College Football 2011

[S John]

If you don't intend offense then don't type that.

Sorry. To be clear I simply meant that West Virginia has no business being in a conference with teams from Texas and Iowa (TCU included). One of the great things about the sport is regionalism and there is no history at all between WVU and any of the current Big 12 schools. If it makes you feel any better I wouldn't want to be in the same conference as Texas or OU either, but for the merger to take place they would likely be gone - hence Baylor and Iowa State are examples.

I can honestly say that while I would be excited to play a team like Texas, to me it still wouldn't be as good as having games with teams from the area like VT, Penn State, Ohio State, Pitt, etc.

[Rhom]

None of which should matter for an athletic conference anyway.

Amen. I hate to keep bringing it up, but I still think DeMarcus Cousins said it best when it said "Its a basketball game, not a spelling bee."

So the Pac-12 is happy for now. The press release mentiones something about a "culture of equality." Smart, smart people. Well, things are going to be a little wierd around the Big-12 for a now I guess.

From what I understand, "culture of equality" is code for "Texas was so arrogant that they demanded an unequal revenue split." Honestly, I don't understand the UT mentality... they have already destroyed one conference by demanding a greater share than the rest and now they have torpedoed another deal.

I do wonder where this leaves things for now. Seemingly, the dominoes have stopped falling for the time being. However, both the Big East and Big XII are in less than teneble positions with their significantly reduced numbers. However, there also are not enough gone for them to merge either. IF the SEC and ACC are content to stand on 14 members, then it would appear that a tenuous stability has been reached. Even so, I'm certain that UConn is still aching for the ACC and that would put the Big East in an even worse state.

Ultimately, I'm not sure how a Big XII with only 8 members and a Big East with even fewer can maintain their AQ status. Texas and Oklahoma should be enough to keep it for the Big XII, but WVU isn't enough to carry the weight for the entire conference. Talk of adding the service academies and ECU/Central Florida will fail to impress as well.

[Rhom]

This Vanderbilt blogger put together a geographical map of how the Superconferences look to be shaking out. Its a little overwhelming.

[Reposado]

In terms of the 14-team SEC, some interesting schedule decisions come up. If they keep it the same, that would 6 games against your own division. one against your cross division rival. and two on a rotating basis. so with auburn moving east, alabama would be their permanent western opponent, which means alabama tennessee would move from every year, to every three years.

on the other hand, i like the potential of rivalries developing between UGA and A&M , and Mizzou-Tennessee

[S John]

Amen. I hate to keep bringing it up, but I still think DeMarcus Cousins said it best when it said "Its a basketball game, not a spelling bee."

Mr. Cousins and I are in agreement, it seems. :laugh:

Another thing is - a lot of the fans of a given school are not students or alumni. Especially in big college football states. That includes big swaths of the midwest and most of the South. Often people are fans of the local University teams because that is the biggest game in town. So when debating the merits of a sports program with fans of another team.. its like.. well that's great that your teams academics are awesome - but what in the hell does that have to do with the final score today? To take it even further, college football has gotten to the point where fans are bragging about the potential media markets they bring - which again, has nothing at all to do with on field performance. If folks don't think that is disgusting, then I'm not sure I've got much else to say on that topic. And that really is what its become lately.

From what I understand, "culture of equality" is code for "Texas was so arrogant that they demanded an unequal revenue split." Honestly, I don't understand the UT mentality... they have already destroyed one conference by demanding a greater share than the rest and now they have torpedoed another deal

I don't know what their game is either. Are they surprised that stable conferences aren't lining up to be bullied around?

I do wonder where this leaves things for now. Seemingly, the dominoes have stopped falling for the time being. However, both the Big East and Big XII are in less than teneble positions with their significantly reduced numbers. However, there also are not enough gone for them to merge either. IF the SEC and ACC are content to stand on 14 members, then it would appear that a tenuous stability has been reached. Even so, I'm certain that UConn is still aching for the ACC and that would put the Big East in an even worse state.

Ultimately, I'm not sure how a Big XII with only 8 members and a Big East with even fewer can maintain their AQ status. Texas and Oklahoma should be enough to keep it for the Big XII, but WVU isn't enough to carry the weight for the entire conference. Talk of adding the service academies and ECU/Central Florida will fail to impress as well.

The Big East is dead. As you say, the commissioners brilliant plan is to add service academies and state schools who are way don on the list in prominence in their state. One way or another, I do not expect WVU to be a Big East member 1 year from now. One possibility I've heard is the Big XII adds Louisville, WVU, and BYU to get back to 12. This is better than the Big East. Hell its much better than the Big East before Pitt and Syracuse left. But as I mentioned to Green Apple Fossaway above, I am not thrilled about that conference footprint and I am not thrilled about having to be Texas' bitch. Its better than being out in the cold, but I don't sense a lot of stability in that destination either. And that also leaves basically one away game within driving distance - Louisville.

