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Football: A Dream of Defenders


The Iceman of the North

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It's a kick in the teeth for United's medical staff

Whut?

It's a kick in the teeth for United's medical staff that Owen Hargreaves believes that he's now fit enough to play 40 games? This is pure blethers.

I repeat, he's left for their biggest rivals. How that escapes you, Mormont, baffles me. It's one of the most basic rules in football. I dislike anyone who shows disloyalty towards their club.

As you surely know if you'd read my reply, the bit that escapes me is how his fitness is in any way relevant to the issue of signing for Man City in particular. I think you probably understood that perfectly clearly, you're just playing dumb.

Players 'leave for the club's biggest rivals' all the time, and in all sorts of ways. It's not always seen as a sin, or even disloyalty. Michael Stewart, for example, went from playing for Hearts (on loan from Man U) to signing for Hibs and then back to Hearts, and both clubs would happily sign him again.

In this case, Hargreaves' contract ran out: the club declined to offer him a new one - and it's perfectly clear that if they had, he'd have taken it. He then became a free agent and spent some time considering various offers, before opting for Man City. Where's the disloyalty in that? MoJo this isn't. (The reference might escape non-Celtic fans, particularly younger ones, so here.)

This shouldn't be his main focus, right now. He's made his millions. He's well set. I would have thought he'd want to play football. He'll not do much of that at City.

Selective quoting now? I didn't suggest it was his main focus. In fact I pointed out that the footballing argument for choosing Man City over any of his other offers was so compelling that he'd be daft not to do it, even if it meant a pay cut.

Reading that article, do you really doubt that Hargreaves considers himself good enough to make the first team at Man City? I don't. I think he'll struggle, but I'm certain that he doesn't think so.

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Whut?

It's a kick in the teeth for United's medical staff that Owen Hargreaves believes that he's now fit enough to play 40 games? This is pure blethers.

They worked hard to get him ready for United, not City. If you put work into something, you hope to see a reward for your time spent. United have invested years in Hargreaves for nothing...could be City's gain. The last club they'd want it to pay off.

Players 'leave for the club's biggest rivals' all the time, and in all sorts of ways. It's not always seen as a sin, or even disloyalty.

This is where we diverge. You don't see it as such a big deal, I do.

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As a sometime United fan

What do you mean "sometime"? Do you only support them when they're winning or something? :blink:

As it is now I can't see him getting a sniff of first-team football

He'll get a chance in the Carling Cup for sure and probably the FA Cup as well (if he's not injured by January). Yaya Toure will be away in January for the African Cup of Nations so a vacancy could arise then. I also think that Owen Hargreaves is a better player than Gareth Barry, but as long as Barry is playing well then there will be no reason for Mancini to drop him. Nigel de Jong is also in that squad but he hasn't managed to feature regularly of late.

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They worked hard to get him ready for United, not City. If you put work into something, you hope to see a reward for your time spent. United have invested years in Hargreaves for nothing...could be City's gain. The last club they'd want it to pay off.

Yes, they put in the work, as did he (the article shows how much). And at the end of it, the club decided to cut their losses. They decided that they would not offer him a new contract, and told him he could go.

Hargreaves didn't say 'thanks for the medical treatment, now I'm off to join your rivals'. He was let go. If the medical staff are in tears over all their wasted effort, they'll surely need to take it up with Alex Ferguson. It was his decision.

(I'm willing to bet, by the way, that you won't see Fergie or any other Man U employee grumble if Hargreaves does sign for City.)

This is where we diverge. You don't see it as such a big deal, I do.

I'm making a statement of fact, there - it is a fact that joining your former team's rivals is not always seen as a betrayal. You can 'diverge' from it if you like, I suppose, but it's no less true for that.

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What do you mean "sometime"? Do you only support them when they're winning or something? :blink:

I mean I used to support them when I was younger, but now I'm less interested (in the sport in general, not just in United), and so all I do is keep up with the results. If you asked me today what team I supported, I'd probably say Stockport County (them being somewhat more local to where I grew up).

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That's a bit like me with Arsenal actually. When I started watching football as an eight year-old I decided I would support Arsenal. This was probably only because I saw them on TV once. :laugh: I stopped watching football for a couple of years at some point but I got back into it during the 2006 World Cup and after that I wasn't all that interested in Arsenal but I still like to see them do well and find their current predicament (which they've been in for the last four years) to be very frustrating.

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They worked hard to get him ready for United, not City. If you put work into something, you hope to see a reward for your time spent. United have invested years in Hargreaves for nothing...could be City's gain. The last club they'd want it to pay off.

This is absurd. If they wanted to keep him, they should've offered him a contract.

This is where we diverge. You don't see it as such a big deal, I do.

And this is just appalling. If he'd come up through the system for years and years, and then took an offer from a rival instead of a similar offer from the host club, maybe you can bitch and moan. But the club doesn't give two shits about the player, and the fans are willing to turn on players at the drop of a hat; the idea that the player owes the club something after they release him is goddamn ignorant.

Also, at the idea he should have signed with Leicester City or West Brom instead is laughable. The man is thirty, this is his last shot at playing meaningful football and you want him to go to West Brom? City represents an opportunity to compete for trophies.

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I'm not looking forward to Liverpool - ManU. I'm afraid. Last year, they truly looked crap for much of the season, but still won thanks to their unerring penchant for grinding out victories. This year, they look formidable.

eh I'm not worried about it. United looked ok in their first two games and fantasic in the third. It's important to not get carried away since there has only been 3 games. Chelsea won their first two games 6-0 and we did the double on them. We don't play united for like another month and a half anyways. and it's at anfield.

