[ADwD Spoilers] Winterfell murder mysteries.

[Erodite]

Wylla the killa did for Little Walder Frey!!

[hotweaselsoup]

Remember his conversation with Davos about guest gifts (thus making the Freys his guests no longer afterwards)?

I think he even said something about offering them palFREYS as gifts?

I hope the Freys were alive long enough to watch as choice bits of themselves were sliced off and put into the pies.

[khalakama]

I'm sure people have mentioned this already, but in many ways Theon is a mini Hodor minus a member to make Osha blush. "My name is Reek. It rhymes with..." vs "Hodor." Bran wargs Hodor, and Ramsay and everyone else wargs Theon - kinda (which may partly explain Ramsay's obsession with him and desire to get him back).

I have been trying to find a quote about Theon talking about Hodor from AGot. He makes a smart ass remark about Hodor knowing his name. I don't have me epub copy handy, and I almost stabbed my eyes out trying to find it in my hard copy.

[Galen M]

I could see a split personality Theon killing Big Walder (who was actually small, young and weak)

Except it was Little Walder (who was actually big, young, and strong) who got killed.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Wylla the killa did for Little Walder Frey!!

Certainly she had motive. Means and opportunity might be harder to come by.

[PogosMom]

Remember when Theon and the spearwives were in the kitchen waiting for the water to heat and he realized that they were 'doing it all wrong' that they were not teasing the kitchen staff, they were waiting too quietly and would be found out? Seems like he thought that they weren't quite up to the job they were trying to pull off./

Also, remember how Theon was thinking about the beautiful Stallion he had, and how it had been brutilized and killed by the Boltons? And then there's discussion about how someone had pulled down the stables on top of all the horses? I'm thinking that might have been Theon avenging his horses death .....

[Tyroshi Sellsword]

Also, remember how Theon was thinking about the beautiful Stallion he had, and how it had been brutilized and killed by the Boltons? And then there's discussion about how someone had pulled down the stables on top of all the horses? I'm thinking that might have been Theon avenging his horses death .....

The weight of the snow collapsed the roof onto the horses. There is no way Theon could have pulled down a stable roof.

[Yollo]

I got the sense that when Bran spoke to Theon through the Godswood he also warged him off camera. Since Theon was so delusional I figured he wouldn't even remember being under control and so Bran (controling Theon) might be the mystery murderer.

The only problem with that theory is that I never got the impression that Bran was clever enough to do something that complicated. He doesn't strike me as a cunning strategist (not yet anyhow.)

[Lummel]

He has 6 spearwives with him, some of whom don't seem as canny. Ryswell's man was on the wall-- he saw something he shouldn't have and was pushed. They did need to get over the wall, they had rope to do it, after all, and would have been scouting at night. Yellow Dick was a pig of a man, I imagine that his murder was in response to a rape attempt. What's so hard to fathom about these motivations? They are much less far-fetched than "Theon is Tyler Durden," for which there is no evidence whatsoever, IMO. We do see Mance & Co all but admitting to it. It's not going to be written out in black and white, but it's close enough for me.

My problem with the motivation is that it looks Keystone cops, we've got potentially up to five murders that we have to attribute to clumsiness while they are trying to find out how to get out of Winterfell, thats the Ryswell man, the Frey squire, a Flint crossbowman, Yellow Dick.

But it's a castle - there are two ways out, through the gates or over the walls. Plus we know that they know that Theon is good source of information on how to get in or out and they are pressing him for information even before he murders start.

Even the Ryswell man, really they needed to kill him - they weren't able to smooth things over with a kiss, a cuddle, a squeeze in the right place and the promise of something better in the warm? And why scout? It's a wall, they know it's a wall, they know they need rope to get down, all you need is the longest length of rope you get way with wearing under your clothes without looking like Michelin Man. Any why go overboard on Yellow Dick? We know spearwives can look after themselves and if things get really out of hand - stab him. Why anything more than that?

[Tyroshi Sellsword]

Even the Ryswell man, really they needed to kill him - they weren't able to smooth things over with a kiss, a cuddle, a squeeze in the right place and the promise of something better in the warm?

Well, what if it was Mance he saw? I bet a smooch would have made things worse.

And why scout? It's a wall, they know it's a wall, they know they need rope to get down, all you need is the longest length of rope you get way with wearing under your clothes without looking like Michelin Man.

Figuring out which part of the wall lets you over into the least dangerous spot?