Alternatively, if Missouri commits to staying in the Big 12, perhaps the SEC does indeed add WVU as #14 after all.

Unlikely rumor of the day: SEC goes to 16 with WVU, Missouri, Texas A&M, and Florida State. Dun Dun DUNNN!

[Rhom]

Another thing is - a lot of the fans of a given school are not students or alumni. Especially in big college football states. That includes big swaths of the midwest and most of the South. Often people are fans of the local University teams because that is the biggest game in town. So when debating the merits of a sports program with fans of another team.. its like.. well that's great that your teams academics are awesome - but what in the hell does that have to do with the final score today? To take it even further, college football has gotten to the point where fans are bragging about the potential media markets they bring - which again, has nothing at all to do with on field performance. If folks don't think that is disgusting, then I'm not sure I've got much else to say on that topic. And that really is what its become lately.

I agree whole-heartedly with this. Honestly, I don’t see why the SEC is so border-centric. Yes, markets are important, but nobody will deny that the SEC is already carrying the NATIONAL market. What does adding additional media markets really do? People in Oregon already want to watch Alabama-Auburn, Florida-Georgia, LSU-Miss. St. because these games have a national (read: national title) implications.

In my opinion, building up ratings for the games they already have is what they should be concerned with. WVU versus Florida? I’d watch. I bet most football fans in the country would too. I doesn’t matter that WVU didn’t add 6 million more TV sets to the SEC footprint, what should matter is that the SEC just added 6 more games that have a national interest.

Unlikely rumor of the day: SEC goes to 16 with WVU, Missouri, Texas A&M, and Florida State. Dun Dun DUNNN!

Wasn't that the first unlikely rumor of last week when the talk of expansion to 16 first hit?!!? :lol:

[Kalbear]

Yes - and it remains as untrue now as it did then. Florida has veto power over bringing in anyone from their state and they'd almost certainly use it in that case.

[S John]

I agree whole-heartedly with this. Honestly, I don’t see why the SEC is so border-centric. Yes, markets are important, but nobody will deny that the SEC is already carrying the NATIONAL market. What does adding additional media markets really do? People in Oregon already want to watch Alabama-Auburn, Florida-Georgia, LSU-Miss. St. because these games have a national (read: national title) implications.

In my opinion, building up ratings for the games they already have is what they should be concerned with. WVU versus Florida? I’d watch. I bet most football fans in the country would too. I doesn’t matter that WVU didn’t add 6 million more TV sets to the SEC footprint, what should matter is that the SEC just added 6 more games that have a national interest.

That is an interesting point regarding the SEC. Most of the teams in the SEC don't deliver much in the way of their own TV markets. The SEC's bread and butter is not TV markets, its the brand. Its putting out a product that people all over the country are interested in. It helps that the South is home to many of the most fervent fan-bases, but its undeniable that the SEC enjoys a great deal of National interest. We're going to get a prime example this Saturday when LSU plays in Morgantown. People outside of West Virginia and Louisiana are going to watch that game, regardless of how many households there are in West Virginia.

Wasn't that the first unlikely rumor of last week when the talk of expansion to 16 first hit?!!? :lol:

We have come full circle. :grouphug: And to Kal - I don't buy it either.

[Rhom]

Quantum Leap starring Dan Beebe

I thought this was really funny.

[HokieStone]

None of which should matter for an athletic conference anyway.

With all due respect, I don't think you really understand what Universities are looking for in a modern conference. And despite all your protestations, yes academics is a factor in this, and an academic relationship with the other schools in the conference is looked for...at least in the successful conferences. VT has benefited at least as much academically as they have athletically since joining the ACC. We have multiple academic partnerships with ACC schools, we've started a medical school in Roanoke, applications are at an all-time high - as is the quality of applicants. Lots of people from my era (early '90s) are convinced that we wouldn't be accepted to VT under today's standards. Do you think it's coincidence that all Big10 are AAU members (well, except that Nebraska just got kicked out)? The PAC-10 is a collection of good-to-great academic universities. The SEC is an exception, but they're the one conference that is just hell-bent on dominating athletically. Well, at least in football - in most other sports, they're a rather humdrum conference.

Re: beer sales. Who gives a fuck? Are you guys serious about this argument? Are people really this prudish that adults having a fucking beer at a football game is something that WVU should be ashamed of. Absolutely ridiculous. And if it really were THE deal-breaker WVU would give it up. Its only been around for 2 games anyway. I don't see what is so terrible about selling beers at a ball game. For the record, Syracuse and Pitt sell beer as well. Guess they'll have to give that up in order to not offend the tee-totaling douchebags in the ACC. :rolleyes:

Nobody's worried about Syracuse and Pitt selling beer, because they can apparently handle their liquor.

