All's Fair in Love and Politics

[Guest Raidne]

So, I used to have a rule about this: no conservatives. It was right up there with no frat boys, date rapists, and other misogynists. ;)

Things like gay marriage, equal pay, and abortion just seem fairly fundamental to a person's worldview and character. I'm not even sure I could be close friends with someone who differed from me on these issues.

But what about, say, tax policy? I mean, libertarians are conservative. But then, they're also, you know, crazy.

Just curious what thoughts people have on the subject. There are some people here (hi Tormund) who hold positions that I don't agree with but nevertheless find no logical fault with and certainly respect, and have persuaded me to change my mind about a few things. I think those kinds of differences might be workable and even interesting. What's better foreplay than a good political debate anyway, no? As long as you're not disgusted with the person by the end of it?

[Asarlai]

I've never dated a capitalist; not a conscious decision perhaps, but it does play a role in how well we hit it off. I've never had a problem having close friends with very different political/social/economic views, but romantic relationships have been different. At minimum, I wouldn't have a girlfriend who didn't truly care about helping the poor rise from poverty (and I admit that there are people like this who have very different ideas about how to best go about it). It's just a human compassion issue for me.

And, purely for safety issues, I wouldn't date someone with different views on abortion.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I'd be really bored if my wife and I agreed on all political questions. I like interesting and engaging debate/discussion. 100% agreement tends to be a poor leaven for good discussion.

Asarlai,

Regarding your "safety reasons" on abortion. What if your paramour believes in abortion rights but chooses not to have an abortion if she becomes pregnant?

[Guest Raidne]

I don't know if I care about helping the poor rise from poverty, per se. I care about equal playing fields to an extent - health care for all, the ability to pay for college, good k-12 education, etc. Would that be the same thing for you, As, or no?

On abortion, yeah, the personal view would matter more than the political.

[Bronn Stone]

I don't think I could survive a long-term relationship with someone on the other side of the aisle. The friendships are often hard enough.

[Asarlai]

Asarlai,

Regarding your "safety reasons" on abortion. What if your paramour believes in abortion rights but chooses not to have an abortion if she becomes pregnant?

1. Nice use of the word paramour. :thumbsup:

2. As long as she was completely sure she wouldn't have an abortion and I believed her, I suppose it wouldn't be a deal breaker. Though often and loud pro-choice preaching would be.

I don't know if I care about helping the poor rise from poverty, per se. I care about equal playing fields to an extent - health care for all, the ability to pay for college, good k-12 education, etc. Would that be the same thing for you, As, or no?

Yeah, I think so. It's hard to come up with a list of policies for this, when all I'm really saying is "Must care about other people's well-being." If I limited myself only to pro-life communists, I would find myself rather alone :P

[quirksome]

I've never had a problem having close friends with very different political/social/economic views, but romantic relationships have been different.

This. I once dated an objectivist and the clash was too difficult - even giving change to a homeless person would lead on to a non-quite-argument about the uselessness of charity and the crutch of welfare. It's hard to imagine a future together when you find out your morals and general outlook are so different. With friends it's just a lively discussion but politics represents your worldview and it's too personal to leave behind in a romantic relationship.

That said, I suspect strength of religious faith is more of a dealbreaker than political affiliation.

[kungtotte]

I can overlook someone preferring the free market over a regulated economy, but I can't overlook someone thinking that some people do not have the right to get married because of who they like to rub genitals with. Also I think some right-wingers are just flat out fucking crazy, so going out with them would violate the cardinal rule of "Don't stick your dick in crazy".

That being said, I think you need to find some sort of balance if you want to have an actual relationship with someone from the wrong side. If the differences are too big then all your discussions will boil down to what separates you, so they need to be just big enough to make life interesting.

Asarlai,

Regarding your "safety reasons" on abortion. What if your paramour believes in abortion rights but chooses not to have an abortion if she becomes pregnant?

If your paramour flat out refuses abortion, the option is completely off the table. If she is open to abortion, you have more options available if the situation ever arises. Even if she chooses not to avail herself of it, the option is still there.

[Kouran]

I suppose from my view point logical and reasonable people should be able to agree in principle about most things. For example no one wants grandma to be put out on an ice floe come winter because the tribe can't feed a non productive member, but how do you afford to pay for that food?

I cant imagine caring for someone who couldn't or wouldn't be willing to at least listen to other view points and reasoned and rational arguements for or against a certain thing. I suppose the line in the sand for me would be a closed mind.

[Altherion]

Would you date across the aisle?

For the most part, yes. There are a few views (e.g. the desire to see Creationism taught in schools) which I don't think could be held by somebody compatible with me in other ways, but these are rare -- abortion, gay marriage, etc. do not qualify as such.

[Asarlai]

This. I once dated an objectivist and the clash was too difficult - even giving change to a homeless person would lead on to a non-quite-argument about the uselessness of charity and the crutch of welfare. It's hard to imagine a future together when you find out your morals and general outlook are so different. With friends it's just a lively discussion but politics represents your worldview and it's too personal to leave behind in a romantic relationship.

I agree; anyone against charity would be way out in my book. Also, anyone who wanted to live a very wealthy lifestyle.

That said, I suspect strength of religious faith is more of a dealbreaker than political affiliation.

