Budj Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I don't know about this. I doubt it, personally....the blood could also be a CotF's blood...or as another poster suggested weirwood sap and acorn paste...I mean it's possible...I just think Martin isn't done with Jojen and Meera yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolene Brown Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 There is a lot about the tone and vocabular of the chapter that makes this theory unnervingly plausible to me, but it's hard for me to believe Jojen and Meera would have been so insistent about Bran going to the cave if they knew that jojen would die there as a blood magic sacrifice. To me, the impression I got was that they thought something there would help Jojen avoid his fate, and now that they are there, they see that that is not so, and they are both bitter, and while Meera still wants to fight, Jojen has given up. But the fate must lie elsewhere, if they thought going to the three-eyed crow would help originally, which it appears that they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentyn the Blazed Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Didn't Jojen dream himself going to the isle of faces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushido Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miriel Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I had the sense (from what Meera said) that Jojen does see his own end, but that his end was somewhere besides the cave. My sense was that it was at Greywater Watch, as she says something along the lines of "he wants to go home, he won't even try to fight his fate" which, to me, implies his fate is at home, not there in creepy cave-ville. I don't have the book right at hand though so may be mis-remebering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaramyrSixchins Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 There's enough to support this theory that I'm leaning toward plausible. While I shudder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushido Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 But,he also saw Bran's and Rickon's death. He chose to see it differently. Meera has great point in demanding him to fight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Hunter Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Meera couldve saved a lot of grief and told Bran what Jojen is seeing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mummer's Arse Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I bought the recipe book 'A Feast of Ice and Fire' and page 75 is 'Jojen Paste.' My question is, why would that recipe be included in the book, which was forwarded by GRRM himself, if Jojen wasn't made into a paste in the actual story? For those who are interested, to make Jojen Paste, you need three acorns, the bark of a weirwood tree, golden tree sap (a generous dollop) and finally half a Jojen, and then you need to mix vigourously for 10 minutes. Leave to set for 30 mins. Serves one aspiring green seer or four as a light snack. The book is available on amazon for £17.89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miriel Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I bought the recipe book 'A Feast of Ice and Fire' and page 75 is 'Jojen Paste.' My question is, why would that recipe be included in the book, which was forwarded by GRRM himself, if Jojen wasn't made into a paste in the actual story?For those who are interested, to make Jojen Paste, you need three acorns, the bark of a weirwood tree, golden tree sap (a generous dollop) and finally half a Jojen, and then you need to mix vigourously for 10 minutes. Leave to set for 30 mins. Serves one aspiring green seer or four as a light snack. The book is available on amazon for £17.89Half a Jojen? But all agree it was Jojen blood in the Jojen paste, not Jojen himself. After all, it's paste, not filet of Jojen!Seriously though, you raise an interesting point. I've not seen this recipe book. But while I don't think George RR Martin himself looks at message boards, Martin's wife is a member of this message board and posts on occasion I believe. So it is not impossible that she has read the various theories re: Jojen paste and the inclusion of that recipe is a bit of a tease.I don't see him giving away even minor plot points in a cookbook, let alone something as major as offing Jojen and serving him up to Bran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolene Brown Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 GRRM is such a troll. God. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissLadyDuncan Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Where is it explicity stated that Bran has to stay in the bowels of the weirwood with the children forever? All Bloodraven said whatehat he would need years of training and that he will never walk but can learn to fly. Bloodraven had a long life as Kings Hand and then NW Commander and he was known for his sorcery then. He is wedded to the tree now to extend his life. At some point Bran will be able to leave the weirwood and perhaps be Lord of Winterfell if he wants. When he is old or needs to train his replacement he would return and be wedded permanently to his own weirwood to extend his life.I completely agree with dragons dancing on this one. I read all the dunk and egg novellas out so far, and it seems to me that Bryndon Rivers was already, at the point Dunk and Egg take place (when he is the hand of the King), "the three eyed crow" with a "thousand eyes and one" they repeat that phrase in the novellas so often as well as in ice and fire that I'm almost positive that bloodraven already at the point in the novellas, knew he was a greensear. They also make refernces in Dunk and Egg that it seems noone can ever get anything past Bloodraven no matter where he is. How else could that be, unless he was in fact already warging into ravens, trees, etc? He probably became aware of it somehow like Bran, was trained and still was able to live his life as hand of the king and lord commander of the nights watch. Bran already made it to the wall, why wouldn't he be able to make it back? Who knows maybe he will meet up with Jon somehow still or Mel or anyone for that matter. We still have