[ADwD Spoilers] Varys

[Aelinor]

I think Dany must have been regarded as inconsequential at first since it seemed almost inevitable that she would not be able to withstand the Dothraki life. But on the other hand why she was gifted the 3 dragons eggs? This is a still a mystery to me. Surely Aegon as the nurtured well rounded Targaryen kid should have been given them?

I think, assuming Aegon is the real Aegon, they didn't want him to die trying to hatch eggs like his previous namesake. According to the Dunk & Egg novellas, Egg was a well-rounded Targaryen who died trying to bring dragons back to life. If Dany is expendable, no harm, no foul if she fails.

[Huck]

There have been several threads speculating about Varys' ultimate goal and intentions.

When asked about it, he often gives "For the realm" as an answer, and some people believe that what he really wants is a strong, stable, peaceful, united Westeros, while others (myself included) don't think so.

But there is (nearly?) always a second phrase to go with "for the realm" that hasn't gotten the same kind of attention yet: "for the children": From the epilogue of ADWD:

Varys: "Ser Kevan. Forgive me if you can. I bear you no ill wil. This was not done from malice. It was for the realm. For the children."

This could, going along with the "stable realm" hypothesis, simply mean that he wants the next generation to have a long, propsperous, peaceful life.

But it could also mean something more specific: there could be a very select few children he is thinking about: either (fake?) Aegon and Daenerys, or a larger group of children that he grooms; and that could also explain his speech to Kevan that seemed to be addressed to someone else: it could be a kind of pep talk for the hiding children.

This is not quite thought through yet -- but has anyone else noticed this? How did you read Varys' "house words": "For the children"?

[Jackie of Tarth]

if the young griff isn't a targ, why would varys lie to kevan about it? from what varys was saying to kevan, he's been waiting to put a targ on the iron throne ever since the mad king was killed.

i'm not sure about the little ones but i have no reason to think they're wargs.

I am not sure if this has been brought up, but isnt kings landing overrun with cats. And hasn't this same giant, old cat been referenced in like 2 books-Arya chasing it in GoT and King Tommen in AFFC?. Why couldn't his spies be wargs that go into the cats? It would be easier for them to get all this info and go unnoticed- who would guess a cat would be spying? I don't think he'd bring up a random cat twice if it didn't mean anything. That would be just too random.

[Lord Varys]

Varys has to have a real connection to Westeros and/or to the Targaryens. He has to be related to them (or the Blackfyres, it makes no matter). If he is not, it makes just no sense at all that he would invest so much into the stability of a Realm he is actually not connected to. Is a eunuch from Lys, no Westerosi by birth. So why the hell should he care about 'the children' there and not those in, say, Pentos, Braavos, Lys, or Volantis?

[alguien]

Varys has to have a real connection to Westeros and/or to the Targaryens. He has to be related to them (or the Blackfyres, it makes no matter). If he is not, it makes just no sense at all that he would invest so much into the stability of a Realm he is actually not connected to. Is a eunuch from Lys, no Westerosi by birth. So why the hell should he care about 'the children' there and not those in, say, Pentos, Braavos, Lys, or Volantis?

I've long thought this as well. Would explain why his junk was used in a spell, for there is power in a king's blood.

Now that long lost Targaryen's are popping up, it doesn't seem so far-fetched.

[BoldAsYouPlease]

Varys: "Ser Kevan. Forgive me if you can. I bear you no ill wil. This was not done from malice. It was for the realm. For the children."

This could, going along with the "stable realm" hypothesis, simply mean that he wants the next generation to have a long, propsperous, peaceful life.

But it could also mean something more specific: there could be a very select few children he is thinking about: either (fake?) Aegon and Daenerys, or a larger group of children that he grooms; and that could also explain his speech to Kevan that seemed to be addressed to someone else: it could be a kind of pep talk for the hiding children.

This is not quite thought through yet -- but has anyone else noticed this? How did you read Varys' "house words": "For the children"?

"For the realm. For the children". Assuming the children are Aegon and Daenerys, those two parts obviously are at odds with each other - the realm bleeds as Varys works to destabilize it further for the children of Rhaegar and Aerys. Maybe the Targaryens are Varys' equivalent of Littlefinger's Catelyn/Sansa blind spot - he may really be blind enough to believe a Targaryen restoration is worth the death and destruction to come.

But then Selmy believes Varys sought to poison Aerys' mind against Rhaegar, and Varys actively spied on Daenerys and reported her pregnancy to Robert, triggering an assassination attempt. Neither indicates any great love by Varys for the Targaryens, so why should he think Aegon will make a great king? Just because he's learned to mend a net and catch a fish?

But no other candidates for "the children" make any sense at all without a lot more info from Martin. His little birds? The Children of the Forest?

