Jojen Reed's fate? (ADWD Spoilers)

[Ciazio]

could you possibly provide a link to the heresy discussing the relation between starks and others please?

Nowaday we have 23 Heresy threads, and the relation between Starks and White Walkers is widely explored in each one of them... I'm sorry I can't be of more help but there is no *one* link, it's full of them and I can't remember one more important than the others :cool4:

Anyway the second post of each Heresy is the recap of the previous ones, you still might find what you are looking for:

[Green Dreamin]

Wow, I really hope Jojen isnt dead and Bran didnt eat him. Jojen is my favorite character and I'd be pissed.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Wow, I really hope Jojen isnt dead and Bran didnt eat him. Jojen is my favorite character and I'd be pissed.

Ya jojen is one of my favorite characters, but for some reason with the overlapping themes of cannibalism in DWD it is a strong possibility. Jojen always said today is not the day I die. But perhaps that was. I don't think it should go that way though if jojen dies I want to see it with my own two eyes.

[redriver]

Well if I found out I had just been fed my best friend,I would be mighty pissed.

[Green Dreamin]

I dont have the book with me but is Hodor around or is he missing with Jojen and Meera? Is the last time we see Meera is when she is crying and Bran wants to comfort her but cant? I dont remember what that was about. I wonder if Jojen has had a green dream of his death. It seems like Meera can always tell when something is troubling Jojen and he usually shares his dreams with her. There is no way Meera would allow this to happen to her brother if she knew about it.

I need to re read everything but I think theyre just wandering the caves still. The 3 of them have grown quite attached and I really cant see them just leaving Bran by himself. If something did happen I can see Bran warging into Summer and killing some CoTF like how he did for Jon.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

I dont have the book with me but is Hodor around or is he missing with Jojen and Meera?

.

By the logic of Jojenpaste theorists, this is enough to believe that Hodor is dead.

[Ludd]

While I think VOLUNTARY human sacrifice is essential to survival of the weirwood (and the wall), there has already BEEN a sacrifice at the stark weirwood tree. Master Lewin asked a boon of Osha -a woman with white hair and a knife.

Lewin had dabbled in magic (had the steel link) but thought it dead. But following Bran and Rickon's dreams and the comet I suspect he started to understand. So his last act for Bran (and the Starks) was his own sacrifice.

I think that the whole purpose of the night watch is to be wiling to sacrifice themselves in times of need. Hence each family named a favoured son as a sort of hostage to the wall - like the kings in Pentos.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Technically none of them are missing...only once bran eats the paste we don't hear about them.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Also don't believe that osha was the white haired woman. Bran would of recognized her with lewin. Its more likely there have been multiple sacrifices at the heart tree

[chrisdaw]

He had never felt more like a cripple than he did then, watching helplessly as Meera Reed and Coldhands butchered the brave beast who had carried them so far. He told himself he would not eat, that it was better to go hungry than to feast upon a friend, but in the end he'd eaten twice, once in his own skin and once in Summer's.

And the simlarities between these two lines.

Tyrion when Oberyn tells him all men die before theoretically poisoning Tywin.

Something about the way he said it made the hairs on the back of Tyrion’s neck bristle.

Bran when BR says it's time for the paste.

Something in his voice sent icy fingers running up Bran's back.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

What does tyrion and oberyn have to do with bran eating jojen? Lots of things make the hairs stand up on the back of character's necks...or lots of characters get the chills or icy feelings and icy fingers running up their backs...that's always common place in the stories. And in most stories. To describe the chills....I don't think there is a point in oberyn poisoning tywin or how it changes the story at all. It just seems like adding too much to tywin's death. Oberyn poisoning tywin adds nothing to the story cause tyrion killed tywin. So what would it accomplish..it doesn't really make oberyn more bad ass or anything. Seeing that poison is a coward's weapon. I just think there is a possibility of jojen being used for the paste..maybe just his blood. But I won't be convinced until the next book. Cause the paste was towards the end of the last bran pov so not seeing jojen is not a big enough detail to draw a conclusion. The whole brand eating a friend thing always struck me as odd including when they had the mystery meat that was supposeedly pork that sounded like human flesh.

[Profion]

I do believe in the possibility of Jojen Paste, since Cannibalism was a very recurrent theme on the book.

