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[ADWD] Brienne Collecting Jaime


koifishkid

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I hope that the BwB has collected Jaime and want to use him to conquer Riverrun or to free the northman hostages at the Twins.

I know, pretty unlikely but a man can dream. The more likely scenario is that they hang him and that Brienne has lied to save his companions.

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Clearly shes doing it because pod is held hostage. My guess is there will be a trial and jaime will pass it. From what we saw in the Brienne's chapters, it seems at least as if Thoros is regretting the path that the BwB is heading down with unCat's leadership; maybe he will help out somehow. I can't see Jaime dying this way, it seems too early lol.

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I'm not sure where this notion has come from that Brienne is undead. There are only two kinds of undead wandering around at the moment - those such as Beric and Cat who were dead but have been brought back to life, and give or take a bit of brain damage (likely in Cat's case due to the length of time she spent dead) unpleasant smells, wounds and bits of decay, are behaving as themselves. Then there are the Wights, who are probably not really undead but simply corpses into which the White Walkers have warged.

Brienne doesn't fit either category. She's not a Wight and if she really was hanged by the neck until she was dead and then re-animated with a bit of fire magic she would still be Brienne and if she wasn't going to hunt down Jaimie before she was dead she's got no reason to hunt him down afterwards.

The only explanation is the simplest one, that she changed her mind in order to save young Podrick, was cut down and has come to collect Jaimie with a poultice covering the bit of her face eaten by biter.

What cunning plan she has to save Jaimie remains to be seen.

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If Stoneheart gets her hands on Jaime she'll kill him. No trial, no second chances. The guy crippled her little boy and then (as far as she knows) reneged on his promise to release her daughters. And after Roose Bolton's "Jaime Lannister sends his regards", she probably thinks he helped orchestrate the Red Wedding.

Alongside Roose Bolton and Walder Frey, Jaime is probably her least favourite person on the planet. Can you imagine ultra-vengeful zombie Catelyn just letting him loose?

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Because I cannot envision GRRM killing Jaime off any time soon, here are A couple of ways the story can go:

- Jaime never reaches Stoneheart. Either because he figures out Brienne is lying (she is no good at it, just see her trial), because Brienne warns him or because they hear news of Sansa before they reach their destination.

- Once in front of Stoneheart, his only real way out is to demand a trial by combat real-real loud in front of as many of her subjects as he can, so that she is forced to give it to him. Then he must somehow win it, it does not need to be great swordsmanship, it's enough that he holds his own and lucks out (all the screen time he had training with Payne must have some payoff, at last, and we have precedent for trial by battle being won by Sandor). Brownie points if while Stoneheart accuses him, he manages to accuse her back (for all the crimes the outlaws committed against the King's peace), so when he offs her champion, she can be pronounced guilty by her own people and killed for good. The rest of the brotherhood can then get themselves a better leader and start regaining their honor. Someone must dispose of her, ASAP, and Jaime / Brienne are the only POV in her vicinity.

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I think it is quite possible that Jaime is done for. GRRM seems intent on devastating House Lannister, and it is the second to last book that he would die in. POVs need to be trimmed back on now. Jaime started out in the story a man renowned for his lack of honor, throwing a child from a window to cover up his crime, and had a nice little redemption arc in which he broke apart from Cersei and made some efforts at atoning for his wrongs. Killing Jaime eliminates yet another person who might "save" the Lannisters from the dust up that is coming -- and leaves Daenerys with only the children of the rebels to wreak her vengeance on.

The problem is that it feels like Jaime has so many loose ends left in his story. It wouldn't be the first time a character with loose ends bit the dust, but still it feels like he should have some sort of confrontation with Cersei and perhaps one of the Stark girls. There is also Tyrion to consider; shouldn't Jaime and Tyrion meet again? I'm not sure that I would feel very satisfied from a literary perspective if Jaime died just yet, and it would be nice if he really could achieve atonement through saving Sansa Stark. I would actually really like it if the final showdown with Cersei came about because of Sansa.

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I really doubt that Jamie will die at the beginning of TWOW. He's a valuable POV with still some story to tell. He's Cersie's counterpoint, she needs him alive to give her arc resonance. Jamie's arc is still very much unfinished with children to own up to and a sister to disavow and witness destroyed. I think Jamie dies when Cersie dies. Whether they are in the same place at the time or at opposite ends of the continent, I can not say.

Jamie will die in the end, even though in my foolish dreams he is the 3rd dragon rider, but, I think, that end won't come till his arc & Cersie's are completed.

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Alexia, you seem to contradict yourself in your post. First Jaime is killable for you, then he has too many loose ends to be killed? I am not sure I follow. Your premise sems to be that all Lannisters must fall, which I see less and less as the books progress. Death has seldom been the ultimate punishment in the series (just look at Theon). Characters in need of redemption are given ample chances to do just that. When Cersei's arc in ADWD saw her utterly humiliated, but clearly set to survive her ordeal, it cemented the pattern for me. Add the 'dead' characters coming back to life in flocks, and you can see that since Ned, all POVs and many key non-POV have been quite safe. The only exceptions are Robb and Tywin.

