[ADwD Spoilers] Perfumed Seneschal

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning.

Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

Glass candles: Obsidian candles at the Citadel.

Pale mare: Disease.

Kraken: Victarion.

Dark flame: Moqorro.

Lion: Tyrion.

Griffin: Connington.

Sun's son: Quentyn Martell.

Mummer's dragon: Aegon (or "Aegon"), an instrument of Varys (the mummer)

Perfumed seneschal: The ship whose name translates to "stinky steward."

[pow]

I know Im probably wrong about the maester i just though it would be interesting, and i got a little ahead of myself.

One thing that drives me nuts is the idea that a boat name fragrant senechal.

What could this mean if it is the boat or the people on the boat.

1. If it is the boat.

It cant be because its under water!! Unless its walking on the sea floor.

2. Oh it must be the people on the boat!!

How would Dany know they came from this boat? This information MUST as a requirement mean something to Dany NOT you or I. Other wise its not a real warning.

So theres the two only possible reasons the idea that Dany is being warned about a boat, the fragrant senechal can ONLY be a fallacy. Since it cant be the boat since its GONE, and it cant be the people on the boat because shes already been warned of them, and how would Dany know that?

Another idea that is just as flawed as the boat idea is the one that says Varys must be the Perfumed Senechal.

1. I don't know if Varys wears perfume; find the quote about it. We cannot assume this is true. Prove me wrong please :D

2. Vary's is not a steward when Dany is warned.

Even if Varys wears perfume hes still not fitting the steward requirement. A seneschal is a steward. So if it is a person they must be a steward Vary's is not a steward he quite that job when Tyrion killed papa Lion.

So who is this dude? Well it could be the Maester since there are no conflicts like the boat or Vary's. Its unlikely yes.

Reznak Mo Reznak is the best choice. You might say prove it. Well i can this time.

1. Dany believes him to be the Perfumed Seneschal.

2. Ser Barristan is quoted twice below calling Reznak Mo Reznak the Prefumed Seneschal. Did Dany tell Ser Barristan about the Perfumed Seneschal?

3. The first set of people are said to be coming

"Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Trust none of them."

So my point is never did it say that the perfumed Seneschal was coming. We SHOULD not assume the prefumed senechal is on his/ her way like the others. Which means probably already there.see...

"Beware the perfumed seneschal."

Ser Barristan Quotes

Reznak Set the head on a satin pollow at the kings feet, then scampered away, his mouth twisted in a moue of distaste Ser Barristan could smell the Seneschal's heavy floral prefume. from serval yards away.

Ser Barristan took his leave, grateful to leave the strench of the Senechal's prefume vehind him. A man should smell of sweat, not flowers.

[Ethan Dirtch]

:agree:

There was an attempt to throw us off with references to Reznak, but I think its got to be Varys, and that he's going to be the final betrayer once she finally gets herself back to Westeros sometime in the next 20 years or so.

20 years!?!? dawwwwwwwwwwwwwohhhhhhh...

3. The first set of people are said to be coming So my point is never did it say that the perfumed Seneschal was coming. We SHOULD not assume the prefumed senechal is on his/ her way like the others. Which means probably already there.see...

Well, the wording is cryptic. It just means 'beware a seneschal who smells of perfume whenever you meet him'. It COULD just as easily mean that when Dany goes to meet him (i.e. goes to Westeros, as an arbitrary example), as it could mean that this seneschal is already there in Meereen.

I like the open-ended interpretation of this, much like the Prince that was Promised and Azor Ahai and Jon's parents.

Here are my top 3 with a special mention #4 (the top 3 are in no particular order):

-Varys

-Tyrion

-Illyrio

special mention: the boat itself, haunting her, ducking behind other ships just out of her sight whenever she looks out into the water! But, just as likely, one of Victarion's "lagging" ships tows it into harbor and Dany decides to use it as her ride home, it takes on water, it sinks, dropping her off in Valyria.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

So who is this dude? Well it could be the Maester since there are no conflicts like the boat or Vary's. Its unlikely yes.

Reznak Mo Reznak is the best choice. You might say prove it. Well i can this time.

1. Dany believes him to be the Perfumed Seneschal.

2. Ser Barristan is quoted twice below calling Reznak Mo Reznak the Prefumed Seneschal. Did Dany tell Ser Barristan about the Perfumed Seneschal?

3. The first set of people are said to be coming So my point is never did it say that the perfumed Seneschal was coming. We SHOULD not assume the prefumed senechal is on his/ her way like the others. Which means probably already there.see...

