[ADwD Spoilers] Perfumed Seneschal

[Lummel]

Also that boat has sunk. Unless the wreck is now a hazard to shipping, its hard to imagine that it is something that Dany should mistrust.

[Ser Pink of Floyd]

Varys does seem to be the most obvious person to be the Seneschal. As previously noted, his liking for nice smells singles him out and crucially, he is an agent in charge (or sorts), Varys serves "The Realm", he's prolific at what he does, with his 'little birds', the guy is unofficially incharge of everything as nothing gets through without him knowing. He's plotted the return of Aegon, he killed Keven to assist his crusade, he helped Tyrion escape to the Free Cities. It could be argued that he has the most control of what is happening in Westros.

The only problem I do have with it possibly being Varys is that he's plotted with Illyrio to get a Targ back on the throne... why then would he betray Dany?

[Lummel]

Well maybe because he doesn't want any Targaryen on the throne he specifically wants Aegon (either because Aegon is a Blackfyre, or because Aegon is seen to be his creature, or because he believes that Aegon's upbringing has made him uniquely fit for the crown or any combination of these).

[Candor]

Reznak is too obvious, it's the first thing that comes to Dany's mind because he's a seneschal and he uses a lot of perfume. Prophecies are always open to interpretation and never to be taken literally.

When Tyrion boards the ship and the captain explains the name to him he says something along the lines of "it means something that is fragrant and uhm steward" so basically Fragrant Steward and Tyrion says "I like Stinky steward better". It seems quite obvious to me that the correct translation of the ship's name is Perfumed Seneschal.

The ship is bad news because it's also suspected to carry greyscale. Maybe grayscale is fatal to dragons ? Maybe the dragons of Dragonstone are actual dragons who died of greyscale ?

Well, it's certainly bad news for humans, as was "the pale mare". I would be interested to find out if greyscale is detrimental to dragons and I would not be surprised if it were.

That would be very fantasy-genre for Dragonstone to actually be a bunch of dragons who caught the disease and so have lain dormant/dead.

I guess my question towards that would be...

If someone / some animal perishes of greyscale are they a mass of stone, or will eventually everything rot down to bones over time like other ways of dying?

Comparing the dragon skeletons in the red keep to the potential dead dragons on Dragonstone, who are not decomposed to bones... you would assume that someone dead of greyscale becomes stone.

[mediterraneo]

I feel that the greyscale could be covered in "Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others" part.

It could be interpreted as other siknesses coming.

If the pale mare is the sickness and not her mount, the one Drogo gifted her as a wedding gift.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

You maybe right but there some holes in your reasoning, I do believe. You can certainly "trust" or "not trust" an object. Say you have a gun with a history of misfiring, you would rather take a more reliable gun into battle because you "mistrust" the unreliable one. Now this does not make the unreliable gun "evil", it may work just fine most of the time, but you just don't want to take a chance in an important situation. This is the difference I see in the prophecy, the griffin, lion, kraken, dark flame, mummer's dragon and sun's son may not be trust worthy for Dany at this moment, but that doesn't mean they are going to actively try an and harm her. "Beware" on the other hand has dangerous connotations, something that is going to actively try and hurt her (not something I associate with inanimate objects). You wouldn't "beware" a gun, but you would a dangerous person using one. Now is it possible to "beware" the boat, yes; because the boat is performing an action (possibly actively carrying danger to her). But the problem I have is that certainly the griffin, lion, and possibly mummer's dragon are on the boat, so why warn of them twice? why be un-trusting of them & wary of them also, why the redundancy in the prophecy, if it is the boat?

You must have missed this paragraph in what I wrote.

The ship was damaged fairly badly, but if I remember correctly, it was in good enough shape for slavers to board it and it's possible that it could eventually be repaired, in which case, telling Dany to not trust the ship's former passengers and to beware the ship itself doesn't have to be redundant.

It happens.

It's also possible that, if the ship isn't in seaworthy condition, there was "something" about it that was dangerous in and of itself, separate from its passengers. I don't see why the ship has to be completely synonymous with its passengers.

I feel that the greyscale could be covered in "Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others" part.

It could be interpreted as other siknesses coming.

If the pale mare is the sickness and not her mount, the one Drogo gifted her as a wedding gift.

The pale mare is not the same as greyscale.

