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[ADwD Spoilers] All of the little things


Ahri Adaran

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HOLY CRAP! I missed this one. Nice catch.

Actually, the prophecy in question was regarding Drogo's return, and all of the impossible things that will happen before he comes back, one of which is Dany being fertile.

If you'll remember, she bled an awful lot and couldn't remember the last time she'd previously had her period so... I'm thinking miscarriage, which means that her womb "quickened" fulfilling all of the bits of prophecy.

Drogo's returning somehow?

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Am I the only one who thought that Mormont's crow saying "Jon Snow" was a monumental moment? My first thought was of Bran warging into the crow and finding Jon and speaking out. Any thoughts?

I got the feeling that it was Bloodraven trying to warn Jon about the impending danger to his life. The ravens still belong to Bloodraven right? I'm not sure he would appreciate Bran using them no more than Bran would if Bloodraven were to warg into Summer. Also I think Bloodraven has always kept a close eye Jon...behaved somewhat abnormally around him even in the previous books.

Did anyone else notice the bird says "King" quite a lot around Jon when usually it just picks words off the sentence it has just heard? This happened in ACoK too if i recall correctly.

Then we have seen what the bird did during Jon's election to the LC's post. That was a clear cut proof that whoever was warging into the bird wanted Jon to be the LC.

And now we have it saying his full name.

All this can't be coincidence.

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Actually, the prophecy in question was regarding Drogo's return, and all of the impossible things that will happen before he comes back, one of which is Dany being fertile.

If you'll remember, she bled an awful lot and couldn't remember the last time she'd previously had her period so... I'm thinking miscarriage, which means that her womb "quickened" fulfilling all of the bits of prophecy.

Drogo's returning somehow?

Her womb has to quicken and BEAR A LIVING CHILD, though.

While I've never really been attached to this as being prophecy from Mirri, but more like a crappy way of saying "never", I suppose that if it really is a prophecy, the spirit of Drogo could live on within Drogon. After she begins to bleed is when he comes back for her and seems to be listening better to her than she described previously.

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Am I the only one who thought that Mormont's crow saying "Jon Snow" was a monumental moment? My first thought was of Bran warging into the crow and finding Jon and speaking out. Any thoughts?

I got the feeling that it was Bloodraven trying to warn Jon about the impending danger to his life. The ravens still belong to Bloodraven right? I'm not sure he would appreciate Bran using them no more than Bran would if Bloodraven were to warg into Summer. Also I think Bloodraven has always kept a close eye Jon...behaved somewhat abnormally around him even in the previous books.

Did anyone else notice the bird says "King" quite a lot around Jon when usually it just picks words off the sentence it has just heard? This happened in ACoK too if i recall correctly.

Then we have seen what the bird did during Jon's election to the LC's post. That was a clear cut proof that whoever was warging into the bird wanted Jon to be the LC.

And now we have it saying his full name.

All this can't be coincidence.

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-Hodor ate a bit of one of the Night's Watch deserters who betrayed Mormont at Craster's Keep. Lots of cannibalism in this book...

I definitely missed that. When did that happen?

Her womb has to quicken and BEAR A LIVING CHILD, though.

While I've never really been attached to this as being prophecy from Mirri, but more like a crappy way of saying "never", I suppose that if it really is a prophecy, the spirit of Drogo could live on within Drogon. After she begins to bleed is when he comes back for her and seems to be listening better to her than she described previously.

It could be on a less literal level. Drogon is named for Drogo, it doesn't necessarily need to be that his actual spirit has returned to her, just his namesake. The whole bleeding thing could easily be a "Blood for fire, fire for blood" type deal, like what Moqorro was telling Victarion. The act of her bleeding (be it a miscarriage or not) may have ritually bonded her to the dragon, or perhaps she was still bleeding when she mounted Drogon on the very end and her blood seeped into him.

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Jon wanting to be, Daeron I, who was also assassinated when he was a teenager. (I looked it up). I don't think that Jon is dead dead, but it was a nice bit of subtle foreshadowing to how his arc ends.

