Struggling with AFfC

[Jayuk83]

Hi guys,

I'm on Book 4, 'A Feast For Crows'. So far I've read the prologue and am half way through the first chapter, 'The Prophet', and I am really struggling to keep reading so far. With the first three I just kept reading and reading and loved it, but this one seems almost like an entirely new story or something so far, and it's just not hooking me.

So my question is... for the impatient idiots like myself, does it pick up soon, and go back to ASoIaF territory of old? That's what I'm reading for.

[Zoë Sumra]

Hi guys,

I'm on Book 4, 'A Feast For Crows'. So far I've read the prologue and am half way through the first chapter, 'The Prophet', and I am really struggling to keep reading so far. With the first three I just kept reading and reading and loved it, but this one seems almost like an entirely new story or something so far, and it's just not hooking me.

So my question is... for the impatient idiots like myself, does it pick up soon, and go back to ASoIaF territory of old? That's what I'm reading for.

Mostly. A couple of POV characters' stories are slower than the ASOIAF average, and the overall feel of the book is a little more reflective than the others, but overall, I feel it maintains interest. I can't decide whether I like AFFC more or less than ACOK, but I certainly like it more than AGOT...

[Ser_Fiddlesticks]

I've read the first 4 chapters and I have found that it flows rather well so far. Really keen to keep reading at the moment and I do hope that will continue to be the case.

[Forseti]

The problem I had when first reading the book was all the new characters and situations it introduced, when I was really aching to read more of some characters that turned out not to be in the book at all. The Jaime and Cersei chapters are very much worth it though, especially the later Cersei ones. The ironborn won me over as well as I read more of it. So I'd say it picks up.

[DSC_01]

This book is a difficult one. So is the next. You have to be ready for a multiplicity of new perspectives, even as you hope for information on the characters you already know and love. Please realize that this book is filling in information that the first three ignored. Pay close attention to the the Dorne chapters. In a way, it's all a lot of filler, but it's important filler. It really fleshes out the story. Hang in there.

[chrishope]

Before I started AFfC last week, I had read all the negative reviews of it. And I was expecting to skim the book, but I am glad I haven't. Keep in mind AFfC was supposed to be combined with Dance of Dragons, so after a few hundred pages, you could read them concurrently. I think most of those reviews were by longtime fans who had waited 5 years for it, and then they were disappointed not to continue reading about their favorite characters.

Since I am new to the series, I have read the books one after the other. After Storm of Swords, I didn't think Martin could or would keep up the intensity. But also after book 3, I needed a slightly slower book to catch my breath. I really like AFfC. It's not as action packed as SoS or GoT, but I am enjoying it more than Clash of Kings. But if you are in a hurry to get to Dance with Dragons, you can read in depth chapter summaries at other websites. But I enjoy learning more about the Ironborn, and the histories of the different families. And even though the POV chapters for Jamie, Arya, Sansa, and Sam may not have loads of action, I find their stories very interesting. Even though this is considered subpar for Martin, it's still better than most fantasy out there. And I'd hate to miss important backstories before starting DoD. Just my 2 cents.

Chris

[Ser_Fiddlesticks]

I'm very much enjoying the book after having read some more. It really is slower paced, more reflective but as chrishope points out, that isn't ncessarily a bad thing after Clash of Kings and Storm of Swords. At some point both the Realm and the reader needs to catch their breaths for a bit. I wholeheartedly agree with Martin in that books shouldn't all be about advancing the plot line. They should also be about having an experience and being engrossed in he world the characters live in. That's why I'm enjoying A Feast for Crows. He really is a top notch writer.

[Michael Stephen Bell Jr.]

I am currently rereading it before I start ADWD and this will be the second time I have gone through it which would seem odd since I have read the rest of the series 3-4 times over the years. I have read some opinions that the general lack of affection this installment receives is due to the lack of specific loved characters or a change in the story focus or pacing, but I really don't think that is the problem at least for me. It really is just generally inferior to the previous volumes and I will give examples of why I feel this to be the case.