Hodor too who I believe is still of importance to the story (and totally think he's related to Ser Duncan!) and I personally do not think Meera or Jojen are dead, at least definitely not Meera. And if It really was "jojen paste" that Bran ate, I think either Jojen gave some blood willingly and is still alive, or has allowed himself to be sacrificed willingly. But I really don't think he's dead at all because of all the times he references his green dream of dying back at home. It seemed somehow important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vale of Tears Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Bran being stuck in the cave would be the cruelest thing Martin has done in the series for me. Losing his legs, his family, his home, only to have to spend the rest of his life alone in a cave stuck to a tree? I've always felt that Martin hated the Starks, but damn.I couldn't agree more, it's like the poor kid has been through enough give him a break...and then you realize wait he's a Stark soooo this makes sense yea.There are some things that make me somewhat uneasy about Jojen's fate. Meera and Jojen aren't where Bran expects them after he returns from eating the "greenseer paste". It is unclear if the paste contains blood or not - the descriptions are ambiguous but there are a lot of cannibalism references throughout Bran's chapters in this book (when Coldhands brings Meera, Jojen and Braw "a sow" for example - or is it?). Bran's last chapter ends with a human sacrifice, which shows that "the singers" aren't beyond that and just like Melisandre they may demand blood from time to time - maybe a greenseers blood rather than King's blood?Earlier in Bran's last chapter, at one point Bran says "They [the singers] will kill me!???" and Jojens response is : "He is not the one who has to be afraid". Jojen is sullen and frightened in the cave, and Meera is crying and sad. One wonders what they day is that Jojen will die, and the whole atmosphere of that last chapter gives me the creeps.I think Meera is not in direct danger - Jojen's sinister greendream seems to be about himself only. Meera notices that he seems to have given up and it also looks like the three-eyed crow was a big disappointment to them. I wonder if Jojen may end up, or already has ended up, as a human sacrifice (and what better reason but to bring Bran to the next level of greenseer superwizardry?). Or maybe he is destined to take Bloodraven's place instead of Bran as you would expect, and that's why Jojen is so disappointed and melancholous now he sees the reality of being in that position.Anyway, the fact that Martin chose to end the chapter with Bran explicitly expecting to see the Reeds but both being absent raises all kinds of alarms with me. I wonder if either Jojen may have been killed (or allowed himself to have been killed, or maybe just leeched or something) or if Meera and Jojen are trying to escape the cave through the underground river or something like that.I hope this queston will be asked to Martin in the next Q&A - if he intended a cliffhanger here or if I and some others are seeing ghosts here.I couldn't agree more. All of Bran's chapters and how Jojen was feeling and with Meera crying made me very uneasy and the paste was just the cherry on top. If in fact he does eat Jojen and Jojen is dead, I wonder how Meera will feel towards Bran now?Is it possible that the paste has some of Jojen's blood in it but he's still alive?This is what I'm HOPING for, but I again I just get this nagging feeling that something's not right, because if this was the case then why would Jojen be THAT upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 A blood sacrifice should require a real sacrifice, a bit of blood here and there doing the trick would feel a cop out, but then it would fit somewhat with the shadow baby causing Stannis ill health but not requiring his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 There are two alternatives here which I think will play out quite early in Winds of Winter. Either the red stuff in the paste was weirwood sap as advertised and revealed as such by Jojen turning up again in his usual state of misery, or alternatively and bearing in mind the way Bran tasted the blood at the end of his second vision, Jojen has indeed been butchered and this is the vehicle for revealing that the Children are not the cuddly tree-huggers they pretend to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 COTF/BR having sacrificed Jojen doesn't make them evil or go against their overall stated objectives. Before that could be determined we'd have to learn for what they sacrificed Jojen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Winds Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I bought the recipe book 'A Feast of Ice and Fire' and page 75 is 'Jojen Paste.' My question is, why would that recipe be included in the book, which was forwarded by GRRM himself, if Jojen wasn't made into a paste in the actual story?For those who are interested, to make Jojen Paste, you need three acorns, the bark of a weirwood tree, golden tree sap (a generous dollop) and finally half a Jojen, and then you need to mix vigourously for 10 minutes. Leave to set for 30 mins. Serves one aspiring green seer or four as a light snack. The book is available on amazon for £17.89Half a Jojen feeding one green seer? That is one helluva huge serving ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amoracchius Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I doubt that anything bad has happened to Jojen... yet. When he dies I'm assuming we'll see it and he'll announce "This is the day I die."I actually interpreted the “He will not even try and fight his fate. He says the greendreams do not lie" line as the "This is the day I die" moment. Meera is acknowledging that he has seen his death in his dreams, so he knows there is no point in fighting it or even hoping he'll be saved. I think that's why she starts to cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gendels Children Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 GRRM is such a troll. God. :)HAHAHA I know RIGHT! I think that's why I love this guy so much! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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