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[ADwD Spoilers] Jon and Dany character devolution


Damocles

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Jon was such a great character that even if he got irritating with the Davos and Melisandre stuff, I still did not hate him. Now Daenerys on the other hand, GRRM exposed a side of her,the teenage side that lusts. i was okay with that since it was understandable she wanted some action but the part i hated was the way she doubted herself in her decisions as queen. This is the woman who ordered her dragon to burn her enemies with a sweet word, it happened in an instant but it was the coolest thing she has done among all the other great stuff she did before. Now this indecision, uncertainty and taking a husband were bad decisions. She should have trusted herself more. I pitied her dragons. Sorry but i was totally fine with the rumors of them eating kids and all, because I refused to believe that part. Dragons are as important to her as direwolves are for the Starks. I'm glad she flew off with Drogo.

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I liked the Jon chapters. I am not annoyed with his character.

Now Dany... In A Game of Thrones she was tolerable. I kind of felt sorry for her. In each following novel, my opinion of her got worse and worse. Now I want to see her eaten by her dragon.

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This may seem like armchair psychology and I don't want to generalize reader's views but I think the "devolution" of Jon and Dany comes from the radical change in role for both these characters. Both of them have gone from downtrodden underdogs to positions of power and prestige in a short amount of time.

We were used to Jon being the poor bastard nobody loved (who just happens to have a bigass direwolf). He got to go on adventures in the Haunted Forest and bang his exotic wildling girlfriend, then comes back to the Wall and lead his NW brothers in battle, kicking wildling ass. For the cherry on top he gets elected LC over a**hole Janos Slynt. Awesome. Except then he wasn't having adventures anymore, he was growing distant from his friends and he always making decisions--difficult, boring decisions. Instead of making daring escapes from the wildlings, he's planning how he's going to feed thousands of them through winter. That's not nearly as cool.

Dany is probably a worse case. She was the little orphan girl before, being controlled by her cruel brother. Then she was the wandering princess with her dragons in tow, visiting exotic lands and escaping dangers. Then she conquered Meereen and became a queen. A bureaucrat. A pampered brat. No doubt people started seeing shades of Cersei and Sansa Stark in character after that. Her city was out of control. She was lusting over a jerk sellsword. She had her dragons chained just because they might be killing children...the vile bitch. To think she called herself "Mother of Dragons".

Leaders--that is, people in real positions of authority and power, not leaders of a small band of misfits--are more difficult to make heroic. GRRM made Dany and Jon such characters in ADWD and I believe he had to sacrifice some of what made them more appealing before. Maybe he didn't realize that would happen, or maybe this was meant to prove they aren't suited for their current roles, but whatever the case it's natural it rubbed some readers the wrong way.

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Anyone noticed both characters are breaking apart narratively, too?

Jon's narrative breaks apart only in his last chapter, which is full of inconsistencies and narrative holes, many of which have been pointed out in this thread and others. I don't think he suffered any kind of character devolution, in fact, this is the first book I am starting to develop some love for his character. The reason he seems such a dumbass in his last chapter is because we still don't know what truly happened. I am sure he didn't read the 'original' letter. And two things we can be sure of: 1. He is NOT going south to rescue Mance Rayder. Nothing in the text indicates he does. Nothing in his speech indicates this is the reason the wildlings go 'mad'. 2. He is NOT going south to rescue Arya. The letter proves that she escaped, and that she escaped such a long time ago that Ramsay assumes she has already arrived at the Wall! He would not send an army to look for her, but some rangers.

Jon has some hidden agenda, and GRRM does a good job in making his character evolve.

GRRM does the exact opposite thing with Dany: He does avery good job in deconstructing her character. This goes so far as to filling all her chapters with inconsistencies and moral ambiguity. There are little hints of madness all over her. She is extreme superficial, and she tends to be cruel. But as she and all her followers look at her as the hero, we don't notice at first. We mereley wonder about her decisions, her Daario-crush, her annoying aimlessness. But two examples show that her self-image is not what it is supposed to be:

1. Dany is accused several times of having laughed at Quentyn. Everyone denies that, Barriston even says she would NEVER do that. Yet she DID! She laughed at him, Quentyn blushed, then she explained the frog-story in a language he didn't understand, and all the time wished the pretty boy next to Quentyn was the prince. If this is not stupid, cruel, and overall the sign of a bad ruler who doesn't care about her appearance to her court, I don't know. It is explicitly stated that no one in the room knows what to make of it.

2. After going out and washing some Astapori-feet, making her appear like the slave-freeing saint once more, she has a luxurious long bath. When she is unhappy, she makes her little 'slave' tell her about the brother she just lost to help her find some SLEEP. She is so self-absorbed, she doesn't even notice there is cruelty in this.

Dany is going into mad-ruler-modus right now, and has been for a long time. There is more evidence: She is constantly feeling threatened and constantly repeats her three betrayals (remember Aerys?), yet she trusts the most suspicious and/or inept people (remember Aerys?). She allows torture, and she consents to the torture of innocents, even children, when threatened. Her dragons are nothing but a mirror of her inner state. And Barriston is constantly remembering that Mad Aerys was quite an apt and sane ruler when first he met him.

So either GRRM is doing some very nice and clever build up here, or all of this is due to bad writing.

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