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[ADWD Spoilers] Lord Manderly


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The Davos chapters were my favorite, and really showed White Harbor as a Northern Powerhouse. Both Tywin Lannister and Stannis Baratheon gunning for her loyalty and Wyman dealing like a boss the whole way. A dozen petty lords and a hundred landed knights?!?! Wyman is like A Northern Doran Martell, so hungry for vengeance and waiting to commit all that strength at just the right time....

Don't forget he's building a major fleet, his vaults are full of silver, and other lands in the area will fall his lead. He has become one of my favorite lords and stands poised to wreck major havoc.

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Yes, but as fucked up as it sounds, you would eat a Frey pie wouldn't you?

wouldn't want to eat that... I mean Frey seriously?.. it must be some rotten meat :ack: this was what I was worried about the whole time when i figured it out.. should've just let the Freys and the Boltons eat it.. but Manderly looked like he had fun in it..

Murderer yes. But cannibal? Definitely no. Unless you classify Freys as humans. Which will require rewriting a lot of biology books.

:agree:

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Lord Wyman Manderly has been a minor character from as far back as Game of Thrones. He seemed smart enough, but otherwise unimpressive, just some fat old rich guy. But, boy oh boy, did Lord Too-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse step up to the plate in this book. Because beneath all that blubber, Wyman Manderly is a stone cold gangsta. Easily my favourite character in what was a decent, but very flawed book.

"The North remembers" indeed.

I am gangsta. It is known.

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I'm hoping that when Davos returns with Rickon, its with a huge Skagosi army. Add that to Lord Wyman's levies and the hill tribes and the North will be ready to rise again.

My only complaint with Lord Wyman is not having done more for Robb. He had all of these economic resources and manpower, and his king seemed to be hurting for troops. Did Robb have any idea about this great Northern fleet he was building? For shame Lord Wyman, you could have moved on the ironmen at Moat Cailan earlier and saved the war.

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Robb ordered the fleet IIRC. When Manderly came for the harvest festival I think he was told to work together with some other lord who was to provide timber.

I don't remember this at all. Can you give me the book and/or chapter for this. I remember Lord Manderly coming to the harvest festival, but he talked about printing money for Robb and getting the lands of Lady Hornwood (his cousin). He may have said something about building a fleet, but Bran and Maester Luwin were not in the least bit interested. I don't recall anything about Robb sending word to White Harbor for a fleet. I don't seem to recall any word reaching WH except to strengthen its defenses. Lord Wymin may have taken the order to include building the fleet.

He simply could have done more for Robb, even with the fleet.

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Its the second Bran chapter in Clash of Kings.

The Umbers have turned up and appart from the obligatory suggestion that one of them could usefully be married to Lady Hornwood, Whoresbane has come to complain about the numbers of Wildlings coming across the Bay of Seals in small boats, he needs longships and men to man them:

Ser Rodrik pulled at his whiskers. "You have forests of tall pine and old oak. Lord Manderly has shipwrights and sailors in plenty. Together you ought to be able to float enough longships to guard both your coasts."

Rumbling and unkind remarks from Mors Umber, followed by a firm put-down by Ser Rodrik...

"You will work with him, or the king will know the reason why." And to Bran's astonishment, the trucculent Umbers agreed to do as he commanded...

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Its the second Bran chapter in Clash of Kings.

The Umbers have turned up and appart from the obligatory suggestion that one of them could usefully be married to Lady Hornwood, Whoresbane has come to complain about the numbers of Wildlings coming across the Bay of Seals in small boats, he needs longships and men to man them:

Ser Rodrik pulled at his whiskers. "You have forests of tall pine and old oak. Lord Manderly has shipwrights and sailors in plenty. Together you ought to be able to float enough longships to guard both your coasts."

Rumbling and unkind remarks from Mors Umber, followed by a firm put-down by Ser Rodrik...

"You will work with him, or the king will know the reason why." And to Bran's astonishment, the trucculent Umbers agreed to do as he commanded...

Thanks for the quote Black Crow. However, I just want to add that longships to guard the coast are not necessarily the fleet of war galleys being built by Lord Wyman. I do wonder if the Umbers are privy to Lord Wyman's plans? Their forests are said to be some of the most fertile for gathering timber. Its likely that they would want to know what all of their wood was going into.

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On the contrary, building longships "to guard the coast" appears to be an ideal cover for assembling a war fleet without frightening the neighbours.

Agreed on the cover story. I just wonder when the idea of the war fleet came about. This seems to be Lord Wyman acting independently. Just no evidence that Robb had any knowledge of its creation. My whole and only criticism of Lord Wyman is him not doing more to help the king in his time of need. He looks to be a sleeping juggernaut. Why not make all this economic strength and manpower available to Robb, so he could adjust his plans accordingly.

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The problem is he is on the wrong coast, his war fleet can't help vs the Iron Fleet as they would have to sail around the entire continent and through enemy waters to get there.