Because Dany herself suspects Reznak, and often recalls that exact wording of the prophecy when she's around him, we should be skeptical. For that very reason, it's obviously not him. Red. Herring.

You said yourself that that we should not "assume the perfumed seneschal is on his/her way like the others." Doesn't that fit in somewhat with the fact that the boat sank? It's no longer coming, was never meant to come.

[SpiffySilpion]

really?

Him and Illyrio are basically bum buddies, and Illyrio has done everything in his power to help Dany. The original intention is the same; to marry Dany and Aegon. I doubt Varys sees Dany as a threat anymore then he sees Tyrion as a threat. They are just tools to aid him in his quest for whatever it is.

I totally agree with this. I just can't see why Varys would see Dany as a threat being that she's Targaryen.

If you think about it, there's no way to dispute her claim to the throne through that line. On the other hand, people might dispute Aegon's claim all over since he's supposed to be dead. Frankly they might just need Dany alive and well to support Aegon's claim. Marry the two of them and poof! all is right with the world again.

I just can't see what Varys would have to gain by double crossing Dany.

[Jojen]

At first I thought the "dark flame" referred to Archmaester Marwyn, but now I'm thinking it's a reference to House Blackfyre and by extension the Golden Company.

[pow]

I was making the assumption that stating any one person or object;"those who still love dah boat theory", Was redundant and unnecessary. I can justify this by asking do you trust someone? this is a yes or no question. Its binary so this means cant 2x not trust someone. With that in mind i believe Varys: is the mummer, not exclusively either! Aegon would be the Dragon. Now assuming Varys is not the prefumed senechal and assuming the boat actually died who would suspect? You gotta admit Reznak Mo Reznak is sounding like a better choice :D

[Lord Godric]

Because Dany herself suspects Reznak, and often recalls that exact wording of the prophecy when she's around him, we should be skeptical. For that very reason, it's obviously not him. Red. Herring.

I thought the same thing too at first. And I caught the "stinky steward" bit and thought that Martin was very clever. But once the ship sank I wondered if GRRM just threw the perfumed seneschal in our faces knowing we would never accept that as the correct answer.

Now that I have had more time to think about Qaithe's prophecy, I wonder if it really was a prophecy at all. Or if she was seeing in the moment and was warning Dany of the Stinky Steward because at that time it was coming. As were the rest of the people she mentioned.

[GrandPoobah]

Wait, wait, wait! I'm confused now. I thought Varys was working to restore the Targaryens to the throne--why would he oppose Dany? I can't imagine she wouldn't join Aegon's forces once she gets to Westeros when she learns about him. Why would Varys want to get rid of her and her dragons?

I'm of the opinion that Varys wants HIS Targaryen (the one he made) to be king. Aegon, who is is IMO quite possibly the Mummer's Dragon. Aegon's not really a Targaryen. Jon and Tyrion are.

Note how Varys went through with Robert's requested attempt on Dany's life. He's worked for years to put the man he built and trained to be a proper king on the throne.

[Lord Godric]

I'm of the opinion that Varys wants HIS Targaryen (the one he made) to be king. Aegon, who is is IMO quite possibly the Mummer's Dragon. Aegon's not really a Targaryen. Jon and Tyrion are.

Note how Varys went through with Robert's requested attempt on Dany's life. He's worked for years to put the man he built and trained to be a proper king on the throne.

But Varys certainly was helping Viserys along too. Having Illyrio hook him up with the Dothraki could have been a ploy to just get him out of the way, but I really think Aegon was Varys' backup plan in case things went wrong with Dany and Viserys. It wasn't by chance that Aegon was going to find Dany before turning toward Westeros.

[variance]

But Varys certainly was helping Viserys along too. Having Illyrio hook him up with the Dothraki could have been a ploy to just get him out of the way, but I really think Aegon was Varys' backup plan in case things went wrong with Dany and Viserys. It wasn't by chance that Aegon was going to find Dany before turning toward Westeros.

If Varys wanted either of them dead, they would be dead.

[pow]

It seems to me that the Varys and the Illyrio are like peanut butter and jelly (brothers).

[SpiffySilpion]

I'm of the opinion that Varys wants HIS Targaryen (the one he made) to be king. Aegon, who is is IMO quite possibly the Mummer's Dragon. Aegon's not really a Targaryen. Jon and Tyrion are.

Note how Varys went through with Robert's requested attempt on Dany's life. He's worked for years to put the man he built and trained to be a proper king on the throne.

Didn't Varys warn Jorah about possible assassination attempts against Dany, effectively thwarting them?