[Black Crow]

I said pretty much the same thing myself somewhere. Perhaps it was just a general warning that taking passage in that leaky rustbucket would be a bad idea. Either way it needs to be remembered that Quaithe is warning of possible dangers which isn't the same thing as a prophecy that something will come to pass.

In this case, whether ship or passengers, it should really be taken as "If a ship called the Perfumed Seneschal (or Stinky Steward if you prefer) turns up, beware."

[Black Crow]

The pale mare is not the same as greyscale.

The pale mare is indeed what's currently ravaging the refugees and armies around Meereen, but the "after her the others" presumably does refer to other epidemics, which may or may not include Greyscale.

[Hear Us Roar]

yes Varys fits the bill.

[Ser Pink of Floyd]

Ive changed my mind...

I think its Maester Marwyn.

* He leaves Oldstown to get to Dany after Samwell tells him of Maester Ameon and what he told him of Dany & Her Dragons. So he is actively seeking her.

* Sam meets him at the Seneschal's Court

* Its believed that the Maesters erradication of Dragons of the earlier Targ kings. Would he not then be travelling to Dany to kill the dragons ?

[Pliskin]

* Its believed that the Maesters erradication of Dragons of the earlier Targ kings. Would he not then be travelling to Dany to kill the dragons ?

Marwin is in the pro-magic faction of the Citadel.

Why would he want to kill the last known dragons ?

[Black Crow]

Given that Quaithe is warning rather than prophesying, it could also be a general warning.

Cromwell famously railed against filling up the ranks of the Parliamentarian armies with "decayed serving men and tapsters", perhaps Quaithe in the same way is warning Dany not to put any faith in perfumed seneschals and other smooth-talking politicians but to rely instead on soldiers.

[Lummel]

I think its Maester Marwyn.

OK, well you've got a seneschal connection but what about the perfume?

[MMAJim]

For what it's worth, I think it is the ship... not a lot to back it up. It's just the sort of thing that will come floating a long at some point.

[Ser Pink of Floyd]

OK, well you've got a seneschal connection but what about the perfume?

I dont know. But then I dont really know its Marwyn, I just think that he seems a good option for it. But its pure speculation on my part. He might turn up smelling amazing when he meets Dany. Its not to say he (or anyone who it could be) smells nice now... but when they meet Dany. Circumstances happen between leaving and arriving. He might be travelling with a perfume merchant as its the only means to get to Merreen, hense will smell amazing!. Im not saying he will ofcourse, and I admit its rather far-fetched. But we dont know yet.

[Lummel]

For what it's worth, I think it is the ship... not a lot to back it up. It's just the sort of thing that will come floating a long at some point.

like a shipping hazard without a warning buoy?

[Black Crow]

Or a plague ship not flying a yellow flag...

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

As I've said in a few other threads, I did a rough reread of ADWD last week. I still think it's the ship. I thought that before, but rereading just enforced it. I think the ship's name was too precise to be anything but deliberate, and I much prefer the elegance of that to Dany going, "omgz it must be Reznak!" and everyone agreeing because it's just so bloody obvious. It's cheeky because, as been noted, the ship is probably down for the count, while Dany will probably still be looking under the bed for the "perfumed seneschal," possibly at the expense of paying attention to the other people she's supposed to be wary of.

[Candor]

As I've said in a few other threads, I did a rough reread of ADWD last week. I still think it's the ship. I thought that before, but rereading just enforced it. I think the ship's name was too precise to be anything but deliberate, and I much prefer the elegance of that to Dany going, "omgz it must be Reznak!" and everyone agreeing because it's just so bloody obvious. It's cheeky because, as been noted, the ship is probably down for the count, while Dany will probably still be looking under the bed for the "perfumed seneschal," possibly at the expense of paying attention to the other people she's supposed to be wary of.

If she's not too busy doing anything else in it...

I agree though. It's da boat.

[Lummel]

My problem with the boat theory is, well how is the boat going to be dangerous to Dany? It seems unlikely that the danger is the passengers because she gets separate warnings about those. I don't see the plague victims line - Meereen already has a grey mare problem, if not from refugees then from plague victims being catapulted into the city.

And what about the boat? Severely storm damaged then boarded by slavers. Did they just abandon it, or did they tow it to shore? In either case how is it going to be a risk to Dany? (who in any case is currently sailing on the Dothraki sea).