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Jon Targaryen

[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] Daenerys 3 - Spoilers for ADWD

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Mikey

Both Illyrio and Xaro administer many servants, in both their households and their professions. Both act as merchants, which generally employ large number of individuals and do possess steward characteristics, such as controlling governmental offices. Tolkien's Denethor is a good example of a steward who resembled a lord, as well the Tyrell who took control of Highgarden. A magister would fit this description or possibly a merchant prince. Varys has his "little birds", but no described household, which the other two have. Like I said, no guess is perfect. People choose the evidence they want, which supports their answer, and then disregard the rest. In all honesty, the reason I choose Xaro as my candidate is how he remerged in the spoiler chapters and threatens Dany. He seems like an important figure, who has the ability to thwart her plans. Also, a character of his magnitude seems like he should be in the same prophecy as the rest of her visitors, but the "perfumed seneschal" is the only choice that could describe him.

Artanaro

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I'm still leaning toward Illyrio if only because Xaro is right there with Dany at the time. She knows to be wary of him.

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I think one issue depends on whether a certain someone caused the Golden Company to break contract or they did it on their own. A Tyrion Spoiler could indicate that they will arrive before him, which could mean the pale mare is a personal sigil for a female descendant of Bittersteel, like the Blackfish, etc.

However, if they are travelling with the son, that does tend to point to the mummer's dragon.

I sort of got the impression that Euron wasn't coming to Dany himself, but no other obvious crows come to mind. Marwyn might be a raven or a bulldog, but a crow seems odd. It might well be a black brother, oddly enough.

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I posted this same message in another thread, but it seems very applicable here.

I looked up the definition of seneschal on dictionary.com, since I had no idea what the word meant.

That sounds much less like Varys and more like someone named Illyrio. But there are many candidates for this person beyond even him, in particular Xaro Xhoan Daxos. Let's examine both cases.

Arguement for Illyrio

1. He is a magister with a considerable number of servants at his command. The text notes Unsullied are used as his household guard, while from Dany's AGOT chapters, Illyrio provides servants to teach her the Dothraki tongue and horseback riding. He does fit a definition of a possible seneschal.

Arguement against:

1. Illyrio is working with Varys to return Targaryen's to the throne. Betrayal needs a motive. Queenmaking is quite profitable, so any benefit from hurting Dany would be far outweighed by supporting her. Another reason must exist besides monetary gain.

2. Why provide Dany with Barristan and Strong Belwas? Both have proved trustworthy and valuable additions to her party.

Arguement for Xaro Xhoan Daxos:

1. From ACOK, Xaro's home is described as "a palace larger than many a market town" with "slaves to tend her every need" (p. 320 US Hardcover). Xaro is described as surrounding himself with silks and possessing his own pleasure barge. A perfumed seneschal is an appropriate title for Xaro.

2. Xaro clearly coveted Dany's dragons, as seen my his courting her for a wife, despite having no desire for women.

3. From the spoiler chapters, Xaro has already threatened Dany with "war."

Arguement against:

1. Xaro is a merchant prince of Qarth. A seneschal does seem to imply an absence of royalty, which would make more sense then for Varys or Illyrio to be the ideal candidates since both were born poor.

Arguement for Varys:

1. An accurate take on Varys is definitely "perfumed." He often wear silks and colorful garb.

2. Varys is in a very good position to ruin Dany's plans. He has a professed animosity towards all magic users, and must of heard the link between Dragons and magic.

Arguement against:

1. Why go through the effort to get Dorne's backing for Dany, marry her to Khal Drogo, and acquire Tyrion's assistance if he only intends to betray her. That is alot of unnecessary work.

2. Though Varys has his "little birds", he doesn't quite fit the definition of a steward. He deals in secrets, not in ruling a household.

For my take, it seems apparant that Xaro is the prime candidate, but it's not a perfect guess.

Artanaro

I'm certain Varys wants Danys 'Dragons' dead, that doesnt mean he wants HER dead, he might offer her the crown for the death of her dragons

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Re-reading the AFFC appendices I'm comvinced that something will be brewing with the Khals. We have a renewed addition in the forms of two Khals as "uncertain allies" and two Khals as "known enemies". It seems likely that Pale Mare is some sort of Dothrake reference just based on that.

I think it's safe to say this because the appendix as we have it now clearly seems to have been designed for AFFC and ADWD both (for instance there is also new info on Northern Lords and clans which do not feature in AFFC at all).

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Jon Connington was a close friend of Rhaegar and the second Hand after Tywin quit. He lost to Robert at the Battle of the Bells and was exiled. Supposedly he died there but apparently he is still alive.

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has anyone thought of the mummers dragon being stannis??

I came to this thought when you look at bible lore.... there will be the anti christ before christ comes back right??

Same thing applies here i reckon, mel thinks he is, he has a sword that shines but no heat comes off it. he was lord of dragonstone......

There are a lot of connections there...

Aemon said that stannis wasn't it but dany was.

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I have to agree there, the mummers dragon is probably stannis. He is an importanct character obvously, but his power seems to be based on falsehood.

