Sansa's Memory Related to Sandor III

[Lemon Cake]

I gave up my life in KL which was pretty cushy AND YOU CANT LOOK AT ME - LOOK AT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You STARKS RUINED MY LIFE"

If he tries to pin that one on her, I hope she smacks him. He didn't leave King's Landing for Sansa; he left because he was in disgrace and his life there was over.

[Solaris]

If he tries to pin that one on her, I hope she smacks him. He didn't leave King's Landing for Sansa; he left because he was in disgrace and his life there was over.

I am aware of that but you know how men are, they are all me me me me and it's always the wifes fault when their ego's are bruised :rolleyes:

[Lemon Cake]

I am aware of that but you know how men are, they are all me me me me and it's always the wifes fault when their ego's are bruised :rolleyes:

All the more reason to smack him. ;)

[bgona]

It doesn´t seem to me that he would say so.

Anyway: today I was driving with an 80´s radio station and Bonnie Tyler came with her Totally Eclipse of the Heart, and I don´t know but it seems me that this song suits with Sansa´s feelings. Jajajaja.

http://youtu.be/Vw5Vcnjv5Bo

[Tharvot]

Since I'm a San/San supporter along with a couple other potential hookups, I suppose I'll post my thoughts on their potential future.

Its readily apparent that each have feelings for the other, though not explicitly stated. Its also fairly apparent that Littlefinger lusts for Sansa and is using her for some master plan of his. Its a real danger for Sansa and perhaps a larger danger than she ever faced in KL because she has no one around her for protection.

In not-so-many words, here is the general theme I could see playing out:

Sandor learns about Brienne's quest to deliver/rescue Sansa, and realizes his purpose, which leads him to leave QI. Along the way, or possibly before leaving, he runs into the Blackfish who is on his way to the Vale. Sandor puts 2 and 2 together, and goes along. Upon arriving in the Vale, Sandor keeps his distance and discovers Littlefinger and Sansa. Somehow he meets Sansa in private, perhaps a chance meeting or perhaps he waits for her, where she instantly recognizes his voice and identity. He divulges that Littlefinger is not to be trusted (how he betrayed Ned) and she divulges how he ousted Lysa. It ends in a revolt wherein the Blackfish rallies Littlefinger's "banner men" in the Vale (who are none too happy about his being there) and Sandor saves Sansa from Littlefinger's desperate attempt to steal her innocence before his impending doom.

I think the whole San/San happy ending may be short lived, though as they both have plenty of enemies and there is that whole invasion from beyond the wall that is apparently ready to come. I'd love to see it end well for the 2 of them, but I think Sandor is a tragic hero and his end will not be warm and cuddly.

[Eira Seren]

sorry if i'm repeating things already said, i haven't re-read this part and didn't notice on my first read that sansa may have mis-remembered the kiss! the second time, though, i've noticed a lot of things, starting in GOT. the moment she is dragged before cersei to tell the truth about how joff gets bit, she claims she doesn't remember. that, followed by the death of Lady seems to me to be the start of her memory problems. it is a willful forgetting, followed by a trauma. often i've wondered what Lady's abscene is doing to her. there's more that follows, as well, like her completely forgetting about Arya for (over a day?) after her father dies. lots of little clues.

when i heard that the kiss with sandor is up for debate, i really thought it was a problem of willful forgetting, or obfiscation. she doesn't tell us about it (her POV) in the moment, it only comes up later. maybe she doesn't want to remember because she views it as a loss of her innocence or virtue? or she just can't stand having kissed sandor? it says a lot about her, maybe something she's not ready to accept. i think this parallells her time with baelish. unfortunately, i think there's a lot about the goings on with petyr that sansa is willfully forgetting, obfiscating or blocking out. there's a kiss there too, one that we are plainly shown in her POV. since she remembers that kiss just fine, i'm guessing it's just a scratch on the surface of what we aren't shown.

though i admit it's pretty difficult to tell what might be imagined and what isn't at this point, with her and with baelish.

