Small Questions on ADWD II

[Grail King]

fantasy dream: Roose , Ramsey and Freys are hold up in WF no one can touch them they all hear rumbling the building shakes and through the doors bust through the statues of the dead Starks, every persons eye bugger out and move away R&R and Freys shit their pants stone fingers grasp their necks and stone direwolves eat the entrails of the Freys and the dogs and a raspy voice says don't fuck with the Starks, now get out of our home!

Everyone else just take knees to the Stark including Manderly for even though he has ships and men he ain't got living ghost.

The Statutes leave telling the rest to get their asses in gear for winter has come.

Just stupid shit.

[chuck norris 42]

In the previous novels the Lannisters planned to take over the

Nights watch by sending them men that are loyal to House Lannister.

Was there any evidence for this at all?

As a far as I could tell you saw no evidence of this happening. I suppose you could infer Janos slynt was telling everyone that the Iron throne would prefer a different lord commander but I did not see any direct evidence of the plot.

[RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon]

The plot was focused around one of the Kettlebacks joining the watch after being tried for sleeping with Margery. This didn't go to plan and the guy was tortured by the high septon instead. Janos Slynt's remarks about the Iron Throne relate to earlier where Tywin sent birds showing who the throne would be happiest as LC. He didn't go as far as Cersei and had bigger fish to fry at that point. I don't think he would have been to bothered if Slynt was not chosen. I doubt he would have predicted Ned Stark's bastard would get the gig.

[fassreiter]

When Melisandre thinks about her guards in her POV chapter, she mentions one of them especially:

She had two drunkards and a craven too. The last should have been hanged, as the king himself admitted, but he came from a noble family, and his father and brothers had been stalwart from the first.

Do we know who that craven guy is supposed to be? And why would Stannis want to hang him, for cowardice? Do we know what house he could be from? Why would GRRM mention this if it had no meaning at all?

[ValyrianQueen]

Hi all, I'm new to this forum as you'll notice so I have a question that may have been discussed before, even here, but you'll understand if I don't look around in 24 pages and more...:)

Anyway, I've been in the pages where the Jon's parents issue is discussed and I must say I would really love it if R-L=J but apart from that I noticed a certain candidate that no one talks about, mentioned by Lord Godrik in the Sisters to Davos. This is the exact quote:

“Ned Stark was here?”

“At the dawn of Robert’s Rebellion. The Mad King had sent to the Eyrie for Stark’s head, but Jon

Arryn sent him back defiance. Gulltown stayed loyal to the throne, though. To get home and call his

banners, Stark had to cross the mountains to the Fingers and find a fisherman to carry him across the

Bite. A storm caught them on the way. The fisherman drowned, but his daughter got Stark to the Sisters

before the boat went down. They say he left her with a bag of silver and a bastard in her belly. Jon

Snow, she named him, after Arryn.

So, why no one considers this? It maybe be just a rumor of course, but didn't Rob Stark married Jayne after she tended his wounds? It does seem as unlikely to me as Wylla but stil... (And there are times when I'm not sure if it would be better if Jon is Rheagar's heir or just a bastard...of course if the latter happens it's likely possible that he just died in the end of ADWD, which I would hate, but then, I didn't like Rob being killed either!)

Again, I'm sorry of this has been asked before or it's too obvious!:-)

[The Dornishman's Wife]

You're quite right, it's a funny thing: Someone claims to reveal the big solution to an important riddle, and we just go "Meh!" and ignore it. It's just that most people immediately discarded Godrik's statement as a red herring, often for some combination of the following reasons:

1) He just passed on some rumours. It's only natural that people gossip, and they gossiped about Wylla as well and probably a handful of others. Just cause the Sisterlord only heard the Sistergossip and thus believes it to be true doesn't actually make it much more plausible than the other stuff, and we didn't believe that either.

2) A great mystery like Jon's parentage being revealed should be a big thing, story-wise. This was more of an aside. If the question of Jon's parents hadn't been built up so much, that might be the way we get an unimportant but nice-to-know bit of background about him -- but it has been built up, and the careless delivery would thus be highly nonstandard from a narrative perspective.