Any why go overboard on Yellow Dick? We know spearwives can look after themselves and if things get really out of hand - stab him. Why anything more than that?

Probably just b/c it was well-deserved, and it would freak people out.

Look, if you're not convinced, you're not convinced. I feel pretty sure that I've got what Martin was trying to depict, but I feel like nothing I'm going to say is going to convince anyone anymore. Bottom line, I want to feel like Theon is changing for the better, not into some fractured psyche who kills random people, especially children. I guess the next book will show if my hopes are justified.

[Balerion the Cat]

Obviously there are no evidences in this book that can confirm one theory or another, but my speculation is that Little Walder has been killed by Big Walder, as suggested by others.

I only base this speculation on:

- Big Walder changing his behaviour and not liking anymore Ramsay, while Little Walder is still fond of his cruelty. To me this means Big Walder cannot stomach anymore the ongoing stuff and, probably, Little Walder is bullying him;

- Little Walder coming in the hall with blood on his hands. Now, Big Walder ended in a snowdrift, so even if Little Walder did find him, he probably should have found his blood frozen or soaked in the snow = no red hands. I think the one with red hands is the stabber.

[Lord Godric]

The one thing that doesn't make sense to me about the "red hands" bit is that if Little Walder had been dead for so long that he was in a snow drift and his blood had frozen - what had Big Walder been doing this whole time with blood on his hands? Just casually walking around Winterfell? Not bothering to clean it off?

[Whatever]

The one thing that doesn't make sense to me about the "red hands" bit is that if Little Walder had been dead for so long that he was in a snow drift and his blood had frozen - what had Big Walder been doing this whole time with blood on his hands? Just casually walking around Winterfell? Not bothering to clean it off?

Well, Big Walder likes to hang out with Ramsay, of all people.

Which means he is on a Bowen Marsh level of stupidity... at least. Maybe he's even more dumb.

[Suttree]

Sorry if this has been mentioned but do we know how many swords are missing in total?

[Whatever]

Sorry if this has been mentioned but do we know how many swords are missing in total?

four, if i'm not mistaken

brandon's (brand has it)

rickard's (osha has it)

ned's (meera has it)

some old king's (hodor took it)

[Red Dirt]

four, if i'm not mistaken

brandon's (brand has it)

rickard's (osha has it)

ned's (meera has it)

some old king's (hodor took it)

Basically right, but in the last Bran chapter in ACoK: Osha has Ned's and Meera Rickard's.

[Tyroshi Sellsword]

The one thing that doesn't make sense to me about the "red hands" bit is that if Little Walder had been dead for so long that he was in a snow drift and his blood had frozen - what had Big Walder been doing this whole time with blood on his hands? Just casually walking around Winterfell? Not bothering to clean it off?

I don't think it would take long for blood to freeze in this cold. Theon mentions that several people have gotten frostbite, one guy lost an ear... so I imagine BW killed LW, dragged him to the snow bank, shoved him in, and waited a little while to get help. I mean, what other reason does BW have to have blood caked on his hands and spray on his clothes? We are given no explanation for it except the frozen, butchered corpse.

[Peter Woolshirt]

Besides the bloody hands, I think there's another reason to suspect that Big Walder killed Little Walder. I think the two most likely possibilities are that it's a set-up by somebody hoping to provoke dissent, or that Big Walder is guilty. So what does Big Walder say when asked about Little Walder? "I told him not to go out alone, but he said he had to find a man who owed him silver." Not to meet him, but to find him. Unless Big Walder is misquoting, this means it couldn't have been a set-up, and he was just murdered by somebody who owed him money. That seems unlikely (unless maybe Little Walder told his debtor that he was going to set Ramsey on him).

[ThinkerX]

Slightly more prosaic explanation:

When Boltons crew turned up in Winterfell, the place was not completely empty - a few dozen squatters had set up shop in the place. These fellows were all suposed to have been rounded up, put to work, and then put to death...but care to bet that a couple of them - say former Winterfell servants or guardsmen knew enough or were canny enough to avoid being caught? And *might* have known right where the crypts were? And then sort of 'blend in with the other servants running around - several different factions, remember. If a Frey says he looks unfamiliar, the guy tells him he's with Boltons bunch - ect. Also, Winterfell is *big* - lots and lots of hiding places. Seems to me that somebody like this would be a prime candidate for the murderer.

Also, if the good Maester were still alive, then the squatters - or at least some of the squatters - must have known this.