Redemption - Only for Guys?

[Currawong]

I don't know that I really 'need' Cersei to be redeemed.

I have to admit that there is a wonderful fascination in seeing such a well-written character slowly progressing down the path of self-destruction, ignoring the advice and assistance of those who would genuinely try to help her. She has always been very focused on what she sees as protecting her children, but along the way it has also grown into 'protect Cersei herself at all costs'. I felt desperately sorry for her in the WoS, because it was a punishment peculiarly directed at shaming women and would not have been visited on a man, I suspect, and yet I have to admire her sheer guts at coming through it as she did. She is also quite obstinately holding onto certain things, like the fact that she swears she has nothing else to confess, meaning she still keeps totally silent about the incest. I don't know exactly what I wish for Cersei, but somehow I feel it would be just 'wrong' for her to be redeemed in any substantial way. I like the fact that she is still so determined to 'be' Cersei and not be 'saved' in any way so that she becomes the sort of person others want her to be. I like that she is still plotting and planning even as she descends into a form of madness, and because she is so unpredictable, she could still pose problems for Varys and his schemes.

[l3ol3o]

Rather as some earlier posters have said I don't personally think that many of the female characters need redemption (even assuming redemption is available in the GRRMiverse). Really have any of the female characters done anything bad enough to need a big intense redemption?

I agree. To be redeemed you have do something that needs redeeming. Redemption arcs are obvious in characters like Jaime (pushing Bran) and Theon (Traitor and murderor). Cersei is the only real female whos evil. I do think she can be redeemed though in a sense. Right now she pretends to do whats best for her children. In reality shes doing whats best for herself. She wants power and she gets all her power from her children. The Lannister ambition already got Joffrey killed. Cersei is partly to blame for this for having no control over Joffrey. Now Cersei has Tommen on the throne and he is in great danger of being killed also. I think she can redeem herself by letting go of her ambition for power and actually looking after her children. As of now she wants whats best for her children as long as she has as much power as possible for herself first. Cat is an example of someone who put their children first. Many, including myself, would argue that she went to far but she is the opposite of Cersei who I could see sacraficing one of her children to retain her power. If anyone has seen the Borgias the scene where Caterina Sforza is standing on the battlements deciding whether to open the gates to save her son who is being held hostage. She lifts her skirts and says something along the lines of "I can make 10 more sons" and leaves her son to his fate. I always thought of Cersei when I watched this.

I think this is what will happen with Cersei actually. She will finally let go of power and take Tommen back to the Rock to keep him safe at the expense of giving up her power. I guess in that sense she can be "redeemed" for some of her deeds at least. Some of her actions just can't be redeemed. I do however think that she will be killed along with Tommen and Mycella at some point but not after she truely puts her children first.

More of the males need redeeming because GRRM has made the males much more evil and in need of redeeming.

Then there are characters like Tyrion and Dany. Both have done some pretty bad things yet neither are really considered evil. The bad things they have done were usually to protect someone else or take revenge for an evil deed done to them or someone close to them. I don't think Tyrion or Dany really need to redeem themselves from any evil they've done rather they both need to get their heads out of their asses. Dany needs to grow up, listen to others advice, take control of her dragons, stop being hypocritical, and get to Westeros already without some how dooming everyone in Mereen. Tyrion needs to sober up, stop feeling sorry for himself, find someone to love so he can stop asking himself "where do whores" go for the 1000th time, and find a purpose for himself in life again. Tyrion is lost with no sense of direction and Dany has gotten herself into such a mess that she knows what direction she needs to go, she just can't start her journey without creating an even bigger mess. I guess both could be redeemed in that way but that is a very different redemption from the evil characters.