[otherbeef]

Concerning Meera's quote about Jojen of

"He wants to go home...He will not even try and fight his fate. He says the greendreams do not lie"

If Jojen knew he was going to die in the cave, wouldn't wanting to go home be fighting his fate? Clearly Jojen has accepted he is to die, so doesn't the wording of of this suggest he dies at Greywater Watch and knows it?

Also, it was Jojen who insisted that the group continue with their journey to the 3 eyed crow when they are discussing whether or not to trust Coldhands. If he knew he were to die in the cave, this seems like an odd choice no?

While Jojen had become weaker and weaker as the journey went along, iirc he was never downright depressed until well after they had been in the cave for a while. Again, if he knew he was going to die and was scared/depressed about it, why is it that he never showed any signs of it? I think it is more likely Jojen is upset that the 3 eyed crow isn't exactly who he thought he would be, and that he may be more sinister than what he imagined with his whole "It is not you that should be scared" bit, since Bran is on Bloodraven's side so to speak.

[ab aeterno]

Concerning Meera's quote about Jojen of

"He wants to go home...He will not even try and fight his fate. He says the greendreams do not lie"

If Jojen knew he was going to die in the cave, wouldn't wanting to go home be fighting his fate? Clearly Jojen has accepted he is to die, so doesn't the wording of of this suggest he dies at Greywater Watch and knows it?

Also, it was Jojen who insisted that the group continue with their journey to the 3 eyed crow when they are discussing whether or not to trust Coldhands. If he knew he were to die in the cave, this seems like an odd choice no?

While Jojen had become weaker and weaker as the journey went along, iirc he was never downright depressed until well after they had been in the cave for a while. Again, if he knew he was going to die and was scared/depressed about it, why is it that he never showed any signs of it? I think it is more likely Jojen is upset that the 3 eyed crow isn't exactly who he thought he would be, and that he may be more sinister than what he imagined with his whole "It is not you that should be scared" bit, since Bran is on Bloodraven's side so to speak.

Some good points. Well presented too. Welcome to the forum, otherbeef. :)

[chrisdaw]

Wanting to go home isn't fighting his fate, actually going home would be, which is what Meera wants but he will not even try, because the greendreams do not lie. Jojen has full belief in the green dreams and the old gods and accepts his part to play.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

Concerning Meera's quote about Jojen of

"He wants to go home...He will not even try and fight his fate. He says the greendreams do not lie"

If Jojen knew he was going to die in the cave, wouldn't wanting to go home be fighting his fate? Clearly Jojen has accepted he is to die, so doesn't the wording of of this suggest he dies at Greywater Watch and knows it?

Also, it was Jojen who insisted that the group continue with their journey to the 3 eyed crow when they are discussing whether or not to trust Coldhands. If he knew he were to die in the cave, this seems like an odd choice no?

While Jojen had become weaker and weaker as the journey went along, iirc he was never downright depressed until well after they had been in the cave for a while. Again, if he knew he was going to die and was scared/depressed about it, why is it that he never showed any signs of it? I think it is more likely Jojen is upset that the 3 eyed crow isn't exactly who he thought he would be, and that he may be more sinister than what he imagined with his whole "It is not you that should be scared" bit, since Bran is on Bloodraven's side so to speak.

Clap clap.

Wanting to go home isn't fighting his fate, actually going home would be, which is what Meera wants but he will not even try, because the greendreams do not lie. Jojen has full belief in the green dreams and the old gods and accepts his part to play.

Those greendreams that he previously had no problem relating to his sister and that in recent memory we have no explicit idea of what they consist of? Oh yes, those greendreams. They do not lie.

[chrisdaw]

In this case it refers to the greendream that foretold his fate, the one about his death, that he will not even try to fight despite wanting to go home.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

In this case it refers to the greendream that foretold his fate, the one about his death, that he will not even try to fight despite wanting to go home.

Ah yes, the Greendream that foretold his fate yet gave us no clues as to where that would occur.

[evita mgfs]

All of this confuses me. Aren't the CoF like gods? Isn't Jojen like a saint or prophet?

Why would the old gods violate the laws of hospitality and feed their guest to a guest?

Like Judge Judy says, if it doesn't make sense, it isn't true. This doesn't make sense. But I love all the speculation and deep close analysis of text. No one ever agrees with my ideas, so I am used to it!

[chrisdaw]

For the realm of men.