[anousdeuxmaintenant]

I think that Sansa's unkiss is her "seeing" it from Sandor. I think he wanted to kiss her. I don't think she warged him in the sense of being in his body, but I think that her warging may come out as a ability to know what people are thinking kinda thing. I can't articulate it how I have it in my head. In a GoT when ser illyn payne first shows up lady growls and it says Sansa puts her hand on ladys head and she quiets. In the bedroom scene Sansa puts her hand on Sandors face and he "quiets down" I don't think she likes him like that. I just don't see it. I think it is one directional. He likes her. The fantasizing about him in her marriage bed I see it differently. she is dreaming unsettling dreams no? She also dreams of the awful vision of joffrey choking to death, of the awful experience of being in bed with tyrion staring at her and then she thinks of Sandor asking for a song, like he did when he threw her onto the bed and asked for a song. all bad experiences no? her kiss keeps evolving. the next time it is "his cruel mouth" on hers. cruel mouth isn't a good thing. Now, I think that they have some sort of connection because he is associated with dogs and all the dog references and when she thinks of lady she always (?) thinks of or sees sandor. I think he is the replacement protector. Now if he is the gravedigger than I hope he has calmed the eff down and then maybe develope feelings but I feel like it will always be a one directional thing. Who knows, maybe sandor only really wanted to put a leg up.

[anousdeuxmaintenant]

and one more thing. that damn littlefinger. I think sansa may loose herself for a bit and she kinda likes the pervy kisses. she sure doesn't try that hard to get him off her. and the first time he kisses her inside the castle she says "for half a heartbeat she yielded to his kiss" pg1104 of paperback asos.

and this reminded me of sansa waking up "Sansa awoke all at once, every nerve atingle." this is the same time frame of Sandor getting injured/"dying"

then "when sansa opened her eyes again she was on her knees. She did not remember falling". again I think this is her connection to her "warging" feelings or things happeniong to her "lady/hound" as a protector. she isn't warging body style but i believe definately some sort of sookie stackhouse mind reading *sort of* thing.

[romantic]

Off-topic, sorry but where is the latest Sandor Appreciation thread or Sandor thread? I can't seem to find anything recent. I'm even having trouble tracking down the closed threads. Is there a Sandor section just for Sandor fans? Thanks.

[Merisomo]

I hope I am remembering correctly, but didn't Sansa down a glass of wine right before the big kiss? I know that it was mentioned that she wasn't used to alcohol and for some reason shortly after she became brave enough to stand up in front of everyone when Cersei (?) rushes off to tell everyone to remain calm.

So, just saying, I know It is a bad excuse but it may be plausible that she was more tipsy than suffering from some strange stress related delinquency. I know there have been moments in my life, especially when I was just beginning to imbibe alcohol, that I may have been my own "unreliable narrator" in life.

Also, I don't it really find it that strange for her to want to remember the unkiss in a way that she finds most desirable if she doesn't remember them that clearly at all.

Maybe? Maybe not?

[brashcandy]

Off-topic, sorry but where is the latest Sandor Appreciation thread or Sandor thread? I can't seem to find anything recent. I'm even having trouble tracking down the closed threads. Is there a Sandor section just for Sandor fans? Thanks.

Last Sandor thread before the mod closure can be found here: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/62443-sandor-clegane-v19/

You should be able to find the previous ones by doing a search for that title with the corresponding version no.

[romantic]

Thanks, brashcandy.

[Lady&theHound]

:agree:

It's a very different cloak-toss than the one after the cross-bow episode, no?

But, you know - it's very interesting that he leaves the cloak behind because just earlier in that scene, he tells Sansa that he won't have any trouble getting out of KL because he has a white cloak. Yet he leaves his free-pass out of there in her room and takes his chances without it.

What do we make of that? He was too disgusted at himself and with the notion of knights/valour to take it with him? No - because the cloak isn't necessarily associated with being a knight - you can wear a cloak and not be a knight, as Sandor has done ever since Robert died.

I think he desperately wanted to leave a part of him behind with her. In a previous scene, he gave her his cloak to shield her naked body from the eyes of the court so it symbolises protection - that's the part he wanted to leave behind for her. I don't think he was in a hurry to get it off or that it disgusted him - I think he deliberately took it off and left it so she would have a part of him (and indeed she embraces it and hundles underneath it) and then he quietly leaves. He's not angry at this point. It's all very gentle/tender from the point that she cups his face.