you wouldn't know me Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 If Jojen is in that paste that is seriously disgusting :ack: Its one thing to eat Freys but the Reeds are ok! I think if the paste did contain some Jojen there would be more hints rather than it looking like blood and Meera being upset but thats just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wouter Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 If Bran is in that paste that is seriously disgusting :ack: Its one thing to eat Freys but the Reeds are ok! I think if the paste did contain some Jojen there would be more hints rather than it looking like blood and Meera being upset but thats just my opinion.Maybe it is only a hint for what may follow. The chapter ends with the sacrifice, and with Bran "tasting the blood". This is IMO one of the most disconcerting chapters in the whole of ASOIAF, and not purely because of the Bloodraven situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sawyer Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I got from Meera's comment that Jojen knows that he's going to die at home and he thinks it's time to leave for there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wouter Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I got from Meera's comment that Jojen knows that he's going to die at home and he thinks it's time to leave for there.That's a possible interpretation, but if so why is Jojen so sad now? After all, it looks very unlikely that he will reach the neck in any hurry, in fact one would think the wights and the cold and the lack of food, coupled with his weak health, would kill him well before he reaches the Wall even. Unless he waits till the Others are defeated, to then go die at home? Seems unlikely.What I think is that Meera's statement "he wants to go home" is separate from "he will not even try and fight his fate". I doubt his fate is to die at home, but he longs to go home. No, I very much fear Jojen will die in that cave, if he didn't already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaostics Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Have we agreed that it was Bran who warged into the crow and said "Jon Snow"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wouter Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Have we agreed that it was Bran who warged into the crow and said "Jon Snow"?No way to tell for sure, but it does seem likely doesn't it? The change in style could be down to Bran taking over from Bloodraven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septon Meribald Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Have we agreed that it was Bran who warged into the crow and said "Jon Snow"?Bloodraven established that trees do not see time like us, which I think explains Bran seeing the past through the weirwoods. Still I doubt he can warg his way back through time.Scratch that, I thought you were talking about the LC election. The later instance of "Jon Snow" makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olenna Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Is it possible that the paste has some of Jojen's blood in it but he's still alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wouter Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Is it possible that the paste has some of Jojen's blood in it but he's still alive?Yes, by use of leeches for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Pinko Grande Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Random thought: if Jojen's blood is in the paste, why doesn't it taste like blood? We're explicitly told that Bran knows what blood tastes like from that human sacrifice. Wouldn't he note that same flavor in the paste, if that were the case.And from a more meta perspective, If I were the author and I wanted to draw a parallel between the human sacrifice we see through the weirwood and the paste Bran was eating, I'd have Bran explicitly taste blood in the paste and then think "Oh, they must have butchered a goat." Then, when he sees the sacrifice he (and the reader) realizes that it wasn't goat's blood after all. As it is, we aren't given any reason to believe that's anything but weirwood sap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wouter Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Random thought: if Jojen's blood is in the paste, why doesn't it taste like blood? We're explicitly told that Bran knows what blood tastes like from that human sacrifice. Wouldn't he note that same flavor in the paste, if that were the case.And from a more meta perspective, If I were the author and I wanted to draw a parallel between the human sacrifice we see through the weirwood and the paste Bran was eating, I'd have Bran explicitly taste blood in the paste and then think "Oh, they must have butchered a goat." Then, when he sees the sacrifice he (and the reader) realizes that it wasn't goat's blood after all. As it is, we aren't given any reason to believe that's anything but weirwood sap.Remember, Bran tasting the blood from the sacrifice of many years ago is the very end of his chapter - the cliffhanger, one might say. The chapter cuts out before we can see Bran react, before he can check up on the presence or absence of the Reeds again. And the way the paste was decribed, it's difficult to tell if it can have been blood. Note how the taste changes with each bite, as if Bran's taste is getting influenced purely by those first couple of bites. The first bite he almost retches out, the next is still very bitter, then it's sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dario Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 the bran chapters were creepy to say the least...is it me or has Bran's story line taken a very "norse" influenced turn?a man with one eye bloodraven v odin? crows v ravens? death and re-birth (brans fall) bran=balder? Ragnarok v the battle for the dawn/long winter? Others= frost giants?wierwood v sacred tree called Yggdrasil? two humans hiding in the trees jojen/meera v Lif and Lifthrasir...maybe it is just me but there seems to be some really strong norse mythology in relation to the what is happening north of the wall...and everything I have read of norse mythology was pretty "bittersweet" how it ends...Or I am probably just grasping for straws.