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I'm not sure that this is the proper place to ask, but where can I see the actual excerpt. I found one of Daenerys on George RR Martin's official site, but I cannot find full text of the rest. Is there full text available for any of them?

Thanks so much.

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You can buy three Dany chapters in a little booklet on Ebay.

Thank you! Are the Jon and Tyrion chapters available in similar booklets? Or elsewhere?

Thanks again!

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No. The three Dany chapters were released to publishers at some bookseller convention thing. They will be under "A Feast for Crows" even though they are in ADWD. The Jon and Tyrion chapters were read by GRRM at conventions.

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No. The three Dany chapters were released to publishers at some bookseller convention thing. They will be under "A Feast for Crows" even though they are in ADWD. The Jon and Tyrion chapters were read by GRRM at conventions.

I went on e-bay but couldnt find the dany booklet, could you please post the link, id really appreciate it

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I went on e-bay but couldnt find the dany booklet, could you please post the link, id really appreciate it

Here is one that you can buy pretty cheap.

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"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare. After her will come the others [no caps]. Crow and kraken, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Remember the undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

This will be a little disjointed I haven't thought it all these are just my first reactions to the quote.

We kmow from the end of AFFC that the glass candles are burning in the citedel. Could this be her way

of being told that other people/places know about the dragons and are going to come find them.

IMO:

Crow:Samwell

Krakem: Asha Greyjoy

Lion: Tyrion

Griffin: Griff (whoever he turns out to be)

Sun's son: Martell

Mummer's dragon: (I'm still mulling this one over)

Remember the undying: could this be refrence to The Others or the things she saw or learned from the place with men with the blue lips.

Beware of the perfumed seneschal: I assume Variys. After reading the pros and cons and the debate over what makes a seneschal I'm going to throw this out for reaction: perfumed seneschal=Littlefinger? I think there are others plans for him and that it's not likely him. I just wanted to see what you thought.

I don't have full thoughts on Pale Mare yet.

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I think the Kraken is obviously Victarion Greyjoy; he is heading towards Dany with the Iron Fleet.

Eventually Sam could be the crow that goes to Dany, but right now he will stay at the Citadel until Jon orders him otherwise I'm thinking. Otherwise, he would have left with Marwyn.

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We know from the end of AFFC that the glass candles are burning in the Citadel. Could this be her way of being told that other people/places know about the dragons and are going to come find them?

We also know (from ACoK) that the Warlocks in Qarth are burning glass candles. Of course, we had no idea what this meant until AFfC.

Crow: Samwell

Kraken: Asha Greyjoy

Lion: Tyrion

Griffin: Griff (whoever he turns out to be)

Sun's son: Martell

Mummer's dragon: (I'm still mulling this one over)

The phrasing of the prophecy suggests (though it's not definitive) that these six are coming in pairs: crow and kraken, lion and griffin, sun's son and mummer's dragon.

We know Victarion's headed to Dany. He would certainly fit as the kraken. The crow might be Euron, though at the moment it appears that Victarion is going in Euron's place, not with Euron. The crow might be a member of the Night's Watch, though we know of no such person headed to Dany, and there seems little likelihood one would be travelling with Victarion.

Given what we know from the Tyrion spoiler chapters, it seems clear he's the lion and the griffin must be Griff - Young or Old. They're likely to meet up before going to Dany.

There are only two candidates in the book for the sun's son: Quentyn and Trystan Martell. We know from AFfC that Quentyn is headed Dany's way, so that settles that. The real puzzler of the whole prophecy is the identity of the mummer's dragon. At this point, we don't have nearly enough info to decide.

Remember the undying: could this be refrence to the Others or the things she saw or learned from the place with men with the blue lips?

I assume it's not the Others: why would Dany remember them? As to what the prophecy means, I see two potential (and not mutually exclusive) possibilities. It could mean "Remember what you learned in the House of the Undying." It could also mean "Remember that the Undying want to kill you." These are both good things for her to remember.

Beware of the perfumed seneschal: I assume Varys. After reading the pros and cons and the debate over what makes a seneschal I'm going to throw this out for reaction: perfumed seneschal=Littlefinger?

I don't like Littlefinger for this, simply because he's not likely to be a big part of her story until she reaches Westeros. The prophecy seems to refer to things affecting her in the slave cities. I think it's either Varys, Illyrio, Xaro or else someone helping her rule Meereen. (Or is it Astapor? I always mix up the two.)

I don't have full thoughts on Pale Mare yet.

Speculation seems to focus on two areas: the Golden Company and the Dothraki.

A horse is obvious as a sigil for the Dothraki, but why pale, and why female?

We know (or at least suspect) the Golden Company's headed to Dany, but this works only if it is led/accompanied by a woman whose standard is a light-colored horse on a dark background (or maybe she's pale and the standard is a horse). Lots of ifs here.

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im scraping my crackpot here:

Crow: Benjen Stark. damn near impossible, but he knows that someone needs to beat the Others, and if he could get Dany Beyond the Wall thing would work so much better. Coldhands would have to satisfy some role of a wight/fallen brother who knows where Benjen went, though.

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