3) A great mystery like Jon's parentage should have some consequence. You don't just build up such a thing just to reveal: "Oh, and by the way, there was nothing special there". If a question was built up, its answer should be important - to do otherwise would be possible, but again be highly nonstandard from a narrative perspective.

However, I know of no killer reason that would make the claim about "J = N + fisherman's daughter" absolutely impossible. It just doesn't seem to fit into the story and the way stories are usually told.

[ValyrianQueen]

I guess your last line says something about GRRM, he doesn't do things in the usual way!

But then, I agree, I believe it's more important and I want to believe it, otherwise Jon may very well be dead in WoW...just had to check it out in case I missed something.

(I must say it never crossed my mind that Jon's father could be anyone else but Ned since I read the books too fast to notice hidden things like the blue roses being important to Lyanna. The only thing that made me suspicious was this thing Lyanna told Ned when she died:"Promise me" but nothing else!)

[ipsuel]

When Melisandre thinks about her guards in her POV chapter, she mentions one of them especially:

Do we know who that craven guy is supposed to be? And why would Stannis want to hang him, for cowardice? Do we know what house he could be from? Why would GRRM mention this if it had no meaning at all?

I took this as a way of saying that Stannis doesn't *always* follow the law in each case. He makes exceptions (albeit rare ones).

To me, the take-away point was that Stannis could very well know all about the Rattleshirt-burning. He may not have liked it, but I think he knows, and allowed it for whatever reason.

[Lady of Long Lake]

Hi all, I'm new to this forum as you'll notice so I have a question that may have been discussed before, even here, but you'll understand if I don't look around in 24 pages and more... :)

Anyway, I've been in the pages where the Jon's parents issue is discussed and I must say I would really love it if R-L=J but apart from that I noticed a certain candidate that no one talks about, mentioned by Lord Godrik in the Sisters to Davos. This is the exact quote:

“Ned Stark was here?”

“At the dawn of Robert’s Rebellion. The Mad King had sent to the Eyrie for Stark’s head, but Jon

Arryn sent him back defiance. Gulltown stayed loyal to the throne, though. To get home and call his

banners, Stark had to cross the mountains to the Fingers and find a fisherman to carry him across the

Bite. A storm caught them on the way. The fisherman drowned, but his daughter got Stark to the Sisters

before the boat went down. They say he left her with a bag of silver and a bastard in her belly. Jon

Snow, she named him, after Arryn.

So, why no one considers this? It maybe be just a rumor of course, but didn't Rob Stark married Jayne after she tended his wounds? It does seem as unlikely to me as Wylla but stil... (And there are times when I'm not sure if it would be better if Jon is Rheagar's heir or just a bastard...of course if the latter happens it's likely possible that he just died in the end of ADWD, which I would hate, but then, I didn't like Rob being killed either!)

Again, I'm sorry of this has been asked before or it's too obvious!:-)

Well, there WAS a baby at the Tower of Joy but only George (and Howland Reed:)) know if it was Jon. Three of the Kingsguard were there and one was the LC. They have to guard the King and the heirs ONLY. Rhaegar was not there and had gone to fight in the battle. They can't guard girlfriends of the prince. But they would stay to guard the prince's child, if the prince had married Lyanna.

Perhaps I am wrong. Say that Rhaegar did indeed marry Lyanna. Would the KG stay to guard her after Rhaegar left if she was there alone, without a baby?

[Dragonfish]

Perhaps I am wrong. Say that Rhaegar did indeed marry Lyanna. Would the KG stay to guard her after Rhaegar left if she was there alone, without a baby?

I think if Rhaegar ordered them to stay, they would have. But I don't think they would have continued to stay there once they found out about the deaths of Rhaegar, Aerys, and Aegon. Or at least, I don't think all of them would have stayed there. They could and ought to have sent at least one of their number to Dragonstone so as to ensure that the new king (Viserys) had at least some Kingsguard protection. The fact that they didn't do this tells me that the true king was not actually on Dragonstone, but was instead in the Tower of Joy.

[Dragonglass Candle]

Just for reference, did aDoD ever have mention anywhere in the final chapters of just how big Drogon has grown? And for that matter, Rhaegal and Viserion? Just a speculation on size would be nice, but if there's a tidbit I missed please point it out!