Start with the prologue. It is by far the weakest in the series thus far, and I think this has been a trend throughout the series, with each prologue weaker than the one that came before.

AGOT: Introduces us to this great world Martin has created, and does it with tense gripping prose filled with menace. It starts this page turner off with a bang and the book rarely lets us catch our breath.

ACOK: Not as tight, but it introduces us to Stannis Baratheon and gives us a basis for some emotional attachment, plus it sets the religious themes for the book to come and gives us the all too brief tragedy of Cressen. Gripping stuff on the whole.

ASOS: Here we follow Chett's evil plot and its dissolution due to the Others. The plot seemed rather weak and Chett's plan following the assassinations seemed particularly stupid, but you could write this off to Chett being a moron. However the reason he abandons the idea was particularly silly. A little snow aborts your plans? Err...it wasn't a blizzard was it? But still, death via Others is pretty menacing.

AFFC: We are introduced to a slew of new characters in a entirely new setting, which isn't a problem in and of itself, but the characters are so generic and bland as to generate a giant 'Who cares?' from the readers. This could be said primarily of Pate who is basically some moron who wants to come up with some dough in order to deflower a barmaid. So he gives some mystery man something and dies in an extremely vague way. Uhhh...okay. Not nearly as gripping as any of the prior installments.

Now that was merely the prologue, but this pretty much sets the tone for the remainder of the book I feel. I won't get too spoilery here, but many of these chapters don't really go anywhere. We as readers of the prior volume know already that Brienne's quest pointless since we know she is going in entirely the wrong direction throughout. So it again begs the question why we should care about her journey in the first place? Maybe if you just happened to love Brienne's character you would have a motivation to slog through her extended travelogue, but I have never found her particularly exciting.

There are many other things that weaken this book aside from the lack of specific characters or its stately pacing, but I again am attempting to avoid being a spoiler if at all possible. I also don't want to come across as someone that hates the book as there are some enjoyable moments thus far that I may have missed my first go around. Still it is decidedly the least of the books thus far.

[Mattyp]

ASOS: Here we follow Chett's evil plot and its dissolution due to the Others. The plot seemed rather weak and Chett's plan following the assassinations seemed particularly stupid, but you could write this off to Chett being a moron. However the reason he abandons the idea was particularly silly. A little snow aborts your plans? Err...it wasn't a blizzard was it? But still, death via Others is pretty menacing.

From memory the reason snow meant possible abandonment of their plan is because fresh snow would highlight their footprints, making them easy to follow and track down.

[Michael Stephen Bell Jr.]

From memory the reason snow meant possible abandonment of their plan is because fresh snow would highlight their footprints, making them easy to follow and track down.

Yeah, and that seems to be a really silly reason to abandon their plans to me. They could have been tracked anyway, Chett just felt that old man Wythers would more likely just hightail it back to the Wall. Chett also said that the snow would make it impossible to find their stored supplies that they had hidden in preparation and that it might increase the likelihood that a horse would break something. It could have been a brief flurry for all he knew and a horse can always have a mishap no matter what the weather. Point being, if your plan is going to be derailed by a little thing like some snow BEYOND THE FREAKING WALL (how unheard of), then it was probably a pretty stupid plan to begin with.

Still, given all that it was a good deal better than the prologue to AFFC.

[Xray the Enforcer]

If you think that both of the characters in the prologue of AFFC are "generic nobodies," then you are not reading very carefully.

[Michael Stephen Bell Jr.]

If you think that both of the characters in the prologue of AFFC are "generic nobodies," then you are not reading very carefully.

Aside from the fact that you picked two words out of my entire post to quibble about, what I also find amusing about your post is that there are far more characters than two featured in the prologue (since you use the word "both") so I have to wonder if you read it all that carefully yourself.

Also, would you care to elaborate on your pithy one sentence comment? What deep characterization have I failed to grasp in the account of Pate's angst filled yearning for the barmaid's hymen?

[Slychd]

Aside from the fact that you picked two words out of my entire post to quibble about, what I also find amusing about your post is that there are far more characters than two featured in the prologue (since you use the word "both") so I have to wonder if you read it all that carefully yourself.

