NFL Preseason II

[Kalbear]

He was a horrible coach but a great offensive coordinator. His offenses hugely outperformed what they should have (particularly passing) but his overall team was horribly managed and dealt with. From the draft picks that were flat-out bad, to the trades and alienating his star players, to the mismanagement and bad playcalling on game day - he just didn't have good control.

[awesome possum]

Definitely not. Like most coordinators coming from New England, he was all hype with very little to show that he was capable of running a football team, let alone an entire franchise. If anything, he was the final lesson to the NFL that a coordinator having success in NE does not automatically guarantee a franchise success.

I also think he bought into the massive wunderkind hype (that or he was always completely full of himself) and let that instead of anything close to common sense rule his decisions.

[Mack Kilimaro]

Speaking of the Broncos, this is from Chris Mortensen on the Twitter:

Funny reading @Denver_Broncos a.m. blog. Working at own 1, Orton picked by Champ for TD; Tebow fumbles snap for safety; Quinn picked for TD

In fairness, that probably happens to a lot of teams early in training camp. But it's not as funny as when it happens to the Broncos.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Was McDaniels ever really given a shot to succeed? It seems like he had some early success, then struggled, and was kicked to the curb pretty quickly.

You miss Cutler? The guy is a quitter.

Whatever, Cutler was infinitely better than the QBs McD found. Was he given a chance? He took a team with young Pro Bowl talent on the verge of becoming play off contenders and cut/traded all those young pro bowlers. I mean we lost Brandon Marshall, Jay Cutler, and Peyton Hillis all in a two year span. We almost lost Champ Bailey because McDouche didn't want him back. And the guys we got in return are awful. HUGE BUSTS. McD took a young team on the rise and ran it into the ground. I don't understand how anyone could give him any support on what he did.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Yeah, Carimi has a ton of potential.

I think the other guy Simon mentioned was Chris Williams, who has - with the exception of a 4 game span in 2009 - been terrible at every part of the line they've tried him at.

Ahhhh...I didn't know Williams hadn't turned out well, I thought his problems were injury related. I know he played at Vanderbilt with Cutler. That sucks he isn't panning out. I wonder why the Bears didn't grab Ryan Harris before we brought him back. He was a free agent for over a week. And when he's playing well, he is bad ass.

[Jaime L]

In fairness, that probably happens to a lot of teams early in training camp. But it's not as funny as when it happens to the Broncos.

So, who has the leg up? I guess Tebow for only scoring -2 points?

I mean we lost Brandon Marshall, Jay Cutler, and Peyton Hillis all in a two year span.

Yeah, the Hillis trade was the other trainwreck move.

When the Browns are eating your lunch, things ain't going so hot.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

McDaniels came to Denver and did whatever he wanted. Just look at the drafting, Hoodie Jr. decided he knew better than the GM and drafted Robert Aeyrs instead of Clay Matthews. All of McDaniels success can be attributed to Mike Nolan's defense, which fell apart due to age, because McDaniels was too busy drafting bad offense players to replace good offense players. And at the end of the season Nolan got fired. :tantrum:

Jeez, I forgot about Nolan. That guy is the reason we won at all in McD's first season. McD fired or let walk every good coach we had. Dennison, the running backs coach, Nolan--anyone who could compete for his job. And he fielded the worst Broncos team and record we've seen a long time in Colorado.

Edit: haha, JL I just read your posts on the subject and as always you put it way better than I could.

Edit 2: I'm pulling for Shannahan and the 'Skins to rebound this year! I know they got it in them.

[Jaime L]

Edit 2: I'm pulling for Shannahan and the 'Skins to rebound this year! I know they got it in them.

Haha, that's probably the best thing about living in CO right now. About the only optimism I can get about the Skins this year is from Broncos fans who still have 100% faith in Shanny.

ETA: And Caliban and his 100% faith in Sexy Rexy.

[Gus]

As another Broncos fan it is hard to add anything to this except that I like Orton he got traded to Denver not really anything he could do about the situation. He is not a superstar but he works hard. I blame his failures on a one dimensional offense that once teams figured out Broncos was all pass at the second half of the both seasons they were easy to pick apart. I don't trust McD ability to pick people so I think Tebow is a lost cause.

[Maithanet]

I'm pulling for Shannahan and the 'Skins to rebound this year! I know they got it in them.

Thanks, I'm pulling for us too! I do not, however, know that they have it in them. Unless "it" is a decent young defense, an offense lacking any real weapons and another 6-10 season. Maybe that is what you meant, I don't want to put words in your mouth.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

As another Broncos fan it is hard to add anything to this except that I like Orton he got traded to Denver not really anything he could do about the situation. He is not a superstar but he works hard. I blame his failures on a one dimensional offense that once teams figured out Broncos was all pass at the second half of the both seasons they were easy to pick apart. I don't trust McD ability to pick people so I think Tebow is a lost cause.

Seconded. NeckBeard is underrated. He throws that mid range 20-25 yarder more accurately than any QB in the league. I can't for the life of me understand why Miami didn't make a stronger play for him during the free agency period.

