Arya's starting to scare me...

[Saxony]

This worry for Arya is kind of silly considering how strong she is. She's not some little girl who wimpers and worries and cries and wrings her hands and dreams of love - her chapters in GoT showed us that. She's always been the smart one who learned very early on the true meanings of honor and goodness.

She will never 'lose' herself because unlike most people, she was born strong. The seed in her is truly 'strong'.

As a matter of fact, now that I know Brienne, I can easily imagine Arya becoming very much like her.

And one little thing to remember concerning Arya's blindness - she counted to steps down to where Needle is buried. :thumbsup:

[Marc Hill]

She has lost value for human life.

It hasn't surprised me. Arya didn't seem too frightened after her first kill. I do like the parallel between her and her mother; they could both be called "Cat" and they both live solely out of hatred.

Exactly that's the most disturbing part about Arya for me. She has no regrets, no nightmares that haunt her, only dreams of hunting and more killing. It wasn't her right to kill Dareon no matter what because she is not in a position of authority. She isn't in Winterfell or even Westeros where being a man of the Night's Watch has some meaning. She was ok in ASOS, but I don't like the way she's turning out in Braavos.

It's surprising to me that people are harping on Dareon so much. Lol he was a singer who was wrongly accused of rape and sent to the Wall; that sucks if you ask me. Plus, what was O So Great Lord Snow thinking when he sent Dareon to recruit men to take the black. We should be blaming him for leaving Sam with a man who was less grounded. The Night's Watch wasn't going to suddenly make Dareon an honorable man. Samwell was born into a lordly family so he has a much stronger sense of honor even though he's a craven.

I'm not making excuses for what Dareon did. It was wrong, that's clear. But for Arya to kill him without knowing anything about him was uncalled for.

[Marc Hill]

As a matter of fact, now that I know Brienne, I can easily imagine Arya becoming very much like her.

Haha are you joking? Brienne and Arya alike? They couldn't be further apart. Brienne, the only living child to succeed her lord father, was taught how to fight and how to be honorable in the face of derision and disdane. Arya, the younger daughter of House Stark, was thrown into horrible circumstances with barely a lick of skill-at-arms. Arya fights for vengeance, while Brienne fights for honor and justice.

I could write much and more about this topic but suffice it to say it's pretty clear in my opinion that Arya and Brienne are quite different maids.

[Saxony]

Arya is a child. Of course she fights for vengeance. But you can't say that honor and justice are lost on her. Right now she is clearly grasping for something to believe in, something to fight for. Do you really doubt her potential??

Edit: Upon re-reading your post:

Brienne, the only living child to succeed her lord father, was taught how to fight and how to be honorable in the face of derision and disdane.

I realized that you failed to make your point. I could replace Brienne with Arya there: Arya believes herself to be the only living child to succeed her father, was taught how to fight by Syrio, and how to be honorable by her father. And Arya has seen much derision and disdane herself.

Glad to see the Brienne love but it's obvious that there's something you don't like about the Starks.

[Marc Hill]

Arya is a child. Of course she fights for vengeance. But you can't say that honor and justice are lost on her. Right now she is clearly grasping for something to believe in, something to fight for. Do you really doubt her potential??

The question then becomes, potential for what?

[Marc Hill]

Edit: Upon re-reading your post:

Brienne, the only living child to succeed her lord father, was taught how to fight and how to be honorable in the face of derision and disdane.

I realized that you failed to make your point. I could replace Brienne with Arya there: Arya believes herself to be the only living child to succeed her father, was taught how to fight by Syrio, and how to be honorable by her father. And Arya has seen much derision and disdane herself.

Glad to see the Brienne love but it's obvious that there's something you don't like about the Starks.

It's always nice to see some blind loyalty to the Starks.

Anyway, let's get to the details. You can't substitute an only child with an orphan. I'm not sure what type of logic you're using, but the facts are that all of Brienne's siblings died as babies and one may have died as a toddler. Arya's family was viciously murdered.

I hope you can see the difference now.

[Sigrid]

This worry for Arya is kind of silly considering how strong she is. She's not some little girl who wimpers and worries and cries and wrings her hands and dreams of love - her chapters in GoT showed us that. She's always been the smart one who learned very early on the true meanings of honor and goodness.

She will never 'lose' herself because unlike most people, she was born strong. The seed in her is truly 'strong'.

As a matter of fact, now that I know Brienne, I can easily imagine Arya becoming very much like her.

I can't speak for anyone else, but to me the concern isn't for her physical well-being, it's concern (for lack of a better term) for her soul. Yes she is physically and psychologically strong to have survived what she has, but at the time I think that the trauma is having a negative effect on her.

