Angalin

[twow Spoilers] Arianne II, Part 2

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House Baratheon started the war that killed Elia. I don't see Dorne considering an alliance with them any time soon, nor the Starks, Tullys or Arryns. He didn't spare a thought for the Young Wolf either.

Well, I think it is more Doran being too cautious KL and all his strength lies between the North and Dorne and Stannis looks for the most time as a lost case. I don't doubt he had small liking for Robert, but I don't think he wouldn't ally with Starks, Arryns and Tullys against Lannisters of course dragons are much better.

Edited by lazy turtle

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House Baratheon started the war that killed Elia. I don't see Dorne considering an alliance with them any time soon, nor the Starks, Tullys or Arryns. He didn't spare a thought for the Young Wolf either.

I don't think we know what he thought about Robb - he may well have regretted the death of an enemy of the Lannisters.

Baratheon did not start the war anymore than Stark, Arryn and especially the Targaryens themselves did. What started it was Aerys' demands for the heads of Robert and Ned, remember?

More to the point though, the Baratheons did not balk when the Lannisters had Elia and her children killed (the Starks did, though Doran may or may not know that - through the Daynes maybe, or "friends" at court). Stannis also was in charge of the fleet sent to capture (or kill?) Viserys and Daenerys, shortly after the war. He's not a natural ally for Doran.

However, Doran also looks at Connington with suspicion (probably justified, considering Varys' and Illyrio's hands in events).

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Well, I think it is more Doran being too cautious KL and all his strength lays between the North and Dorne and Stannis

Hey, I thought his brother Oberyn was the one into lays. ;-}

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Hey, I thought his brother Oberyn was the one into lays. ;-}

Never say English isn't insidious, well I'm horrible speller in any language including my native, but I hope the message got across even if with little decrypting :blushing:

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As for the quick taking of Storm's End, when was our last sighting of the sellsail Sallador Sahn? Could he be involved in ferrying the Golden Co. to Westeros? As far as the garrison at Storm's End knows, Sahn's ships are still in the employ of Stannis. If the men who exited those ships broke the Tyrell seige, the defenders may well have thrown their gates open to YG and JC's men, thinking them sellswords in the employ of Stannis. Just a thought....

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Hi everyone!

My first post here, I've been lurking too long I fear. I hope I'll be able to keep on topic, shame me if I don't.

On that it seems strange for cautious Doran to send his heir to see this dragon I say he must.

- If YG is indeed the real stuff, Doran would seem disloyal not to come running to his aid, blood band and all.

And if it's anything Doran wants it's to keep Dornes privileges, and the protection of the throne. He probably sees the risks with the Tyrells coming into power even with Tommen as king, and the probability that they will ally with this dragon as a very probable scenario.

- If YG is not the real deal, he might do well to befriend him in any case, depending on what the rest of the realm believes. If the Tyrells accept him and join him before Doran has decided him true/false as a Targ, is there a military power in the kingdom that could stand against the force of Highgarden+GC? And what if he's so much like a Targ that even Dany believes him to be? In any case she might eventually come with her dragons. What she'll think of YG when she meets him is hard to know, it's a risky venture either way for Doran.

In the case that the Lannister/Tyrell power stay allies and survive the rebellion, they will surely not leave Dorne unharmed if it does not ally with them in this war, and Dorne would never fight with them, especially against a eventual dragon. Who could Doran turn to if not YG? The Vale?

If Doran could remain passive in this situation I'm sure he would, in fear of what Dany will do when she comes. But at this point he's probably heard rumors of her assumed death, so this Aegon might be the only Targ left. He's bound to seek his protection.

What we know is that it's very very unlikely that the southern houses of the kingdoms will come together against this dragon usurper. In any case there will be continued war in the south too, it's only a matter of WHO will join YG and GC, and who will go first.

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House Baratheon started the war that killed Elia. I don't see Dorne considering an alliance with them any time soon, nor the Starks, Tullys or Arryns. He didn't spare a thought for the Young Wolf either.

I suspect the real reason he didn't consider either is because he already had a marriage pact set up with the Targs. Also at that point the Lannisters were still strong and Joffrey's claim was strongest. There was no reason to get involved. Now almost everyone but Dorne has had their armies beaten up pretty badly and Dorne has a chance to make something happen militarily

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I don't think we know what he thought about Robb - he may well have regretted the death of an enemy of the Lannisters.

Baratheon did not start the war anymore than Stark, Arryn and especially the Targaryens themselves did. What started it was Aerys' demands for the heads of Robert and Ned, remember?

More to the point though, the Baratheons did not balk when the Lannisters had Elia and her children killed (the Starks did, though Doran may or may not know that - through the Daynes maybe, or "friends" at court).

Nobody in Dorne seems to blame Ned Stark for anything, or if they do, they're keeping it to themselves. And Dorne's problem is what happened to Elia and her kids---they don't seem too upset about the deaths of Aeys and Rhaegar (not surprising, since the former tried to keep Lewyn Martell as a hostage and the latter dishonored Elia by running off with Lyanna).

“A start?” said Ellaria Sand, incredulous. “Gods forbid. I would it were a finish. Tywin Lannister is dead. So are Robert Baratheon, Amory Lorch, and now Gregor Clegane, all those who had a hand in murdering Elia and her children. Even Joffrey, who was not yet born when Elia died. I saw the boy perish with mine own eyes, clawing at his throat as he tried to draw a breath. Who else is there to kill? Do Myrcella and Tommen need to die so the shades of Rhaenys and Aegon can be at rest? Where does it end?”

Granted, this is Ellaria saying this and not Doran, but I think it's relevant that this list does not contain Ned Stark.