Also, would you care to elaborate on your pithy one sentence comment? What deep characterization have I failed to grasp in the account of Pate's angst filled yearning for the barmaid's hymen?

LOL that's some sassy talk to a moderator.

The prologue and the last chapter go hand in hand. Only one character in the prologue should stand out to you, two if you have finished the novel and read the last chapter.

[tarantella]

I wonder if you could edit AFFC and ADWD into a single 2,000+ page monster tome and make it work.

[Michael Stephen Bell Jr.]

LOL that's some sassy talk to a moderator.

The prologue and the last chapter go hand in hand. Only one character in the prologue should stand out to you, two if you have finished the novel and read the last chapter.

The moderator started it with the rather insulting statement about either my reading abilities or the effort I am putting forth.

As to your point:

So Martin was intending to bore us with most of the characters and their little side stories! I must say that is an interesting narrative technique and one I haven't seen employed very frequently. Brave man.

I think that the fact that I don't recall the events of the last chapter you are referencing doesn't really work in the writer's favor, in fact I think it would work just the opposite. Since I began my rereading project before I move on to ADWD (it is sitting on my bookshelf taunting me as I type this) in order to refresh my memory so I wouldn't have to be constantly asking myself "Who was that guy again?" I have found that where the first three novels are concerned I need not have bothered (aside from just enjoying the stories all over again) because they remained almost as vivid as when I had first read them. I knew AFFC would be the one that I really needed to bring back to mind as it just wasn't all that memorable.

Of course now I know Martin wanted it that way. Sneaky! :ninja:

[Slychd]

The moderator started it with the rather insulting statement about either my reading abilities or the effort I am putting forth.

As to your point:

So Martin was intending to bore us with most of the characters and their little side stories! I must say that is an interesting narrative technique and one I haven't seen employed very frequently. Brave man.

I think that the fact that I don't recall the events of the last chapter you are referencing doesn't really work in the writer's favor, in fact I think it would work just the opposite. Since I began my rereading project before I move on to ADWD (it is sitting on my bookshelf taunting me as I type this) in order to refresh my memory so I wouldn't have to be constantly asking myself "Who was that guy again?" I have found that where the first three novels are concerned I need not have bothered (aside from just enjoying the stories all over again) because they remained almost as vivid as when I had first read them. I knew AFFC would be the one that I really needed to bring back to mind as it just wasn't all that memorable.

Of course now I know Martin wanted it that way. Sneaky! :ninja:

I do not feel it was the author's intent to bore us with those characters and their side stories, and I am sorry if you found it so. Was that prologue the most exciting thing ever written? No, I don't think so, but it makes more sense after having read the final chapter of the book.

There is a faceless man assassin at the Citadel posing as the little acolyte who died in the prologue and he has a key.

AFFC does have some issues, but I don't think anything was added as filler, least of all the prologue. We may not know its reason for being there yet, but one day we will say, "Aha, that's what that was for!". It may not be in ADWD, I have not finished it yet, but by the end of the series, I am confident it will make sense.

[Michael Stephen Bell Jr.]

I do not feel it was the author's intent to bore us with those characters and their side stories, and I am sorry if you found it so. Was that prologue the most exciting thing ever written? No, I don't think so, but it makes more sense after having read the final chapter of the book.

I was merely responding to your assertion that Martin only meant for us to find one or two of the characters at all memorable. It was an attempt at humor in light of your response as I don't genuinely believe that any author seeks to bore her readers. As to whether the prologue has some relevance to the later story, well I would certainly hope so or else why include it in the book? I wasn't arguing for its pointlessness, merely its quality when compared to the ones that came before.

AFFC does have some issues, but I don't think anything was added as filler, least of all the prologue. We may not know its reason for being there yet, but one day we will say, "Aha, that's what that was for!". It may not be in ADWD, I have not finished it yet, but by the end of the series, I am confident it will make sense.

