Klye Condon Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Manderly is on a suicide mission.He has only come with 300 men to winterfell-(I am certain this number is mentioned at some point and he also says he will travel with a hundred knights when he has hundreds).His mission was to sow dissension and distrust inside the walls of winterfell.By "disappearing" the frey party he has given clear intention that he is a rogue player who has not fully reconciled himself to the frey/bolton rule.He has brought enough men so that he has some sway and it is not too obviously suspicious that he is going openly rebel.But he has contributed to a fractious and poisonous atmosphere.It eventually became so bad that roose ordered both armies outside to effectively slaughter each other.I would say that the boltons have severely underestimated the numbers that the manderleys have raised.They have no idea of the size of his fleet or that he has an experienced respected general like Robett Glover to lead them.The Manderley host at winterfell is quite small and will be overwhelmed by the freys-although they will weaken the frey forces.But they are essentially a sideshow.When rickon is unveiled at white harbour and the direwolf raised is when the "bulk" of the manderley forces will come into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha Steelsong Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I disagree with you about ADWD, but agree about Wyman Manderly. That guy kicks ass, although I have to admit I liked him from the beginning - he always struck me as more cunning than he seems. I really root for the Manderly-Baratheon-Stark alliance I see forming but I'm afraid Targaryens will take the Iron Throne in the end...I don't actually see this alliance being a hinderance to an alliance with Dani down the road. I always thought it was telling that way back when Robb was crowned the justification was that the North had sworn its loyalty to the Targaryens/Dragons and now that the dragons no longer held the Iron Throne so the vow was over. But I've also always had questions as to whether Stannis would cling to the claim that he was the rightful king if there was a Targaryen also claiming the throne. He feels he is the king because he is Robert's true heir and that is the way it is supposed to be, but there was a moment where his own betrayal of the Targaryens is brought up (in either ACOK or ASOS - can't remember at the moment) in his support of Robert and there was genuine hesitation/regret there. Not sure if it means anything but if there was any character in the series that would just stand aside for Dany's claim, I would pick Stannis. Still don't see it as all that likely that there will be no conflict but I just don't see it as as much of a potential obsticle down the road. That and for a lot of reasons I sort of feel like in the end we will be seeing a Stark-Targaryen alliance of sorts against the Others at least. I must admit I had my suspicions about Manderly from AFFC when a skull showed up in KL that supposedly had belonged to Davros. Too much had been made throughout that book about how one skull looks a lot like another and in the earlier books he just seemed too much of a Stark loyalist to ever accept Bolton rule after their betrayal of Robb. Then in the beginning of ADWD there was talk of a wedding with the Freys and I got another chill down my spine that perhaps there was more to the fat man than was initially let on. Glad to see I was rewarded for those thoughts. Since my fondest wish is for House Frey and Bolton to be obliterated and fade into history, I just loved the alliance. But in terms of players in the Game, I have to say that Manderly definitely knows how to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerFelixCulpa Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Manderly is on a suicide mission.He has only come with 300 men to winterfell-(I am certain this number is mentioned at some point and he also says he will travel with a hundred knights when he has hundreds).His mission was to sow dissension and distrust inside the walls of winterfell.By "disappearing" the frey party he has given clear intention that he is a rogue player who has not fully reconciled himself to the frey/bolton rule.He has brought enough men so that he has some sway and it is not too obviously suspicious that he is going openly rebel.But he has contributed to a fractious and poisonous atmosphere.It eventually became so bad that roose ordered both armies outside to effectively slaughter each other.I would say that the boltons have severely underestimated the numbers that the manderleys have raised.They have no idea of the size of his fleet or that he has an experienced respected general like Robett Glover to lead them.The Manderley host at winterfell is quite small and will be overwhelmed by the freys-although they will weaken the frey forces.But they are essentially a sideshow.When rickon is unveiled at white harbour and the direwolf raised is when the "bulk" of the manderley forces will come into play.I like that idea very much, though I do to some extent question whether Manderly himself is on a "suicide" mission. I think he is willing to risk his own life if it means vengeance on the Freys and the Boltons, but I don't think it's strictly self-sacrifice.My own two cents on his plan: sow dissension in Winterfell as below the radar as he can without outright revealing himself as a foe. Wait for an opportunity to turn on the Freys and Boltons at an opportune moment, probably when Stannis shows and the garrison is focused on that. Putting the Manderly forces and the Freys outside may or may not have been part of this plan, I'm not sure he could have predicted Roose would do something like that. Though it may be just as well: gives him a chance to take out some Freys and go over to Stannis. I suspect this is close to what happened. My 'gut' instinct is that Manderly isn't dead just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klye Condon Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I like that idea very much, though I do to some extent question whether Manderly himself is on a "suicide" mission. I think he is willing to risk his own life if it means vengeance on the Freys and the Boltons, but I don't think it's strictly self-sacrifice.My own two cents on his plan: sow dissension in Winterfell as below the radar as he can without outright revealing himself as a foe. Wait for an opportunity to turn on the Freys and Boltons at an opportune moment, probably when Stannis shows and the garrison is focused on that. Putting the Manderly forces and the Freys outside may or may not have been part of this plan, I'm not sure he could have predicted Roose would do something like that. Though it may be just as well: gives him a chance to take out some Freys and go over to