[Zadok]

As others have intimated, I think this thought process is severely overrated; the idea that the Pats are overpaying a guy because he may give them insight on the team they came from. There is no way the Pats are paying for Ellis' two years under Ryan. The reality is the Pats need pass-rushers. They do not have to be Reggie White-esque; they need a player Who

1). ... is capable enough to grab a few sacks and keep passing offenses honest;

2). ... gives O-lines some difficulty by presenting a guy they cannot double-team (due to another double team somewhere else on the line);

3). ... is NOT injury prone (he's missed something like 3 games over the last 10 seasons; the counter to Ty Warren, who missed more games than he played over the last several years)

That's what $5 million buys you. Another team would have paid $4.6 (easy) so the Pats jump in and made their play. Its a smart move, a reasonable move, a move we have seen them make before. It makes a lot of sense, but its not exactly like Osi Umenyiora joined the Pats. He's a good fit. The Pats also brought Andre Carter into camp and he looked okay. The bottom line is that the Pats had BY FAR the worst third down D in football last season (in the rankings of NFL Third Down D, the distance between the Pats at #32 and the Bucs and #31 was the greatest disparity between any two consecutive teams) and somehow managed to finish 14-2. They lost in the playoffs, primarily because they could not pressure Mark Sanchez, a man who was once sacked by a shadow. The guys they have brought in don't have to win the game for the Pats; they just have to stop losing it.

It wasn't really a thought process, it was more of a joke. The problem is Ellis won't do any of those things(except maybe stay healthy) because he isn't very good. The Jets 3rd down defense was a nightmare last year because the DL was incapable of generating any kind of pass rush. The conversion % allowed was lower because of their excellent CBs but they also gave up something ridiculous like 22 plays over 20 yards on 3rd downs. And as much of a big deal was made about Ellis' 2 sacks against the Pats in the playoffs last year i'm sure you'll admit that those were coverage sacks and not a result of Ellis' ability to rush the passer.

[Jaime L]

I can't for the life of me understand why Miami didn't make a stronger play for him during the free agency period.

Because it was making Chad Henne sad.

[Stego]

Definitely not. Like most coordinators coming from New England, he was all hype with very little to show that he was capable of running a football team, let alone an entire franchise. If anything, he was the final lesson to the NFL that a coordinator having success in NE does not automatically guarantee a franchise success.

I also think he bought into the massive wunderkind hype (that or he was always completely full of himself) and let that instead of anything close to common sense rule his decisions.

The only thing he continued to prove was the brilliance is Bellichick's.

[Kalbear]

Orton wasn't exactly bad in Chicago - he just wasn't particularly good. He's an average QB. That's quite a bit better than what most folks have, and his upside are seasons like Hasselbeck's, I think. He'll probably make a pro bowl or two along the way.

[Lord O' Bones]

He's an average QB. That's quite a bit better than what most folks have

:lol:

[drawkcabi]

Gods I hope this isn't spam, if it is, mods do what you have to.

I would have pm'ed a few of you about this but that's kinda out right now.

Those of you who read my family issues thread know my uncle passed. He just got his 2011 Washington Redskins season tickets before he did.

The family is looking to sell them to help with some costs.

They're good seats I'm told, 4 tickets available, section 133 row 2, seats 1,2,9,10 for every pre-season and regular season home game and every home play-off game if there are any.

Anyone interested contact me at Ecuon1 at comcast dot net

I'll put you in contact with my cousin who's handling this.

[Kalbear]

Hey now -before you get all high and mighty stat-wise, think about how averages work.

You've got a few QBs that are just REALLY REALLY GOOD. So that skews the value up. Then you've got...well, some atrociously bad QBs. That sends it down again. The value of all the really bad QBs in the league balances it out, but it's not like there aren't more than 16 worse QBs right now.

Let's see, who is better?

Brady

Manning

Brees

Vick

Rodgers

Romo when healthy (which is not that often)

Cutler arguably

Ryan

Flacco, maybe

Elisha

Rivers

Sanchez if you're generous

Ben

probably Freeman

and probably Bradford

Now, who is worse?

Carolina's QB, whoever it is

Buffalo's QB, whoever it is

Cinci's QB

Cleveland's QB

Arizona's QB - sorry, Kolb hasn't proven shit to me

Seahawk's QB

49ers' QB

Washington's QB, whoever it is

Raider's QB

at this point, sadly, McNabb

whoever's QB in Detroit

Tennessee's QB, take your pick

Jacksonville's QB, most likely

Schaub (this is arguable, but his injury prone and meltdown issues in big games is bad to me)

Cassell

Henne

plus I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two. He's right in the middle there,comparable to Sanchez (probably better, honestly), Flacco, and maybe Freeman (though Freeman has higher upside).

[Lord O' Bones]

Hey now -before you get all high and mighty stat-wise, think about how averages work.

Are you talking to me? If so, I'm probably the least stat-wise of any poster in this thread. But you have to admit that that statement in a vacuum is pretty funny.

ETA: And even now pressurized you're still selling me a 15/16 split.

Edit2: Yes, arguably 16 counts as a majority.

Edit3: Drawk, you're not just some random fuck trying to sell us something. You're our Drawk. I'm sure your post is perfectly fine.

[Kalbear]

That's fair. :)