I am not sure why he didn't take back Moat Cailin though? Or why Rob didn't send a Raven for him to do so, seems like he easily had the manpower for it and is not far either. Definitely seems simpler than the plan Robb actual came up with.

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The problem is he is on the wrong coast, his war fleet can't help vs the Iron Fleet as they would have to sail around the entire continent and through enemy waters to get there.

I am not sure why he didn't take back Moat Cailin though? Or why Rob didn't send a Raven for him to do so, seems like he easily had the manpower for it and is not far either. Definitely seems simpler than the plan Robb actual came up with.

I think there was a quite big ironborn army there. The ironborn have disproportionately big army/fleet (some people claim that they have 20,000-30,000 fighting men), and a sizeable part of that army (a few thousands) was probably holed at Moat Cailin.

That said, if Robb had said so Lord Wyman Manderly could have added the forces of other noble houses (Dustin, Ryswell, Hornwood, Cerwyn, Tallhart...etc.), and gather a force strong enough to take Moat Cailin.

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Moat Cailin is almost invincible approaching from the South, but from the North its rather weak. I am sure Manderly could have handled it. Definitely seems like for plot purposes he simply had to sit it out of the early games, either so he still has alot of Strength left near the end or so that GRRM could disguise the reason why Robb sent the Mormont/Glover team to Greywater Watch.

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It comes down to Robb being in a haste and not really questioning the number of troops being sent by some of his bannermen. We know the Dustins/Ryswells kept the bulk of their forces back. Roose Bolton took a large force, but still has a garrison of 600 men at the Dreadfort. We know the Hill tribes can muster at least 3000 men (likely more). Skagos is bigger than the entire Iron Islands. The Skagosi are bound to have a pretty big force, since they had some success rebelling against the King in the North some time ago. Lord Manderly commands a large city with plenty of manpower. Why was he not asked to send more than 1,200 or so?

I'm surprised the Starks don't keep a better accounting of the forces at their disposal. Each ruling house should take a census every few years.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Am i the only one who feels that Manderly isnt going to lead his forces out to Stannis? He is too fat to sit a horse and just got 3 of his chins sliced, no fit man to lead knights out to battle in a blizzard. If anyone i think it would be his cousin Manfred since i believe Wylis is Castellan Of White Harbor.

So that would mean Wyman would still be in Winterfell when the pink letter was written and what ever happens to Stannis. Which could be a reason why the letter was written by Ramsey not Roose. What that reason is....idk i must ponder more...

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i really think manderly wasnt in a position to support robb a lot:

initially, i think he send most of his forces, and recruited more to refill his levy. hes quite rich, so he would be able to do this with ease.

after the ironborn attacked the motte of cailin, WF and the like he was in no position to take them back. WF was ill garrisoned but had 2 of his beloved princes hostage. the other fortresses were still under threath of the ironborn even when reclaimed and would needlesly bleed his forces, all while he got the order to defend white harbor i think the plan was to build up a force in white harbor, crush the motte of cailin togetehr with the northern army being victorious in the south and proceed to take back and keep the north. manderly has proven to be patient and smart as well, and taking wasnt making the same mistake as theon did: taking lands because you can, without forces to keep them.the red weddig spoiled those plans a bit, and now he directs his recources towards crushing the boltons and hated frey's. everyone underestimated him from the start, and i would put him in my personal list of best players of the game: tyrion, varys, LF, manderly and doran.

i do wonder what the future holds for us. first of all winter is coming, and the others with it. thus no sieges, and assumign they break through the wall the southern lords(freys, lannisters) are going to get seriously hit. second, he's spoiling LF plans of taking the north with the vale, and without the motte as point of defence he also has the forces to do so. thirdly, im seriously wondering about greywater watch. what are they gonna do? howland reed has valuable information about the tower of joy, and was one of neds best friends(perhaps even better than robert). fourthly, the motte of cailin is extremly important, and continously comes back as a olace where you can destroy about eveyrone south.

if i have to make a wild guess, manderly IS on a suicidal mission and somehow manages to kill roose. ramsay takes over, and basicly ruins the frey and boltons by his incompetence. the north rises up, and kick them out of the north, taking the motte and keeping any southerners out of the north. winter comes, the others massacre a lot, especially in the south where the old gods are of no help(save for places like maybe the red keep, storms end, casterly rock, maybe dorne in its entirely, balancing the scales into the favor of the north,

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 year later...

The power and wealth should never be underestimated..

I remember what Jaime told Brienne about White Harbor:

"White Harbor is to King's Landing as my brother Tyrion is to Ser Gregor Clegane"

I know, Jaime is basing the comparison in size, but there might be something far deeper..

Gregor is large and physically powerful but basically hollow, while Tyrion is small but is a true player of the game..

And remember Varys' words..

"Power resides only where men believe it resides. [...] A shadow on the wall, yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow.”

The people who rules King's Landing have underestimated the power of White Habor for a long time.. Deeming its rulers are week and idiotic.. But now, the Mummer's farse is done, and the Lord of White Harbor will unleash all the power he can muster in support of his dispossessed liege lords..

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