Stannis. I suspect this is close to what happened. My 'gut' instinct is that Manderly isn't dead just yet.Well at this point he has just been slashed in the chins with a sword and is lying on the ground in Winterfell surrounded by boltons.His troops have just been ordered outside and will probably all be killed.But none of this matters.He is expendable.The 300 troops are expendable.The Freys and Boltons know at this point that the Manderlys will turn on them.What they don,t realise is how well Lord Manderly has planned for this eventuality.He values vengeance and honour more than he values his life.He knows he is already a dead man.But he has eaten his pies,he has created chaos, his White Harbour forces are bigger than anyone could have imagined and better lead and his son is safe.Once he and his troops at Winterfell have been killed the boltons will think the "cowardly" manderlys are finished.But they are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moss Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Manderly is on a suicide mission.I wonder if this is why he did not move out of striking range of the sword? Did he want to die, letting the other Northern lords know that if you accept an invitation from the Boltons/Freys you will die as they do not honor guest right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Manderly makes it clear that the Lannisters have the gold but he has the silver. He also knows more about the red wedding than the freys and boltons thinks he does. He, like his granddaughter are die hard Stark supporters and he has been building ships for a year and amassing an army including the largest contingent of heavy horse in the north. When it comes down, he will do all to wipe out the Boltons and bring battle to the freys while carrying the banner for his beloved leige lords - The Starks. I love him. I also love the way he laughs and says yeah, I am fat, amusing, funny, yayaya, but I am not stupid. I am rich and I, like the North, do not forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 he could not avoid the Sword because the frey had shoved the table up against him, pinning him where he could not move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyJackal Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I liked how he says....."It could be worse. He could have grown up to be a Frey."*Ziiiiiip* Manderly has shot to the top of my top 10 characters list. Welcome aboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerFelixCulpa Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Well at this point he has just been slashed in the chins with a sword and is lying on the ground in Winterfell surrounded by boltons.His troops have just been ordered outside and will probably all be killed.But none of this matters.He is expendable.The 300 troops are expendable.The Freys and Boltons know at this point that the Manderlys will turn on them.What they don,t realise is how well Lord Manderly has planned for this eventuality.He values vengeance and honour more than he values his life.He knows he is already a dead man.But he has eaten his pies,he has created chaos, his White Harbour forces are bigger than anyone could have imagined and better lead and his son is safe.Once he and his troops at Winterfell have been killed the boltons will think the "cowardly" manderlys are finished.But they are wrong.It was not clear to me that the sword slash was fatal. In fact, I think it was strongly hinted it wasn't. I'll re-read the scene, but if you can supply what you contend makes it clear that he died (and wasn't just put out the gate with the Freys), I'd be appreciative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhaze Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Yes, it clearly wasnt fatal. Im sure painful but Manderly was fine/is fine. Bled alot but 3 chins will do that. But he was being attended to and stitched up while the fighting was going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistrad Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Exactly...injured and bleeding only. No, Lord Manderly lives to eat another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delete this account pls Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Yes, Manderly isn't dead. If Hosteen had dealt a mortal wound to him, nothing would have stopped the bloodshed. Note, his men close up around him. If he was dead, they wouldnt be guarding him, they'd be fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK74Bob Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 "I had no choice but to eat all this excrement and praise the taste!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbor Gold Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Wyman Manderly's .Indeed.Also, I found his wallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snickerers Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Not only is Wyman Manderly awesome, but it seems that awesome bred true in his line if his granddaughters are any indication. The line about the mummer's farce being almost done still sends shivers down my spine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypersmurf Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Don't Mess With Big M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword in the Morning Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Don't Mess With Big M.YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone49 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Cannibalism aside, eating a Frey is risky, surely. Who knows what you could catch?But, I have to reiterate everything that has been said about Manderly in this thread so far. Definitely one of the biggest surprises character-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Snake No. 9 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Y'know all that debate about Sansa, about her ultimate destiny, especially who she'll marry? Well I think Lord Manderly should extend his protection to her and take her as his wife. I'd LOVE to read that wedding night scene. And imagine the feast! Walder a la mode! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_TrueSteel Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 It was not clear to me that the sword slash was fatal. In fact, I think it was strongly hinted it wasn't. I'll re-read the scene, but if you can supply what you contend makes it clear that he died (and wasn't just put out the gate with the Freys), I'd be appreciative.I do not think he is dead at all base on these two statementsRoose "Lord Wyman, gather your white harbor men by the east gate. They shall go forth as well"Hosteen "After i deliver you the head of Stannis Baratheon, I mean to finish hacking off Lord Lard's" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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