moon tea

[Awakened Edna]

I was thinking it could be used in dilute doses as a contraceptive.

[QhorinHalfhand]

i think that Pycelle is really hates the way cersei treats him, and rather hangs out with the young queen... and she is using his preference. i think she is leading cersei into her own trap with this moon tea. if you dot share your plans nobody can betray you.

[rezor]

I'm not a big Margaery fan, but I doubt she slept with anyone. Why would she risk such a carefully orchestrated marriage on suitors that are bound to tell if offered gold or the whip? It's possible she's got a thing going on with Loras, but if so, it'd be something they did before she moved to Kings Landing.

[rezor]

Margaery is a lot smarter than Cersei thinks but a slut she aint. I don't even think she slept with Renly like she says; she's been on horseback since she could walk; Cercei admits this herself, which makes her paranoia all that little bit more insane. She knows deep down that Margaery is clear so she deludes herself to make lying just that little bit easier. I think Pycelle knows perfectly well what Cercei is up to; also that he's at the top of her Little Black Book, so he says whatever he can to make himself appear useful. He'd have heard about Qyburn's little experiments too through Varys or another bird, so that would probably make lying even easier.

[is winter here yet ?]

i always read pycelle as a bit of a fraud tbh , i can see him lieing to get rid of cersei , but this isnt his planning , either ser kevan has become the biggest player (bar littlefinger !) , or tyrion and varys still have connections , but not read aDwD yet so ......

[playXray]

I'm not a big Margaery fan, but I doubt she slept with anyone. Why would she risk such a carefully orchestrated marriage on suitors that are bound to tell if offered gold or the whip? It's possible she's got a thing going on with Loras, but if so, it'd be something they did before she moved to Kings Landing.

I'm pretty sure Loras is not interested in women, least of all his own sister.

[Silmarien]

I think Moon tea is supposed to be an abortive, isn´t it? I think no woman would need to use it several times in a short span of time, since you only would use it when already pregnant; also, if she did, she would probably become very ill (medieval abortives weren´t jokes; they were poisons, only in doses too small to kill the mother...).

We're given the example of how moon tea ruined Lysa's ability to give birth to live babies, except one out of six. I think moon tea is rather dangeros, depending on the strength.

I don't understand why Arianne, heir to Dorne, is risking ruining her fertility by drinking moon tea EVERY day. It seems stupid, unless you have a reason for it.

[Your_Grace]

I don't think Margaery is sleeping around either. And I agree with everybody who says that the Tyrells are planning on something thus the moon tea thing. I mean, come on, they know the Lannisters are no good especially Cersei. And Pycelle IS a Lannister man so they wouldn't just ask for moon tea from him if they weren't planning anything. They have their own maesters.

[Ygrette]

I think moon tea is something very much like absinth. Not the alcoholic stuff we know now, but I mean the extract from Artemisia absinthum, a plant that is toxic (active ingredient: thujon) and stimulates female hormones responsible for contracting the uterus, hereby leading to bleedings and abortions. It is a very common plant and fairly easy to use in form of a bitter tea, but it has severe side effects and a noticeable toxicity. It has been used as a "pill after" in old times.

Oh, I just read that moon tea is made up from tansy, wormwood (=absinth), mint and honey, whereas I would assume that mint and honey are only added for the taste. Tansy is also very high in thujon.

So yes, it has severe side effects and is definitely not something you would want to drink on a daily basis.

I don't necessarily believe that Pycelle is telling the truth. He has been bought by Cersei before and witnesses at trials have been bought by Cersei before (Tyrion). So I really don't think anything being told in the trial has to be the truth. It's just that not many people would doubt the words of a septon or maester. I don't believe Margaery would be naive enough to trust Pycelle in that matter.

[now my watch begins]

I agree that the Tyrell's are playing the game very well, they have their own spies (Taena) and they know they are walking into a nest of snakes (or lions for that matter). We know they are well aware of this from the first meeting with Sansa and the Queen of thorns... I think they set a trap for Cersi - and I just think Pycelle played right into their hands. He is too old and too stupid to hatch something or join the Tyrells, it is how he survived all the recent reigns of the kings. Whomever is in power, he claims to serve and thus continues to survive. I do think we will see Loras return whole and glorious. We don't have a POV from the Tyrell's so we really don't know everything they are up to. We do know they are the hungriest social climbers known to the seven kingdoms. Marrying their daughter to 2 kings in order to make her a queen and then betrothing her to the boy king? They are grasping at power with all their hands and feet - desperately. I think they would do anything to gain power, which makes them more dangerous than anyone in the seven kingdoms.

[Peter Woolshirt]

I think the Moon tea was for Elinor Tyrell, one of Margaery's cousins and companions. Why? When Cersei confronts Margaery in the dungeon, Margaery says "Alla is gentle and shy, how can they do this to her? And Megga ... she laughs as loud as a dockside whore, I know, but inside she's still just a little girl." and "Alla and Megga are hardly more than children." She doesn't mention Elinor at all. And Elinor is betrothed to Alyn Ambrose in what appears to be a love match.

Why wouldn't Margaery have gotten the Moon tea from her own maester? I suspect that she knew that if she did, word would have gotten to the Mace Tyrell, and he would have barred Elinor from Margaery's circle. She had no clue that Pycelle would rat her out to Queen Cersei.

