[ADwD Spoilers] All of the little things

[The Human Abstract]

Yeah, what was that all about?

It has been a long time but I am pretty sure I recall that Martin himself said this (at a signing or to a fan or somehow--I cannot remember). That is why so many on the board believe the PWWP and AAR are one and the same.

Magic.

There seems to be an increasing amount of it in the series, too. Which I have to say I'm kind of enjoying. Although arguably the story doesn't need any more chaos.

[Steel_Wind]

It has been a long time but I am pretty sure I recall that Martin himself said this (at a signing or to a fan or somehow--I cannot remember). That is why so many on the board believe the PWWP and AAR are one and the same.

That was a contention that never made sense to many people, but was accepted as gospel as a longtime poster on these boards had attributed that statement to GRRM after a reading(So Spake Martin).

The original poster recently admitted that when asked the question as to whether AA and TPwwP meant the same person, George had replied with "no comment", not "yes".

The answer on the boards that George had said "yes" was simply wrong and a lie. The poster admitted his lie about a month ago with great regret.

End result: Your recollection is right, but you missed the intervening disclaimer that George never said any such thing. AA and TPwwP might be the same -- and might not be. It is muddled and it isn't clear.

My personal belief is that the prophecies are referring to two separate people and there has been a muddling of their identities over time.

[MindLikeWarp]

I think when the crow says "Corn", it is saying "Dumb". And when it says "Snow", it means he is being the bastard, and doing something dishonorable. Saying "Jon Snow" means he has gone all the way with breaking vows and honor. According to the Old Gods.

[Guinevere Seaworth]

I somehow missed the fact that Arya warged into a cat. I re-read that passage, and boy that was obvious! :dunce:

[Ahri Adaran]

A bunch of new Easter eggs have been added.

[Miriel]

That was a contention that never made sense to many people, but was accepted as gospel as a longtime poster on these boards had attributed that statement to GRRM after a reading(So Spake Martin).

The original poster recently admitted that when asked the question as to whether AA and TPwwP meant the same person, George had replied with "no comment", not "yes".

The answer on the boards that George had said "yes" was simply wrong and a lie. The poster admitted his lie about a month ago with great regret.

End result: Your recollection is right, but you missed the intervening disclaimer that George never said any such thing. AA and TPwwP might be the same -- and might not be. It is muddled and it isn't clear.My personal belief is that the prophecies are referring to two separate people and there has been a muddling of their identities over time.

Wow. Thanks. I did completely miss that (there has been so much time between Feast and this book that, well, life kind of took over and I stopped paying attention ...).

[tze]

Two things I just noticed:

1) Ghost sniffing Devan---to the point that Devan was really freaked out. We know that Devan's dad is en route to meet up with Ghost's little brother, Shaggydog; could there be a connection?

2) Whoresbane Umber was sent to Oldtown to be a Maester. Even though he never finished his studies, there's no way in hell he can't read or write. Yet every time the Boltons' assembled lords sign something, he makes a mark in the shape of a giant, instead of signing his name like the others. It's possible that this is an Umber thing, but still, it seems odd. It could be that this is his way of rendering everything he does invalid, so that his actions don't haunt the Greatjon when he's freed. My personal theory is that this man isn't even Whoresbane--he's an (illiterate) Umber cousin, pretending to be Whoresbane so that the real Whoresbane (I love typing his name) can plot with his fellow Northmen undetected. Roose doesn't realize the switch because he primarily interacted with the Greatjon, Ramsay never met him, and the other Northern lords are keeping their mouths shut because they're in on it.

[Hodor Hodor]

During the feast with the Frey pie Manderly says Mayhaps

[jack88]

Two things I just noticed:

1) Ghost sniffing Devan---to the point that Devan was really freaked out. We know that Devan's dad is en route to meet up with Ghost's little brother, Shaggydog; could there be a connection?