I also disagree that she hasn't "lost herself". Part of her struggle is not knowing who she is. She's had so many names and identities at this point she questions it herself. To begin her training as a faceless man she had to let go of any identity. Obviously her retention of Needle means Arya Stark is still there, but since she was so young when the events of the story began I don't know how much sense of self she was able to develop independent of the trauma she's been through.

[Cruella]

1. Brienne and Arya are both capable of defending themselves in different ways... That's basically all they have in common. In fact, they are almost night and day personalities. One is an idealist, another survivalist, one desentisized to murder from childhood, another only killed first in mature age, in self defense, one is romantic, another pragmatist, one is honourable to the point of stupidity (in my opinion), another does what she can to survive and get revenge, one is only now beginning to realize how complicated the world is and how naive some of her black and white philosophical beliefs are, another was smacked in the face with knowledge of what the world is truly like at its worst. One is "child soldier" growing up to be an assassin, another a knight.
   

[Sigrid]

1. Brienne and Arya are both capable of defending themselves in different ways... That's basically all they have in common. In fact, they are almost night and day personalities. One is an idealist, another survivalist, one desentisized to murder from childhood, another only killed first in mature age, in self defense, one is romantic, another pragmatist, one is honourable to the point of stupidity (in my opinion), another does what she can to survive and get revenge, one is only now beginning to realize how complicated the world is and how naive some of her black and white philosophical beliefs are, another was smacked in the face with knowledge of what the world is truly like at its worst. One is "child soldier" growing up to be an assassin, another a knight.
   

I agree with all of this. They also have the similarity (obviously) of not being afraid to subvert westeros gender norms. I think Cat's fondness for Brienne is partly because she reminds her of Arya. I've also been rewatching the series and got to thinking about this topic. I wonder if Arya and Brienne would have been more alike if Ned had survived. However, as mentioned above, his death and the manner of it put Arya on a very different path.

[Saxony]

I can see what you're saying... IF I were trying to distinguish differences between the two.

But IF I were trying to find similarities in the two I would say:

They are both uncomfortable in their gender roles. Neither one wants/wanted to be a lady. Both wanted to be like men. (Not insinuating, just saying)

Relating to that, both of them were unafraid to persue their true desires.

Both of them are fighters, unlike most women in the story (unafraid and even good with weapons)

Both of the them have strong father figures (no daddy issues)

Both of them feel alone (are solitary/have no trusted other)

Both of them need only a good cause and they'd throw themselves in front of a train, or slice it to ribbons.

I see all of these things as the basic building blocks that make them who they are.

[Marc Hill]

I can see what you're getting at although the last point applies more so to Brienne than Arya.

Nevertheless, I hope you see that they are two different characters who differ more often than not. Think of it crudely as the difference between a wolf and a leopard. Yes you can list the similarities between them such as: hunters, meat eaters, give birth to live young etc. But at the end of the day, one's a cat and one's a canine.

[Sigrid]

I think the point was not necessarily a break down of the similarities and differences that exist between Arya and Brienne, but rather disagreement with your statement that Arya will become like Brienne. In as much as they are both female warriors, yes, Arya will be like Brienne. But as far as their actual character and demeanor is concerned Arya will never be like Brienne. That ship has sailed. The possibility that Arya could be the kind of person (emotionally, intellectually, morally, etc.) that Brienne is died with Ned. The character I can easily imagine Arya becoming like is the Hound given her current trajectory.

[Marc Hill]

I think the point was not necessarily a break down of the similarities and differences that exist between Arya and Brienne, but rather disagreement with your statement that Arya will become like Brienne. In as much as they are both female warriors, yes, Arya will be like Brienne. But as far as their actual character and demeanor is concerned Arya will never be like Brienne. That ship has sailed. The possibility that Arya could be the kind of person (emotionally, intellectually, morally, etc.) that Brienne is died with Ned. The character I can easily imagine Arya becoming like is the Hound given her current trajectory.

You have put so eloquently what I could not, many thanks.

[MostInterestingManWesteros]

I think the point was not necessarily a break down of the similarities and differences that exist between Arya and Brienne, but rather disagreement with your statement that Arya will become like Brienne. In as much as they are both female warriors, yes, Arya will be like Brienne. But as far as their actual character and demeanor is concerned Arya will never be like Brienne. That ship has sailed. The possibility that Arya could be the kind of person (emotionally, intellectually, morally, etc.) that Brienne is died with Ned. The character I can easily imagine Arya becoming like is the Hound given her current trajectory.