When it comes to just dating, I don't think so. If you're getting close to marriage or kids, the some sort of agreement would have to be worked out regarding how the children would be raised with regards to religion. That said, I don't see a militant atheist and a young Earth creationist climbing into bed together.

I can overlook someone preferring the free market over a regulated economy, but I can't overlook someone thinking that some people do not have the right to get married because of who they like to rub genitals with.

If they're a reasonable person, you could always try to change their mind. I did that successfully once.

If your paramour flat out refuses abortion, the option is completely off the table. If she is open to abortion, you have more options available if the situation ever arises. Even if she chooses not to avail herself of it, the option is still there.

My point was that I do not want that option to even be considered by anyone I could end up impregnating. When you consider it to be murder, and then it's your child in question, it's hard to make compromises.

[BigFatCoward]

So, I used to have a rule about this: no conservatives.

have you met a hot right winger and you're hoping we'll talk you into it?

[Datepalm]

Well, national politics is easy - I can't even have a civil conversation with settlers, on any subject, so thats out. Socioeconomic stuff is trickier. I think it's kind of a question of words vs. deeds. Like, I wouldn't date a libertarian who lives alone in a cabin in the woods ranting about the new world order with a collection of rifles and shoots tax collectors, (how would I even get to know this person?) but someone who just sort of talks the talk? dunno, they might just be misguided, or its a fairly small aspect of their personality, etc. Some people are a lot less political than I am, it turns out.

[Mya Stone]

have you met a hot right winger and you're hoping we'll talk you into it?

You know her so well. :P

[kungtotte]

Well in that case, he's just going to be a rebound guy anyway so who gives a shit if he puts babies on spikes in his spare time? Let the next woman be the one who fixes him.

[Kelli Fury]

I couldn't even get into a position to think about dating someone whose views on social issues differed from mine significantly. About fiscal policy, sure, that would be fine, but on social issues I think a large different would have to come from such radically different values that we couldn't be very close. Someone who didn't fully support gay rights would cause fistfights, at minimum, with my family. And it's an extreme way to put it, but I just couldn't feel like they were a very good person if they thought someone like my own brother did not deserve to be treated exactly the same (no civil union but not marriage people, either) in the eyes of the law. And first and foremost, you have to believe your partner is generally a good person. I couldn't feel that way about someone who was antigay, antichoice, vehemently antiimmigration, ect. Not because my political ideals are so important to me, but because these things are about compassion to me. I wouldn't want to be with a person who didn't display compassion.

[Asarlai]

Also, with the state of propaganda as it is today, I doubt I'd find many right-wing girls willing to date a communist anyway.

I couldn't feel that way about someone who was antigay, antichoice, vehemently antiimmigration, ect. Not because my political ideals are so important to me, but because these things are about compassion to me. I wouldn't want to be with a person who didn't display compassion.

Isn't the anti-abortion argument based pretty much solely on compassion? Seems weird to include it with the others.

[Smashing Young Man]

Liberal women are far too vapid and lack strength of character.

[Shael]

I'm dating a conservative right now. However, she's almost totally uninterested in politics. Can you be a conservative who's uninterested in politics? I consider myself a pretty hard left liberal, but in actuality, there's a ton of things that we agree on. More than my partisan brain would have imagined. Her disinterest in politics is actually a bigger point of contention with us. I think it's vital to pay attention to that stuff so you don't inadvertently vote a monster into office. She's of the "they're all cheating liars, so why bother," school of thought right now (which is hardly a school of "thought" if you ask me). We've had a few good debates so far, but as far as our relationship is concerned, it's just not that important at the moment.

Yes, I'm talking about the 19 year old. She'll be twenty in September. Come on September. I don't know of too many people who have a cogent, well thought out ideology at 19. I know I didn't, I just hated Republicans for some reason that I couldn't quite define. Anyway, if she was a conservative fire breather, things would be different I have no doubt. Maybe when 2012 rolls around we'll have a relationship ending argument, but I doubt it.

Conservative friends? Too often I've found that with really conservative people, my worldview and theirs are simply incompatible. There are people in my circle of friends that I can't avoid that I've actually come to almost hate, which is sad. But you get to the point where if one more idiot mouths off about Obama being a Kenyan Socialist Nazi, you have no choice but to say, "well, sorry, but fuck you too. Your worldview makes you a bad person. And your face is ridiculous."

I'm not a huge fan of this we must not talk about politics in order to maintain a civil atmosphere thing that I've been experiencing at gatherings recently. I'm sure others who hang out with mixed politics groups have felt the same thing.

[Kelli Fury]

Isn't the anti-abortion argument based pretty much solely on compassion? Seems weird to include it with the others.

Not in my opinion, reproductive issues are deeply skewed to low income, lesser educated women. Especially since I'm a woman who dates men, so I would find it a pretty serious lack of empathy toward women for a man to be strongly anti choice.

I also take issue with calling it "anti abortion." I don't think anyone on any side is "pro abortion," I think abortion sucks and is wrong and it's sad that anyone gets them, but I also think I'm not in their shoes and don't have any right to make choices regarding their body. Pro/anti choice seems more accurate and less belittling to both sides.

I do understand that people who are anti choice are so out of what they feel is a moral imperative. I don't begrudge them that at all, though I very strongly disagree. I could have close friends and family who felt that way no problem, but I couldn't be with someone who would be comfortable imposing their morality on others via the legal system.