2) Whoresbane Umber was sent to Oldtown to be a Maester. Even though he never finished his studies, there's no way in hell he can't read or write. Yet every time the Boltons' assembled lords sign something, he makes a mark in the shape of a giant, instead of signing his name like the others. It's possible that this is an Umber thing, but still, it seems odd. It could be that this is his way of rendering everything he does invalid, so that his actions don't haunt the Greatjon when he's freed. My personal theory is that this man isn't even Whoresbane--he's an (illiterate) Umber cousin, pretending to be Whoresbane so that the real Whoresbane (I love typing his name) can plot with his fellow Northmen undetected. Roose doesn't realize the switch because he primarily interacted with the Greatjon, Ramsay never met him, and the other Northern lords are keeping their mouths shut because they're in on it.

I really like 2. I thought the whole giant "signature" thing was weird. I'm not sure about Ghost, he was being pretty suspicious all book, but Devan seems to be a good lad and I don't really think he's not any bad intentions. iirc he "jumped suddenly" because he was startled, which caused Ghost to growl at him.

[tze]

I'm not sure about Ghost, he was being pretty suspicious all book, but Devan seems to be a good lad and I don't really think he's not any bad intentions. iirc he "jumped suddenly" because he was startled, which caused Ghost to growl at him.

Just to clarify: I don't think Ghost was threatening Devan---he just seemed really "interested" in Devan. We know Ghost has a link with Shaggydog. I'm not sure what the timeline is like, whether Davos could realistically have made it to Skagos and found Rickon yet. Is it possible that Ghost was so fascinated by Devan because Devan smells "familiar", because he's smelled Papa Davos through his link with Shaggy?

Although, Ghost seemed drawn to Melisandre, and we know she uses powders hidden in her clothes to manipulate people. It's possible that the scent from some of those powders has clung to Devan (who's hanging out with her), weak enough that humans can't tell but Ghost can.

[delete this account pls]

2) Whoresbane Umber was sent to Oldtown to be a Maester. Even though he never finished his studies, there's no way in hell he can't read or write. Yet every time the Boltons' assembled lords sign something, he makes a mark in the shape of a giant, instead of signing his name like the others. It's possible that this is an Umber thing, but still, it seems odd. It could be that this is his way of rendering everything he does invalid, so that his actions don't haunt the Greatjon when he's freed. My personal theory is that this man isn't even Whoresbane--he's an (illiterate) Umber cousin, pretending to be Whoresbane so that the real Whoresbane (I love typing his name) can plot with his fellow Northmen undetected. Roose doesn't realize the switch because he primarily interacted with the Greatjon, Ramsay never met him, and the other Northern lords are keeping their mouths shut because they're in on it.

Looney theory - The Whoresbane at Winterfell is a fake (a cousin or whatever, as you say), and the real Whoresbane, who were are expressly told is smarter than he looks (he was sent to the Citadel) has snuck away south to scheme a way to free the Greatjon.

[RJW]

I think Shireen and greyscale will be a bigger issue in the future. For the first four books we get no mention of it whatsoever, beyond the fact that part of Shireen's face is marked by it. Now, we learn that a) it's fatal in adults, but a small case in childhood leads to disfigurement and bestows immunity later in life, B) some people consider Shireen and people like her "undead" or somewhat less that fully alive, and c) it's possible for greyscale to work as a plague, destroying a huge swath of a population (Illyrio's second wife Serra.)

So given that the "undead" play a huge role in this series, that cities are using disease as a weapon against each other already, and and that Shireen is immune, I'm convinced this is some sort of Chekov's gun - at some point in the future it will become useful or important that Shireen has immunity, and greyscale/ stone men will be involved in the larger struggle. Does anyone else think this is reasonable?

Hi, btw.

[chrisdaw]

-Who the hell is the Stark woman in Bran's visions hoping that her kids will get vengeance for her?

Had me wondering aswell. Thinking that it may involve the "First rights" practice not having been truly abolished in the North.