I also thought that the whole story of Queen Danerys and the Water Garden was a nice bit of foreshadowing.. especially when she says that all children, high and lowborn, look the same. I don't for a minute think that Aegon is the real Aegon. Hence all children, high and lowborn, look the same.

Also, it was fun the way that two prophecies that have been looming large were fulfilled in utterly mundane, unexpected ways.. Dany with Mirri's and Jon with the Azor Ahai.

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I also thought that the whole story of Queen Danerys and the Water Garden was a nice bit of foreshadowing.. especially when she says that all children, high and lowborn, look the same. I don't for a minute think that Aegon is the real Aegon. Hence all children, high and lowborn, look the same.

Also, it was fun the way that two prophecies that have been looming large were fulfilled in utterly mundane, unexpected ways.. Dany with Mirri's and Jon with the Azor Ahai.

Which also makes him the PTWP, so Dany has been a massive red herring for the last four books. His is the song of ice and fire indeed.

Interesting tidbit about Rhaella being in love with some landed knight from the Stormlands. I wonder if that will come up again - a future Dunk & Egg story maybe. Lots of goodies in those.

I got the feeling that it was Bloodraven trying to warn Jon about the impending danger to his life. The ravens still belong to Bloodraven right? I'm not sure he would appreciate Bran using them no more than Bran would if Bloodraven were to warg into Summer. Also I think Bloodraven has always kept a close eye Jon...behaved somewhat abnormally around him even in the previous books.

Ooh. Good theory! As it's quite likely that Jon is the great-great-great-great grandson of Bloodraven's half-brother (crikey...), I wonder if that's a factor in his interest. Maybe he'll be the one to tell Jon his true lineage. We've all been expecting Howland Reed to turn up and explain all, but Bloodraven is now an expositional deus ex machina - as another poster pointed out, if anything happened near a tree or animal, Bloodraven could know about it.

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Which also makes him the PTWP, so Dany has been a massive red herring for the last four books. His is the song of ice and fire indeed.

Interesting tidbit about Rhaella being in love with some landed knight from the Stormlands. I wonder if that will come up again - a future Dunk & Egg story maybe. Lots of goodies in those.

Ooh. Good theory! As it's quite likely that Jon is the great-great-great-great grandson of Bloodraven's half-brother (crikey...), I wonder if that's a factor in his interest. Maybe he'll be the one to tell Jon his true lineage. We've all been expecting Howland Reed to turn up and explain all, but Bloodraven is now an expositional deus ex machina - as another poster pointed out, if anything happened near a tree or animal, Bloodraven could know about it.

Rhaella's lost love might be too late for a Dunk and Egg story. She is forced to marry Aerys in late 259 AL; Dunk and Egg died in 259 AL at Summerhall.

We do know who the lost love is: Ser Bonifer Hasty, also known as Bonifer the Good. He leads the Holy Hundred, and in AFFC, he is given guardianship of Harrenhal.

Someone suggested that Aegon the Unworthy (Bloodraven's dad) was maybe also Rickard Stark's dad. This is impossible as Aegon died well before Rickard was ever born. However, Rickard was born after Bloodraven was sent to the Wall, so if you want a loony theory as to Bloodraven's interest in the Starks-- maybe he is really Rickard's dad.

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Rhaella's lost love might be too late for a Dunk and Egg story. She is forced to marry Aerys in late 259 AL; Dunk and Egg died in 259 AL at Summerhall.

We do know who the lost love is: Ser Bonifer Hasty, also known as Bonifer the Good. He leads the Holy Hundred, and in AFFC, he is given guardianship of Harrenhal.

Nicely put together, thank you for that :) I'd forgotten all about Ser Bonifer.

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Rhaella's lost love might be too late for a Dunk and Egg story. She is forced to marry Aerys in late 259 AL; Dunk and Egg died in 259 AL at Summerhall.

I thought Rhaegar was born during Summerhall, so wouldn't that mean Rhaella's marriage predated Egg's death?

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I thought Rhaegar was born during Summerhall, so wouldn't that mean Rhaella's marriage predated Egg's death?