I can immagine an arc where if she doesn't get killed Arya gets tired of vengeance after a while and becomes somewhat wiser and more relaxed. I certainly don't think her honor has been tainted in any way, or that she's become a sociopath or anything like that. Arya has seen enough of the world of Westeros, even at a young age, to understand that in the game of thrones you win or you die. I'm not saying she's been a player, but I do believe she knows the stakes when she is put in a life or death situation and responds accordingly with overwhelming force. I will say that both her an Brienne fight fiercely when their life is on the line, and they both do not hesitate when it comes to killing.

Exactly that's the most disturbing part about Arya for me. She has no regrets, no nightmares that haunt her, only dreams of hunting and more killing. It wasn't her right to kill Dareon no matter what because she is not in a position of authority. She isn't in Winterfell or even Westeros where being a man of the Night's Watch has some meaning. She was ok in ASOS, but I don't like the way she's turning out in Braavos.

It's surprising to me that people are harping on Dareon so much. Lol he was a singer who was wrongly accused of rape and sent to the Wall; that sucks if you ask me. Plus, what was O So Great Lord Snow thinking when he sent Dareon to recruit men to take the black. We should be blaming him for leaving Sam with a man who was less grounded. The Night's Watch wasn't going to suddenly make Dareon an honorable man. Samwell was born into a lordly family so he has a much stronger sense of honor even though he's a craven.

I'm not making excuses for what Dareon did. It was wrong, that's clear. But for Arya to kill him without knowing anything about him was uncalled for.

Arya knew he was a deserter from the Nights Watch, as a Stark she has a duty to execute him. Ned did the same thing, how is this any different?

[KingStannis4thethrone]

Arya is one of my favourite characters in this series and she has been through so much already.

I was very sad to read that she went blind and hope she will still be able to take revenge against those on her list she repeats every night.

I think she was very wrong though to murder Dareon even if he had deserted the Nights Watch as she didn't have the authority and it was out of order!

[Dragon Punch]

Arya is one of my favourite characters in this series and she has been through so much already.

I was very sad to read that she went blind and hope she will still be able to take revenge against those on her list she repeats every night.

I think she was very wrong though to murder Dareon even if he had deserted the Nights Watch as she didn't have the authority and it was out of order!

You don't think that her being, in her mind, the last Stark left. And the duty of the Starks to execute deserters of the nights watch for thousands of years puts her actions quite in order? Sure she didn't do it like Ned would have at a block and hearing his last words and what not, but she didn't have a lot of options. She might not have been able taken him in direct combat as he is a man grown and a trained brother of the NW. And we have already seen she can kill without emotion (her first kill the stable boy did effect her but after that she became callous)

Also It's not like she would have murdered any other oath breaker just because she could, or if she was from any house other that Stark she wouldn't have done it. The whole point was that she was acting as Arya Stark of Winterfell not faceless man girl assassin as she hasnt killed anyone else since the tickler/polliver's squire. This kill disturbed people because it is the first she has done to a person who didn't directly threaten her, but it was a kill for the honor of her house not self defense or revenge.

Furthermore it is clear a mans life is forfeit once he deserts the nights watch so presumably anyone in westeros could execute him with impunity. it's just that northereners and the Starks especially believe in doing the excecuting personally.

[Errant Bard]

You don't think that her being, in her mind, the last Stark left. And the duty of the Starks to execute deserters of the nights watch for thousands of years puts her actions quite in order?

The same way that being Tyrion's brother and having to uphold the family's honour puts murdering Jory to order.

[Dragon Punch]

The same way that being Tyrion's brother and having to uphold the family's honour puts murdering Jory to order.

Those were very different situations. Eddard admitted (falsely) to ordering the unlawful arresting of Tyrion which caused Jamie to overreact by having his men kill Ned's as a show of force to (foolishly) scare the Starks into releasing Tyrion or just as stupid retaliation. Jory Cassel was in the wrong place at the wrong time and was unlawfully murdered, hence Jamie fleeing King's Landing afterward. Dareon was an oath breaker with a clear and lawful reason for death. If Sam were a stronger fighter and a harder man he could have done it himself and I think everyone would feel different about it.

I see Jamie's action as perhaps being honorable depending on perspective (Ned's guards and even Jory were not highborn enough and therefore not equal to Tyrion in Lannister eyes) but not lawfull. I see Arya's as being unequivocally both honorable and lawfull.

[Kryssi Snow]

I don't doubt that Arya's blindness is temporary. If I recall correctly, there are several blind novices there that keep the candles lit. I think it goes away. That said, I really want Arya to link up with Dany. The Stark house was never meant to rule; they were meant for service. She should give her sword to Dany, the rightful Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, and then reunite with her family (Bran/Rickon/Sansa are all still alive) and dedicate their service to the Queen.

[Spearsister]

I'm pretty sure the blindness is just going to be part of her training.

Also, I think it's great that she killed Dareon. Just goes to show she's a true Stark.