[Lord Crispy of Bacon]

Speaking of Essos, is it winter there now, too? Or is the whole multiple-year season thing just in Westeros?

[Lord Varys]

Boldasyouplease,

He means 'the children' when he says 'the children'. The innocents who suffer the most 'when you high lords play your game of thrones'. He says as much to Ned way back in AGoT. It was also rather evident that Varys really cares about innocent victims. He cares about Gendry, and Rhaenys, and Barra. He even seemed to care about Edric, being the guy in charge of the King's bastards, and the one who sent the boy all his gifts...

ADwD really is an eye-opener to a degree to Varys's motivation. He intends to give the Realm a good King, a King who cares, and who knows what it means to be a helpless commoner in a world where people suffer if their kings do not care.

Obviously he cannot set the world aright for all eternity. But he intends to his best for the next century or so. Jaehaerys's I peace lasted through his reign, and through Viserys's I reign as well, I'm pretty sure Varys is aiming at a similar era of peace.

We have no idea if that's going to work, but essentially Aegon is likely more suited to be a King of peace (if he wins the war) than Daenerys after her epiphany that her purpose in life is to bring death. With that attitude one can only hope that she is never going to reach Westeros at all.

In Essos is winter as well. The canals of Braavos are starting to freeze. If they had no long seasons it would make no sense at all that there are still people living in Westeros north of the Mountains of Dorne.

But I assume winter is not that much a problem in Essos, as it is has no regions nearly as far north as Westeros. Braavos and Lorath are as far north as the Eyrie and the Fingers.

[Sand Viper]

Also, about those dark eyed children with their daggers, should I know who they are? They seemed a bit creepy just to be his spies o_O

Maybe the children are the Others? Remember that it was an extremely cold night in Kings Landing - cold enough for the Others to be abroad?

When Varys talks of children he is talking of the Others. ...

[Lord Godric]

Boldasyouplease,

He means 'the children' when he says 'the children'. The innocents who suffer the most 'when you high lords play your game of thrones'. He says as much to Ned way back in AGoT. It was also rather evident that Varys really cares about innocent victims. He cares about Gendry, and Rhaenys, and Barra. He even seemed to care about Edric, being the guy in charge of the King's bastards, and the one who sent the boy all his gifts...

ADwD really is an eye-opener to a degree to Varys's motivation. He intends to give the Realm a good King, a King who cares, and who knows what it means to be a helpless commoner in a world where people suffer if their kings do not care.

Obviously he cannot set the world aright for all eternity. But he intends to his best for the next century or so. Jaehaerys's I peace lasted through his reign, and through Viserys's I reign as well, I'm pretty sure Varys is aiming at a similar era of peace.

We have no idea if that's going to work, but essentially Aegon is likely more suited to be a King of peace (if he wins the war) than Daenerys after her epiphany that her purpose in life is to bring death. With that attitude one can only hope that she is never going to reach Westeros at all.

In Essos is winter as well. The canals of Braavos are starting to freeze. If they had no long seasons it would make no sense at all that there are still people living in Westeros north of the Mountains of Dorne.

But I assume winter is not that much a problem in Essos, as it is has no regions nearly as far north as Westeros. Braavos and Lorath are as far north as the Eyrie and the Fingers.

I certainly agree with your interpretation of Varys' motives. He is working for the benefit of the realm and for all the innocents who suffer, but does anyone think that this plan with Aegon may backfire and the realm will suffer more? I believe that Aegon is the "mummer's dragon" and the lie that Dany needs to slay. If that is so it seems like we are in for another civil war pitting Targaryen against Targaryen. If it comes down to that wouldn't the realm just suffer more? I think Varys wanted Aegon to marry Daeneys to avoid this risk, but obviously that didn't happen. So, what now? What will Varys now do to prevent more bloodshed of innocent because of the game of thrones.

[freshandclean]

I certainly agree with your interpretation of Varys' motives. He is working for the benefit of the realm and for all the innocents who suffer, but does anyone think that this plan with Aegon may backfire and the realm will suffer more? I believe that Aegon is the "mummer's dragon" and the lie that Dany needs to slay. If that is so it seems like we are in for another civil war pitting Targaryen against Targaryen. If it comes down to that wouldn't the realm just suffer more? I think Varys wanted Aegon to marry Daeneys to avoid this risk, but obviously that didn't happen. So, what now? What will Varys now do to prevent more bloodshed of innocent because of the game of thrones.

And that book should have been titled a Dance of Dragons...

[Mark3]

Varys has to have a real connection to Westeros and/or to the Targaryens. He has to be related to them (or the Blackfyres, it makes no matter). If he is not, it makes just no sense at all that he would invest so much into the stability of a Realm he is actually not connected to. Is a eunuch from Lys, no Westerosi by birth. So why the hell should he care about 'the children' there and not those in, say, Pentos, Braavos, Lys, or Volantis?