If any of the Lannisters POV should die, it will be in the final 7th book showdown. Plus, the 'we will die together' of the twins is NOT a prophecy of any sorts, but an expression of their belief rooted in their love for each other. Which has disappeared completely of late. The last time Jaime thought of it was in ASOS, and Cersei in AFFC, IIRC.

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Jaime's decision to go alone with Brienne is beyond stupid...what is he hoping to accomplish ? Sandor Clegane is one of the most vicious fighters in Westeros while Jaime hasn't improved at all with his left hand...is he trying to pull a Tyrion and hoping to sweet-talk the Hound? I really hope that Jaime saw trough Brienne's lies and is planning something epic.

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- Jaime never reaches Stoneheart. Either because he figures out Brienne is lying (she is no good at it, just see her trial), because Brienne warns him or because they hear news of Sansa before they reach their destination.

Well, we do have a proliferation of people with direction issues in this tale, so this is the most likely outcome. Though it's only a short ride away, so by all rights he ought to get there easily enough.

I presume he'll die. Just on the 'time for the mass character graveyard' sentiment. Too many bodies, too little page space.

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Alexia, you seem to contradict yourself in your post. First Jaime is killable for you, then he has too many loose ends to be killed?

My basic point is that while I could see it happening, I personally would be displeased if it happened without resolution of at least some of the things that I pointed out -- Cersei, Tyrion, Sansa. Also, I feel somehow certain that Daenerys will never have the opportunity to face him. But, I hope unCat doesn't kill him yet! ;) In general, I haven't yet formed a theory of how this will go; I could see it happening either way.

I think that Cersei and Tyrion will both survive until the last book, both of them are all but twirling mustachios by now and out for blood. Jaime...I just don't know, TBH. If Brienne is taking him to Catelyn, I am sure that he will die. So my question is, where is Brienne taking him?

Also, count me in as someone who completely hates Cersei's silly prophecy and hopes it isn't true. I don't really want to know how a character will die thousands of pages in advance of that death. We don't really need Jaime and Cersei to leave this world together either, although I found Tyrion's decision to put their heads on spikes next to each other because "no one should ever come between my brother and sister" darkly amusing.

*sorry if all my musings don't make any sense as of right now...

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Also, doesn't it feel like one of Catelyn's children should end up meeting her? And Sansa seems like the only one who could potentially do this at all -- and Jaime and Brienne could potentially be the vehicle to make this happen.

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Also, doesn't it feel like one of Catelyn's children should end up meeting her? And Sansa seems like the only one who could potentially do this at all -- and Jaime and Brienne could potentially be the vehicle to make this happen.

To paraphrase Kevin, no child should ever witness his mother like that.

Re: Tyrion and Jaime, I find it very telling how both brothers reflect on each other in their respective chapters. For all Tyrion's hate, when Penny asks him what he misses from Westeros his first thought goes to his brother, which I find telling. Jaime, too, thinks fondly of Tyrion until he remembers what he did or said he did. A Jaime /Tyrion resolution is a personal dream of mine. Tyrion thinks he wants he Rock, but he actually wants people to love him. His estrangement from the only person who ever cared for him is pretty painful.

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Victarion's red priest fixing his hand might be a bit of foreshadowing for what could happen to Jamie when he gets to Stoneheart and Thoros, the prophecy does say the valonqar will use his hands, plural.

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To paraphrase Kevin, no child should ever witness his mother like that.

Re: Tyrion and Jaime, I find it very telling how both brothers reflect on each other in their respective chapters. For all Tyrion's hate, when Penny asks him what he misses from Westeros his first thought goes to his brother, which I find telling. Jaime, too, thinks fondly of Tyrion until he remembers what he did or said he did. A Jaime /Tyrion resolution is a personal dream of mine. Tyrion thinks he wants he Rock, but he actually wants people to love him. His estrangement from the only person who ever cared for him is pretty painful.

I couldn't possibly agree more; it would be absolutely horrible for any of the children to see Catelyn like that. But with her on the hunt for Sansa, believing that every single one of her children died, and wreaking death and destruction to get revenge for them...I expect it somehow. :crying:

One of the things I noticed while reading Tyrion's chapers is that he thinks to himself that he misses Jaime and Shae. Once again, total agreement. Do you think that they will ever reconcile? I tend to think that the relationship is shot now but it is really sad. I have a hard time thinking of how things could change between them after Tyrion shot Tywin and told Jaime that he killed Joffrey.

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UnCat was not introduced to disappear into nothing after two short appearances. She is going to stick until the very end, I assume, being crucial to the Stark vengeance story part, and there will be some kind of family reunion in the end, after all.

Bran the Tree, Cat the Zombie, Arya the Assassin, Rickon the Lord, and Sansa the Pawn. Should be fun, I guess ;-).

Jaime is either going to die now. Not that likely from a storytelling POV, but still the likeliest scenario if you are realistic. If does not die, then Cat is going to give him and Brienne a new mission. No idea what mission that could, it might involve Riverrun, Littlefinger and the Vale, or Jaime's family.

But I'm sure now that Jaime's time as Cersei's lover and LC of Tommen's KG are already over. He is not going to return to his family as a friend.

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