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthRemembers Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 dario, I think it is just the influences of Norse mythology shining through. GRRM uses many different sources depending on the feel he's trying to achieve for each culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyReed Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Is it possible that the paste has some of Jojen's blood in it but he's still alive?Very possible. I find it unlikely that they kill Jojen, considering that they want Bran to do what they tell him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arataniello Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Who comes up with this stuff, seriously? Jojen's blood in the paste Bran ate. Far-fetched, not to say ludicrous.Why on earth would the Children of the Forest, who have used the weirwood trees for millenia and (presumably) know all there is to know about green-seeing, possibly need the blood of mortal Jojen (who can only green-DREAM) to get Bran to be able to use the weirwoods?Occam's Razor - if it looks like a paste of weirwood seeds with some weirwood sap in it, it's probably exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wouter Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Who comes up with this stuff, seriously? Jojen's blood in the paste Bran ate. Far-fetched, not to say ludicrous. Obviously, I did, among others.Why on earth would the Children of the Forest, who have used the weirwood trees for millenia and (presumably) know all there is to know about green-seeing, possibly need the blood of mortal Jojen (who can only green-DREAM) to get Bran to be able to use the weirwoods? Why on Earth did that proto-Stark sacrifice a man, so that Bran could taste the blood as the tree tasted it? Why on Earth does Melisandre need to burn people to get much of her magic to work? Why on Earth did Drogo have to die for the dragons? Who came up with this stuff, seriously? Some George guy.Occam's Razor - if it looks like a paste of weirwood seeds with some weirwood sap in it, it's probably exactly that.Blood and cannibalism and human sacrifice was mentioned just a few times too many in Brans chapters for me to be sure about that. I hope so, I prefer Jojen alive, but it isn't looking good for him anyway. Look, if Martin didn't intend this to be a suggestion at all he will have no problems confirming Jojen is alive. Maybe the question could be asked at the next signing or whatever meeting with Martin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florizel Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I just think the 'sacrafice' in front of the wiertree was to be done in the eyes of the old god's. I don't think it was a sacrifice, so much as an execution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaostics Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 The Bran chapters are probably some of the most boring but important of the whole book. Still mad that Benjen didn't reveal himself to be Coldhands though, I wanted that one settled. I am not convinced that Jojen was in the paste, I think it is possible, but I dont think that is how he is going out. Hodor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
em388480 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Well if its any consolation I myself was blissfully unaware that the sap may be blood until I finished Dance and came on to the board. The theme of cannibalism throughout the book gives credence to this theory & Jojen saying that Bran is "not the one who has to be afraid :shocked: ".Jojen is a greenseer. He knows what is going to happen. I think Jojen has foreseen his death, and is depressed about it. He's told Meera, and she knows it is imminent, and soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourmaline Dragon Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Why on Earth did that proto-Stark sacrifice a man, so that Bran could taste the blood as the tree tasted it? Why on Earth does Melisandre need to burn people to get much of her magic to work? Why on Earth did Drogo have to die for the dragons?All of the sacrifice, cannibalism and blood throughout the books makes it easy to be suspicious of that paste :stunned: ! While I am not 100% sure that Jojen's blood *gag* was in the paste the last bit as you say with the root of the tree (that Bran is in) taking in the blood seems and Bran tasting it......it's like GRRM is trying to tell us something important here.....We know the saying "only death can pay for a life" perhaps there is a toll (death) to pay for becoming a greendreamer.Blood and cannibalism and human sacrifice was mentioned just a few times too many in Brans chapters for me to be sure That is what I am thinking. Oh dear I think Jojens in that paste! :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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