Well, there's nothing stopping Aegon from being king (if he is the real baby Aegon grown up, and let's just assume for the moment that he is)... particularly with Dany at his side. She'll need a king in Westeros and he'd fit the bill so still, I just don't see why Varys would have to choose between one Targaryen and another when he can simply support both and work to bring them together. That was the original plan after all. Ser Connington was taking Aegon with the Golden Company (right? I keep mixing up all the mercenary groups) and going to Mereen until Tyrion said, "Nah, you'd be better off showing your strength first by getting things done in Westeros before her arrival--then you'll make an impression on Danerys!"

And Tyrion a dragon? I'm getting off topic here but it seems like there were a few passages to suggest that Aerys had Tywin's wife first on their wedding night suggesting that Jaime and Cersei might actually be part Targ. Jaime's aunt told him that once she told Tywin that Tyrion was his son. She didn't elaborate except to say Tywin wouldn't speak to her for quite a while after that but hearing Ser Barristan's testimony about who her parents might have liked/preferred at court was pretty intriguing. Tyrion may be Tywin's only real Lannister heir=a lion. I don't see Tyrion as another dragon here. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE for him to get to ride a dragon, but I just don't think he's a Targ.

[Hopeless]

Glass candles: Obsidian candles at the Citadel.

Pale mare: Disease.

Kraken: Victarion.

Dark flame: Moqorro.

Lion: Tyrion.

Griffin: Connington.

Sun's son: Quentyn Martell.

Mummer's dragon: Aegon (or "Aegon"), an instrument of Varys (the mummer)

Perfumed seneschal: The ship whose name translates to "stinky steward."

I agree with all of this except I'm not convinced that Moqorro is dark flame. I've got to re-read the chapters with him. I don't know who else it would be, though. Wait, how about Darkstar?

[Of House Gnome]

It could had been a warning regarding the ship carrying these people to her. Or simply someone she hasn't met yet though I'm not sure if she is seeing the future or the present with the glass candles. For someone reason I tend to think its the present one sees since the candles can somehow be used for communication, (hinted at by Marwyn and I think Quaithe said she was using a candle when talking to Danny but I need to reread both those chapters)

I do not believe Varys is the perfumed schenecal, for one he is not a schenecal and secondly he is already referred to as "the mummer" in the prophecy if we are reading it correctly.

Vary would want young griff, whoever he really is, to ascend becuase he was trained to rule, and secondly he would be accepted since he is male. Dany is a tool and potential consort to the young king.

As I read the chapter the thought that he may have the Targ curse crept into my head. And I suspect he's the genuine article since he has the Blood of the Dragon (the hair and eyes) and secondly I don't think Old Griff would tolerate the subterfuge.

[Auska]

But Varys certainly was helping Viserys along too. Having Illyrio hook him up with the Dothraki could have been a ploy to just get him out of the way, but I really think Aegon was Varys' backup plan in case things went wrong with Dany and Viserys. It wasn't by chance that Aegon was going to find Dany before turning toward Westeros.

This is a bit OT and discussed elsewhere, but having a plan A(egon), B(iserys, spanish pronounciation), and D(any) is better than just relying on a single child to make it to adulthood in the middle ages. Not saying that's necessarily the case, but it's a reasonable explanation.

[felice]

You said yourself that that we should not "assume the perfumed seneschal is on his/her way like the others." Doesn't that fit in somewhat with the fact that the boat sank? It's no longer coming, was never meant to come.

Did it sink? I thought it was just captured by the slavers, who'd have no reason to scuttle a perfectly good ship that just needs a new mast.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I agree with all of this except I'm not convinced that Moqorro is dark flame. I've got to re-read the chapters with him. I don't know who else it would be, though. Wait, how about Darkstar?

The crew calls him "the black priest" and he serves the Light God. What more do you want?

Honestly I don't get the Darkstar fascination. I really, really don't.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Did it sink? I thought it was just captured by the slavers, who'd have no reason to scuttle a perfectly good ship that just needs a new mast.

Ah, good point! The plot thickens.

[Hopeless]

The crew calls him "the black priest" and he serves the Light God. What more do you want?

Honestly I don't get the Darkstar fascination. I really, really don't.

As I said, I needed to re-read his chapters. I didn't pay enough attention to him the first time. I've re-read, and I agree it is pretty certain that Moqorro is dark flame. I suggested Darkstar on the spur of the moment, simply because of the name resemblance and that we don't know where he is. He will surely come back into the picture at some point, but I agree that he is not dark flame.