I don't think I would term the prologue filler, I just maintain what I wrote in my initial post, that it is the weakest of the prologues to this point (I haven't read ADWD's yet). I also think this is a microcosm of the book as a whole in that it is the weakest in the series (that I have read) and I know I am not alone in feeling this way. I don't hate the book nor do I feel I am slandering Martin as a writer by merely stating this one wasn't his best.

[Slychd]

I don't think I would term the prologue filler, I just maintain what I wrote in my initial post, that it is the weakest of the prologues to this point (I haven't read ADWD's yet). I also think this is a microcosm of the book as a whole in that it is the weakest in the series (that I have read) and I know I am not alone in feeling this way. I don't hate the book nor do I feel I am slandering Martin as a writer by merely stating this one wasn't his best.

I will grant it's not the best of the series, AFFC (and I fear ADWD as well) will suffer from "middle-child syndrome", if you will. They will be props to set up the endgame and probably infuriate many readers who don't look at the series as a (uncompleted) whole. I can see why the author had issue with deadlines on both books, those middle children are always troublesome :)

[Fournaridis]

Since I am new to the series, I have read the books one after the other. After Storm of Swords, I didn't think Martin could or would keep up the intensity. But also after book 3, I needed a slightly slower book to catch my breath. I really like AFfC. It's not as action packed as SoS or GoT, but I am enjoying it more than Clash of Kings.

I really, really, really like the way you put that. I too, read the reviews to AFfC before I started reading it - and, after reading all the negative backlash, I was prepared to hate it. But, different strokes for different folks, I suppose. I loved it. I needed something slower, more low key after ASoS.

And, maybe it's me - but, I'm such a fan of the whole SOIAF universe that anything - and, I do mean anything - that qualifies as new information about the universe itself I find fascinating, so, it did the trick, for what it's worth.

[An Ironborn Son]

Start with the prologue. It is by far the weakest in the series thus far, and I think this has been a trend throughout the series, with each prologue weaker than the one that came before.

AGOT: Introduces us to this great world Martin has created, and does it with tense gripping prose filled with menace. It starts this page turner off with a bang and the book rarely lets us catch our breath.

ACOK: Not as tight, but it introduces us to Stannis Baratheon and gives us a basis for some emotional attachment, plus it sets the religious themes for the book to come and gives us the all too brief tragedy of Cressen. Gripping stuff on the whole.

ASOS: Here we follow Chett's evil plot and its dissolution due to the Others. The plot seemed rather weak and Chett's plan following the assassinations seemed particularly stupid, but you could write this off to Chett being a moron. However the reason he abandons the idea was particularly silly. A little snow aborts your plans? Err...it wasn't a blizzard was it? But still, death via Others is pretty menacing.

AFFC: We are introduced to a slew of new characters in a entirely new setting, which isn't a problem in and of itself, but the characters are so generic and bland as to generate a giant 'Who cares?' from the readers. This could be said primarily of Pate who is basically some moron who wants to come up with some dough in order to deflower a barmaid. So he gives some mystery man something and dies in an extremely vague way. Uhhh...okay. Not nearly as gripping as any of the prior installments.

To be fair, I think it's hard to compare any of the prologues to each other because they all seem to fill different storytelling needs. The first seems to be better and gripping because it has a very tense scene as you said though I kind it rings similarly to AFFC's opening in that it is an event that happens and the reader sees little of that menace until several books later.

The prologue to ACOK also strikes me comparable to AFFC in terms of introducing a tragic figure. Sure, Cressen seems to be sacrificing for a nobler course than Pate but for a simple man to betray his friends in such a manner seems no less touching, at least on an empathetic level.

ASOS gives us a more exciting start to be sure with the Others being right around the corner. Although I personally don't like it very much because we follow Chett with his grand scheme for most of the pages and it ultimately is meaningless.

I think AFFC as a book is different in that I think throughout we are shown more of the macro view of Westeros. In the earlier novels, the reader only sees the world through a few narrow viewpoints, never getting to see how all of these wars were impacting the people. So while we don't get to hear from Dany and the others we get a richer picture of the whole landscape.