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No comments about Barca's masterclass yesterday? The phrase "total football" gets thrown around too much to describe slick passing football, but that's really what it was yesterday. Guardiola took his mentor's system and applied it in the 21st century - and I was almost awestruck with the results.

Newcastle also signed one of the most exciting Italian FB prospects in Davide Santon.

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It's really pretty poor form that I'm already looking forward to us playing Barcelona this season, isn't it? I mean our new system is untested, it might lose form, we could easily go out before that, and with their defensive concerns so could they, but... it's just a mouthwatering prospect at the moment, the way we're both playing. :drool: I so want it to happen.

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the idea that the player owes the club something after they release him is goddamn ignorant.

Anyone who thinks this is ignorant themselves, as far as I'm concerned. Football here is rooted in tradition and close loyalties. Location is key in understanding this.

It could've been worse, though, so I don't really see any point talking further about it. Makes it more significant than it is. If he had been a young player trained by the club it would be more worth debate. Instead, he's just joining the merry train and catching a free ride until his legs go.

No comments about Barca's masterclass yesterday? The phrase "total football" gets thrown around too much to describe slick passing football, but that's really what it was yesterday. Guardiola took his mentor's system and applied it in the 21st century - and I was almost awestruck with the results.

Newcastle also signed one of the most exciting Italian FB prospects in Davide Santon.

I did mention Barca's system earlier. ;) Pep just keeps pushing his philosophy, further and further. I'd love to see my club adapting it, but alas, we do not have a suitable man in charge to create such an ideology.

And besides, our club loves wingers and Barca's system is far too central to really appease our the majority of our fans, I'd imagine.

Also, agreed. Major capture for Newcastle. Doubt Inter would've let him go, only for signing the even more impress Nagaytomo.

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Wow Arsenal is fast on it's way to becoming one of my favorite sides. First they signed Gervinho who has long deserved it. Now they are finally showing interest in Clint Dempsey. It's about damn time that this man had the opportunity to play on a Champions League level club.

This or PSG signing him would make me happy. He deserves this chance.

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Wow Arsenal is fast on it's way to becoming one of my favorite sides. First they signed Gervinho who has long deserved it. Now they are finally showing interest in Clint Dempsey.

Omg, this is the first I've heard of this. I've been dying for Dempsey to be given a chance at a bigger club. I hope it happens. Maybe 8-2 was the kick up the backside Arsenal needed, If they actually do get Cahill, Dempsey, and Mertesacker.

Edit: Wow, Goal.com is saying 16.5 million pounds for Dempsey. I know it's goal.com, but thats a very high figure. I rated Dempsey at 8-10. I guess its a reflection of the fact that we're in the 11th hour and Arsenal are desperate.

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Omg, this is the first I've heard of this. I've been dying for Dempsey to be given a chance at a bigger club. I hope it happens. Maybe 8-2 was the kick up the backside Arsenal needed, If they actually do get Cahill, Dempsey, and Mertesacker.

Edit: Wow, Goal.com is saying 16.5 million pounds for Dempsey. I know it's goal.com, but thats a very high figure. I rated Dempsey at 8-10. I guess its a reflection of the fact that we're in the 11th hour and Arsenal are desperate.

Truth be told. It is this thing that makes me think that I'd rather see him at PSG, and not just because I like PSG, but bc that's a club on the rise rather than the Gunners who seem to be coming apart at the seams. I want Clint to play Champions League football and while he'll get that chance this season with Arsenal, PSG will be there next year and seasons to come which is more than can be said for Arsenal at the moment.

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I did mention Barca's system earlier. ;) Pep just keeps pushing his philosophy, further and further. I'd love to see my club adapting it, but alas, we do not have a suitable man in charge to create such an ideology.

And besides, our club loves wingers and Barca's system is far too central to really appease our the majority of our fans, I'd imagine.

Also, agreed. Major capture for Newcastle. Doubt Inter would've let him go, only for signing the even more impress Nagaytomo.

I suppose I should give credit where it's due :laugh:

Truth be told Santon has not lived up to the expectations fans had for him in the past 2 years, and the very smart purchase of Nagatomo (how good is Branca at pulling that kind of move, by the way? One of the sporting directors I respect the most right now) landed them with a player who is not only very competent, but also extremely likeable and opens them a means into the Asian market. Hopefully Santon can succeed in England, Newcastle need him.

Speaking of PSG I've heard Pastore is doing quite well there. Hopefully it doesn't fade into the season as he did last time, because I think he has a very bright future.

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No comments about Barca's masterclass yesterday? The phrase "total football" gets thrown around too much to describe slick passing football, but that's really what it was yesterday.

Barcelona were indeed formidable. It almost goes without saying lately.

Real Madrid were sublime as well, beating Zaragoza 0-6 in a 3 goal Ronaldo game.

Very interested to see what transfers will be made on this final day. Arsenal has lost bidding for Dutch winger Eljero Elia and he now moves to Juventus Turin ( yet another signing for Juve).

Mertesacker is a good buy for the Gunners though, strong defender. Not familiar with Andre Santos. Let's hope for them the korean Cho is not their only striker, 25 goals in 91 games in the French liga are not great numbers for an Arsenal level striker. I think Gervinho is a mediocre signing as well btw.

Elsewhere, Fulham signs FC Twente's excellent forward Bryan Ruiz, Chelsea bids 30 million pounds for Franck Ribery, and Harry Redknapp is a "million% " sure that Modric stays at Spurs. Crouch apparently headed for Sunderland.

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Sunderland, Blackburn and Stoke have all knocked back the chance to sign Giorgios Samaras. A clever bit of business from all managers concerned. Lennon will have to pay someone to take him.

I hope the Clint Dempsey to Arsenal rumours are true. He's such an underrated player and I'm a big fan.

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