[Claireducky]

I think Shireen and greyscale will be a bigger issue in the future. For the first four books we get no mention of it whatsoever, beyond the fact that part of Shireen's face is marked by it. Now, we learn that a) it's fatal in adults, but a small case in childhood leads to disfigurement and bestows immunity later in life, B) some people consider Shireen and people like her "undead" or somewhat less that fully alive, and c) it's possible for greyscale to work as a plague, destroying a huge swath of a population (Illyrio's second wife Serra.)

So given that the "undead" play a huge role in this series, that cities are using disease as a weapon against each other already, and and that Shireen is immune, I'm convinced this is some sort of Chekov's gun - at some point in the future it will become useful or important that Shireen has immunity, and greyscale/ stone men will be involved in the larger struggle. Does anyone else think this is reasonable?

Hi, btw.

I've got a whole thread I started about greyscale because I thought the same things, too.

[delete this account pls]

The three-eyed crow's home/headquarters is a hollow hill beneath a weirwood grove. In ASOS, the Brotherhood Without Banner's primary hideout was a hollow hill, preseumably beneath what used to be a weirwood grove.

[chrisdaw]

Am I the only one who thought that Mormont's crow saying "Jon Snow" was a monumental moment? My first thought was of Bran warging into the crow and finding Jon and speaking out. Any thoughts?

I think it's Bran. I think Bran is more powerful than Bloodraven and so was able to do things whilst the crow that Bloodraven couldn't. Like he was able to tell Theon his name, whereas Bloodraven said it wasn't possible. Quite possibly those times Ned could almost make out a presence or words on the wind whilst praying it was Bloodraven's attempts to communicate. From memory one of the first things Bloodraven tells Bran is he has been watching his father.

As mentioned in the OP, also possible the cat in King's Landing is BR and it was not exactly a coincidence Arya chasing it lead to her overhearing the conversation.

[MultiClassGeek]

Looney theory - The Whoresbane at Winterfell is a fake (a cousin or whatever, as you say), and the real Whoresbane, who were are expressly told is smarter than he looks (he was sent to the Citadel) has snuck away south to scheme a way to free the Greatjon.

He's retreated to Greywater Watch to hang out with Howland Reed and his gang of plotters.

[MultiClassGeek]

"and mountains blow in the wind like leaves..."

Just a thought. But is it possible that this refers to the destruction of the Pyramid of Hazkar, much of it into ashes and dust, and the scattering of the masters of the Pyramids of Uhlez and Yherizan by Rhaegal and Viseron?

My thought too

This could be one of the condition that precedes the return of Drogo's spirit -- and it happens before Drogon returns to Dany and bears her into the (dry) Dothraki sea.

"Womb will quicken" - Her first period in a while would indicate a return to fertility

But what if the "Return of Drogo's spirit" refers to Joqho and his khalasar finding Dany by the river? We know Dany doesn't like him, of course, but he's the first link back to the Dothraki that she's seen in a while.

[Claireducky]

My thought too

"Womb will quicken" - Her first period in a while would indicate a return to fertility

But what if the "Return of Drogo's spirit" refers to Joqho and his khalasar finding Dany by the river? We know Dany doesn't like him, of course, but he's the first link back to the Dothraki that she's seen in a while.

It's been bandied around that it wasn't just a period-- that she was pregnant and the berries she ate gave her a miscarriage.

[Asha—Not Yara!]

The appendix confirms that Lanna is the Sailor's Wife's daughter. Apparently whores go to Braavos and Tyrion has a trueborn daughter.

I still think it makes FAR more sense for Lanna to be a bastard daughter of Gerion Lannister who was lost at sea (or heck maybe trueborn if he married foolishly in the same fashion Tyrion did Tysha). Even IF Tyrion happened to get Tysha pregnant, after what she was put through by them, I can't imagine her wistfully pining away for her husband and naming her daughter after his family.