Every stereotype has some truth in it, but the myth that all WVU fans are animals and that you will be harmed for going to Morgantown to watch a game is completely bogus. Its a legend that has grown much bigger than it actually is. Over 60,000 fans at a game, one guy throws something and now everybody is afraid to come and play games in Morgantown? Bullshit.

Except it's not bullshit, and it's not one guy out of 60,000. It's a LOT of guys in that 60,000. I'm sorry, but to pretend WVU fans aren't worse than other fan bases is just blind homerism. I've heard far too many first-hand accounts of threats and actual physical violence from WVU fans. I personally have been threatened at WVU games more than all other away games I've been too combined. I've been threatened in the offseason, just going on a camping trip in WVA. Nothing you say here will convince me that the general WVU fanbase is anything more than a drunken cesspool.

[lokisnow]

The Big East is dead.

Only if they want to be, they just need to ambitious. Let's say Rutgers and UConn go ACC, then invite Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas and Kansas State. While you're at it, invite Iowa State and Baylor and Texas Tech. Including TCU, That takes you up to twelve, and leaves Texas all by its lonesome, essentially forcing them to go independent. Why would virtually the entire conference want to move into the Big East? Equal Revenue Sharing and a new TV deal coming up.

Go Big or Go die, Big East, but I seriously doubt they're going to be so bold as pull this off. they'll make a few piddling invites to MAC and ConfUSA esque teams and the conference will still collapse, probably by the Big 12 making the bold move of inviting four of the remaining five Big East Teams.

[Eponine]

Re: academics. I've been over this before but WVU is a state funded public university in the 49th wealthiest state in the country. The reason that WVU academics are rated as low as they are is admission standards. It is very easy to get into WVU. And it is like that on purpose. ... None of which should matter for an athletic conference anyway.

Re: beer sales. Who gives a fuck? Are you guys serious about this argument? Are people really this prudish that adults having a fucking beer at a football game is something that WVU should be ashamed of. Absolutely ridiculous.

Well there you have it. You don't like the ACC culture, you don't care about the ACC culture, you wouldn't want to be part of the ACC culture if you weren't desperate, how is it again that the ACC has somehow wronged you?

WVU does have a disadvantage in academics that has nothing to do with football. But it's not like you were out there raising the standard by getting a degree from WVU and then accomplishing something that people could point to as a success of the WV university system. And I'm not saying you had any obligation to do so; I wouldn't have. Still, if WVU had legacy students, you'd have potentially been one, right? You can be as rah rah about the football team as you like, but maybe you should be more pissed off about how your state has failed its constituents and less about other people's football conferences.

And despite all your protestations, yes academics is a factor in this, and an academic relationship with the other schools in the conference is looked for...at least in the successful conferences. VT has benefited at least as much academically as they have athletically since joining the ACC. We have multiple academic partnerships with ACC schools, we've started a medical school in Roanoke, applications are at an all-time high - as is the quality of applicants. Lots of people from my era (early '90s) are convinced that we wouldn't be accepted to VT under today's standards.

I value my degree much more than I care that the football team does well, and it's ultimately to the advantage of the students and alumni - i.e. the people for whom the school exists, to be aligned with an academically strong group of schools. Anyone who says that academics considerations shouldn't matter for a university, in any aspect, has forgotten why the university is there. And maybe football has blown up so much that it should become non-amateur and disassociated from the university system, I'd hate to see that happen, but I don't know. If a school like VT was associated with East Carolina and directional Florida and so on, rather than with the ACC teams, I have no doubt that it would make a difference in academic perception. You, John, may have a connection to your team, but I have one with my university, and ultimately when my resume and I go into an interview, I want to hear "what a great education" and not "what a great team".

[Rhom]

I value my degree much more than I care that the football team does well, and it's ultimately to the advantage of the students and alumni - i.e. the people for whom the school exists, to be aligned with an academically strong group of schools. Anyone who says that academics considerations shouldn't matter for a university, in any aspect, has forgotten why the university is there. And maybe football has blown up so much that it should become non-amateur and disassociated from the university system, I'd hate to see that happen, but I don't know. If a school like VT was associated with East Carolina and directional Florida and so on, rather than with the ACC teams, I have no doubt that it would make a difference in academic perception. You, John, may have a connection to your team, but I have one with my university, and ultimately when my resume and I go into an interview, I want to hear "what a great education" and not "what a great team".

And can you explain to me what the fuck all athletic conferences have to do with academic partnerships? Is there some reason that Virginia Tech and Virginia were legally required not to team up to find a cure for genital warts prior to VT joining the ACC? Is there now more incentive for Boston College to debate the validity of Maccabees with Wake Forest? Is there some reason that North Carolina can't partner with WVU to research a drought resistant strain of tobacco that can better survive the trans-oceanic trip to emerging markets in Asia?

Pretty sure there's not. UK and UofL have partnered in recent years on medical advances and in an effort to get more Kentuckians a college education in general. It has nothing to do with their affiliation with the Big East and the SEC.