I find it hard to believe a guy who takes child slaves and cuts their tongues out does anything "for the children."

Varys is a liar. He is not doing anything for the good of the realm. He is not doing anything for the children. Whatever his end game is, I'm sure the primary beneficiary will be Varys.

[Raging Bear]

I have a feeling that Varys was trying to get Aerys II replaced with Rhaegar, until he got himself killed on the Trident. After that he had to scramble to salvage the situation.

Whether or not you believe that Robert's rule was prosperous or ruinous, It would have been obvious that the realm would take a down turn when Joffrey became king.

And so Varys went into action, harvesting the Targaryan seeds he had smuggled out and planted in Essos. Littlefinger may have been responsible for the Stark v. Lannister trigger, but that doesn't mean Varys could used the situation to his advantage.

Westeros needs to be under incompetent leadership for it to be successfully invaded. Everything is set until Joffrey is murdered (Tyrell, Dorne?), putting pliable Tommen on the throne with Tywin standing behind him. Varys thinks fast and puts Tyrion in a position to take Tywin out,but forces himself out of court in the process.

Aegon is now on his way across the Narrow Sea, about to stake his claim when suddenly, with unfortunate timing, Cercei manages to stupid herself out of the regency, leaving capable Kevan in charge. Now, Kevan's peaceful rule may have only lasted a few years before the Tyrell's ambition overcame their patience, but Varys's pieces are already moving and he can't call them back.

Hence, Varys has to take Kevan out. For the good of the realm.

[Lord Varys]

Varys has nothing to live for but the Realm or 'the children'. He has no family, no chance to get a family, no lands, no titles, and most obviously no interest at all to acquire wealth or status. So what could he possibly want besides 'the good of the Realm'. The reason why he works with a (possible) Targaryen is still not revealed, but I believe that he was sincere about what he intends to accomplish with his grand scheme.

To the Slayer of Lies thing:

This prophecy complex refers to Daenerys as Azor Ahai/promised prince, her special role as a savior. The Shadowless King with blue eyes (Stannis) and the cloth dragon are false hopes. But this does not necessarily mean that Aegon is no genuine Targaryen - after all, Stannis is a genuine Baratheon! - it merely means that Aegon is not the promised savior who is going to deal with the Others.

Neither Connington nor Aegon consider Daenerys their enemy, so I'd guess there won't be a second Targaryen civil war. Aegon will cause more chaos and trouble in Westeros, but I really hope Dany is going to come to save his ass rather than to stab him in the back.

[Podrick + Arya = Win]

Varys wants to destroy magic. He said so to Ned in AGOT. Maybe he's more involved with the Citadel than one might think.

[reiver]

I considered that but i got the impression that the citadel was anti-targ. The Lady dustin bit about the Maesters does seem to point towards the citadel engineering the criteria for a successful rebellion and an end to targaryen rule.

[Zeromus]

Varys wants to destroy magic. He said so to Ned in AGOT. Maybe he's more involved with the Citadel than one might think.

It was Tyrion, not Ned.

[Skadhi]

I am not sure if this has been brought up, but isnt kings landing overrun with cats. And hasn't this same giant, old cat been referenced in like 2 books-Arya chasing it in GoT and King Tommen in AFFC?. Why couldn't his spies be wargs that go into the cats? It would be easier for them to get all this info and go unnoticed- who would guess a cat would be spying? I don't think he'd bring up a random cat twice if it didn't mean anything. That would be just too random.

I think that old tom cat was Princess Rhaenys' cat. His name was Balerion, and someone mentioned that he's the real king of the castle.

[Podrick + Arya = Win]

I am not sure if this has been brought up, but isnt kings landing overrun with cats. And hasn't this same giant, old cat been referenced in like 2 books-Arya chasing it in GoT and King Tommen in AFFC?. Why couldn't his spies be wargs that go into the cats? It would be easier for them to get all this info and go unnoticed- who would guess a cat would be spying? I don't think he'd bring up a random cat twice if it didn't mean anything. That would be just too random.

It's funny you mention this, because Arya also warged into a cat when she was 'blind' to spy on the Kindly Man.

But Varys hates magic, so I'd doubt he'd keep skinchangers with him.

[Uruk-hai]

I'm probably way late to the party on this one, but I recently realized that there are at least two ways to interpret "mummer's dragon".

1. That Aegon is a fake Targ (which is how I always read it and for the longest time seemed to be the prevailing wisdom).

Couldn't it also mean:

2. That the "mummer" is Varys and that Aegon is "his" (real) dragon (IOW, that Varys has been seeing to his upbringing)?