[Lan the Clever]

She may not be a virgin; maybe Taena is right and she had slept with Renly. I doubt he was that... passionate... but she looks enough like Loras to pretend. :blushing:

If that was the case, the problem wouldn't arise...if you get my meaning. :leer:

[Lady Lilac]

I find it hard to believe Margery would've asked Pycelle for moontea if she needed it herself. Even if she wasn't that bright, Lady Olenna definitely is and I expect she would've left her granddaughter with some precautions.

[Silvannister]

But we should not forget that also the septas examined Margery and found her not virgin...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm inclined to think that Margaery lost her virginity trying to produce an heir with Renly. Though he's gay, he would have still wanted to produce an heir. While I'm pretty sure she's not a virgin, I doubt she was sleeping with anyone during the time in which she was betrothed to Tommen. She's definitely not stupid. And Pycelle's word on anything is worth shit. My best guess is he just accused Margaery to kiss the Queen Regent's butt and consequently save his own butt.

[Sigrid]

I'm inclined to believe that its the Queen of Thorns and Margaery who are manipulating the situation for their own benefit.

If Margaery was indeed going to Pycelle to get moon tea to ward off pregnancy - she'd be a real fool. Better that she got one of her trusted maids to get the moon tea from one of the many maesters in K.L. Or get it brought over from Highgarden instead.

I completely agree with this. I don't think Margaery would have been so stupid as to go to Pycelle. I also don't think her grandmother would have left her if she wasn't confident Margaery could hold her own or at the very least follow instructions.

[Sigrid]

And am I the only one who thinks that perhaps Cersei was a little quick to trust Taena as much as she did?

Not at all. I was suspicious of her from the beginning. Maybe Taena was just out for herself and her biggest betrayal is that she got out of town and abandoned Cersei once she was going down. Maybe she was playing both sides for her bown benefit. I couldn't shake the feeling that the Tyrells would notice how much time she was spending with Cersei and the rewards her husband was getting. I feel she was in on something larger than her own gain.

[Sigrid]

I think moon tea is something very much like absinth. Not the alcoholic stuff we know now, but I mean the extract from Artemisia absinthum, a plant that is toxic (active ingredient: thujon) and stimulates female hormones responsible for contracting the uterus, hereby leading to bleedings and abortions. It is a very common plant and fairly easy to use in form of a bitter tea, but it has severe side effects and a noticeable toxicity. It has been used as a "pill after" in old times.

Oh, I just read that moon tea is made up from tansy, wormwood (=absinth), mint and honey, whereas I would assume that mint and honey are only added for the taste. Tansy is also very high in thujon.

So yes, it has severe side effects and is definitely not something you would want to drink on a daily basis.

I don't necessarily believe that Pycelle is telling the truth. He has been bought by Cersei before and witnesses at trials have been bought by Cersei before (Tyrion). So I really don't think anything being told in the trial has to be the truth. It's just that not many people would doubt the words of a septon or maester. I don't believe Margaery would be naive enough to trust Pycelle in that matter.

So this is outside the scope of the thread, but in reading your post it got me thinking about Jeyne Westerling. It seemed Lady Westerling was giving it to her on a regular basis. Was Jeyne just too naive to know what it was? Or maybe it was a diluted version and well hidden in other drinks?

[lyvyathan]

I completely agree with this. I don't think Margaery would have been so stupid as to go to Pycelle. I also don't think her grandmother would have left her if she wasn't confident Margaery could hold her own or at the very least follow instructions.

Especially so if you take into account old Granny's attention to detail - like how she took special attention to asking Sansa about the emotional disposition of King Joff. I can't see the old girl allowing her precious granddaughter to fate and Cersei's loving care.

[Blangadanger]

Wait, wait, wait. So you all think Cersei actually believes Margaery was sleeping around? Hasn't Cersei been manipulating everyone into lying for her?

AFFC Spoilers:

She uses Qyburn to get a whimpering lie out of the Blue Bard, she threatens Pycelle until he lies about giving Moon Tea to Margaery, and she offers intimate rewards to Osney Kettleblack so that he'll bring the accusations to the High Septon. Whether any of the "evidence" is true or not matters not to Cersei; she just wants it to be believable enough to get Margaery removed from her power.

In my opinion, I don't think any of what Cersei says about Margaery is true. She creates lies and then finds ways to support the lies, until she is certain that they are fact in the public eye. She doesn't understand the game nearly as well as she thinks she does however, and that will ultimately be her demise.

[Ser Lepus]

I was thinking it could be used in dilute doses as a contraceptive.

If pennyroyal is really the main active component, it could certainly induce mestrual flow and sterility in addittion ot being an abortifacient, so it could theorically work as a "day after" pill of sorts, but a very, very dangerous one: a high dose of pennyroyal messes with the liver; you couldn't use it the same way as an contraceptive, since a dose high enough to prevent pregnancy would end killing you.

I guess a noble girl who slips and makes love to some lady-killer rogue while drunk could use it as a "day after" pill, but a woman who regularly makes love (like Asha or Arianne) couldn't use it as an contraconceptive; they would have to wait until they were pregnant and use it as an abortificient, since taking it too often would kill them.

Wait, wait, wait. So you all think Cersei actually believes Margaery was sleeping around? Hasn't Cersei been manipulating everyone into lying for her?

I think Cersei thinks everybody is either stupid or doing vile things in secret; she has to boxes in her mind: "lackwit" and "corrupted".