Good call, I had my dates messed up. Rhaegar was born in 259 AL, so they were probably married the year before, in 258AL. I think I got confused because in Dance it says that Jaehaerys commands them to marry, and so I was thinking he was King when he did that.

Couldn't have been much earlier than 258AL though, Aerys would have been 15 years old in 258AL.

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Good call, I had my dates messed up. Rhaegar was born in 259 AL, so they were probably married the year before, in 258AL. I think I got confused because in Dance it says that Jaehaerys commands them to marry, and so I was thinking he was King when he did that.

Couldn't have been much earlier than 258AL though, Aerys would have been 15 years old in 258AL.

And Rhaella even younger. I wonder what Aegon made of their marriage. He let his own kids marry for love, but whether that was because he thought they'd be happier with a free choice or because he disapproved of Targ incest hasn't been stated (as far as I know).

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And Rhaella even younger. I wonder what Aegon made of their marriage. He let his own kids marry for love, but whether that was because he thought they'd be happier with a free choice or because he disapproved of Targ incest hasn't been stated (as far as I know).

He probably didn't approve, but it was his son's choice to force the marriage between his grandchildren, not his. As Barristan knew of the prophecy Maggy the Frog gave Jaehaerys (about TPWP being born of their line), Aegon probably knew of it as well, and might not have been able to argue with it.

Barristan says that he objected to his son's marriages for love at first, but relented because he had done it himself, so what else could he do?

We don't know exactly when his youngest daughter Rhaelle was born, but my guess is she was born too late to marry any of her elder brothers, which is why she was married to Steffon Baratheon's father instead.

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Which also makes him the PTWP, so Dany has been a massive red herring for the last four books. His is the song of ice and fire indeed.

I'm not sure about that. I know Ran mentioned this but I kind of buy into it as well, that Azor Azai and the PTWP are not the same person.

I'm not sure if there's a prophecy that specifically says they are or if over time it's been interpreted that way or not, but it may be that they're being incorrectly combined by some into one person.

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"and mountains blow in the wind like leaves..."

Just a thought. But is it possible that this refers to the destruction of the Pyramid of Hazkar, much of it into ashes and dust, and the scattering of the masters of the Pyramids of Uhlez and Yherizan by Rhaegal and Viseron?

This could be one of the condition that precedes the return of Drogo's spirit -- and it happens before Drogon returns to Dany and bears her into the (dry) Dothraki sea.

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Ooh. Good theory! As it's quite likely that Jon is the great-great-great-great grandson of Bloodraven's half-brother (crikey...), I wonder if that's a factor in his interest. Maybe he'll be the one to tell Jon his true lineage. We've all been expecting Howland Reed to turn up and explain all, but Bloodraven is now an expositional deus ex machina - as another poster pointed out, if anything happened near a tree or animal, Bloodraven could know about it.

I'm hijacking this idea and turning it into "how Howland Reed keeps tabs on things" (i.e Bloodraven uses his remote viewing abilities, and then communicates with Howland"

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I suppose it's possible that Drogo might've somehow gotten warged into Drogon inside the eggshell, thanks to weird maegi magic, but it really doesn't seem like something that Mirri Maz Duur would've done by intention. If you're going to revenge yourself on the khal who sacked your village, reincarnating him as a dragon = bad idea.

Though at the time, she didn't have any notion that the eggs could hatch, and they were in the tent during her ritual. Hmm. If Drogo got warged into Drogon, could Rhaego have ended up in Rhaegal?

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-It seems that on the Rhoyne they sailed past the same stretch of river twice.

Yeah, what was that all about?

I'm not sure about that. I know Ran mentioned this but I kind of buy into it as well, that Azor Azai and the PTWP are not the same person.

I'm not sure if there's a prophecy that specifically says they are or if over time it's been interpreted that way or not, but it may be that they're being incorrectly combined by some into one person.

It has been a long time but I am pretty sure I recall that Martin himself said this (at a signing or to a fan or somehow--I cannot remember). That is why so many on the board believe the PWWP and AAR are one and the same.

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