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I wonder if Ned voiced his displeasure over the deaths of the Elia's children? He was very vocal when it came to telling Robert that he should leave Daenerys alone, so I wouldn't be surprised if he expressed anger over the children's death too when it happened. If so the Martells might be aware of that Eddard would have spared Elia and the children had he taken King's Landing before the Lannisters, and thus don't hold him accountable for what happened.

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I wonder if Ned voiced his displeasure over the deaths of the Elia's children? He was very vocal when it came to telling Robert that he should leave Daenerys alone, so I wouldn't be surprised if he expressed anger over the children's death too when it happened. If so the Martells might be aware of that Eddard would have spared Elia and the children had he taken King's Landing before the Lannisters, and thus don't hold him accountable for what happened.

I remember Robert bringing up Dany to Ned in AGoT. It was Ned's POV. I've got it in front of me now. Ned's internal dialogue talked about Tywin presenting the dead Targ children and Robert turned away from them. Referred to them as dragonspawn. Ned called it murder by the Lannister men, Robert called it a casualty of war. Ned also mentioned that Jon Arryn couldn't stop the disagreement. Ned rode south "in a cold rage". It apparently took Lyanna dying to stop the fight.

It doesn't say what characters saw the fight. At least Jon Arryn, maybe Tywin. Jon Arryn was the envoy sent Dorne after the rebellion ended and he stopped any immediate retaliation from them. Its possible he mentioned it to Doran Martell, implicated the Lannisters.

I think the Kingslayer mentions something about this in one of his POV's. I cant remember.

Edited by Braddock Alias Thorne

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I wonder if Ned voiced his displeasure over the deaths of the Elia's children? He was very vocal when it came to telling Robert that he should leave Daenerys alone, so I wouldn't be surprised if he expressed anger over the children's death too when it happened. If so the Martells might be aware of that Eddard would have spared Elia and the children had he taken King's Landing before the Lannisters, and thus don't hold him accountable for what happened.

Ned and Robert argued and fell out when Ned heard about the deaths of the young Targaryens. Ned left Kings Landing without resolving the argument to go break the siege at Storms End. They only reconciled when Ned told Robert of Lyanna's death.

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What I find most strange is why Doran, who is always patient and reasonable, would send his heir to meet this rebel, who could be an ally or just another doomed pretender? If the Iron Throne finds out about the meeting, they won't be very happy...

I'd say he's covering all the bases. He has already thrown in with the Targs, it will become known at some point. He knows Dany is the real deal for sure. He also knows that Quentyn is not he most handsome, dashing, or even smart fellow, so the chance of failure to marry him to Danny is high. Why not treat with YG...not to mention it is his nephew (allegedly). He's in bed with the dragons already, best find out if YG is real and what he is about.

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But how can Arianne be sure that oh yeah that is sure is my cousine.

Jon Connington who knew both Rhaegar and Elia believes he is their son. What could Arianne possibly notice on him, how on earth could she possibly confirm it? Everybody knows Aegon looked more like Rhaegar so even if he has not much Dornish features it is no proof at all to her that he is fake. How old was she when the whole thing happened? Around 5-6 years old? Connington definietly knew both parents better than she.

I don't see how could Doran think his daughter would be able to tell it wether he is real or not. I mean I dont believe there was no one in Dorne who actually knew both of Elia and Rhaegar personally and wasnt a kid when the whole Rebellion thing happened.

“A start?” said Ellaria Sand, incredulous. “Gods forbid. I would it were a finish. Tywin Lannister is

dead. So are Robert Baratheon, Amory Lorch, and now Gregor Clegane, all those who had a hand in

murdering Elia and her children. Even Joffrey, who was not yet born when Elia died. I saw the boy perish

with mine own eyes, clawing at his throat as he tried to draw a breath. Who else is there to kill? Do

Myrcella and Tommen need to die so the shades of Rhaenys and Aegon can be at rest? Where does it

end?”

Thank you tze. I loved it so much when Ellaria said it out. I never thought about Doran's fire and blood that it is awesome, or he could actually possibly bring justice. I really dislike Doran becuause of his long wait the people who will play willl be innocent ones, and because of it I dont have any respect towards him or towards his plan.

Edited by Silverin

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Off topic, but I wonder if the Damphair chapter confirms the speculation that he was molested by Euron as a child. Yikes.

Interesting. Sounds like Euron but I tend to doubt that one. I think seducing your brother's beloved wife is enough to cause a lot of hate--and maybe a death or two. I often wondered if Theon Greyjoy's brothers had molested him. The books mentions beatings and cruelties but not the molestations--and it would be strange if Theon was molested not Asha now that I think about it so I'll maybe that speculation should be ruled out.

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Doran had all the reasons to send an envoy,because he knew there was a possible alliance and maybe this Aegon may even be related to Daenerys' cause (like he's her van or something). But sending his heir makes it too official, at least for the outside eyes. If a spy of the Iron Throne notices it, it would endanger Nymeria and Tyene, who are at KL.

Maybe he could've sent some Santagar, under the excuse that he was checking the Santagar heir, who is in Estermont, to scout for a possible alliance an make sure it was worth the risk.

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Doran still has Trystane in Dorne so he still has an heir if anything does happen to Arianne but I think it is a matter of trust by sending her. She needs to be of some use otherwise the Sandsnakes are doing all the leg work and if she is ever expected to rule, she needs to contribute to the game.

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because Doran (1) sees a weak King, (2) Cersei as Queen Regent,

Is he sending Arianne off before or after he hears about Kevan's murder? We also don't know if Cersei even gets back her job as Regent after Kevan's death.

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Is he sending Arianne off before or after he hears about Kevan's murder? We also don't know if Cersei even gets back her job as Regent after Kevan's death.

apparently it's the second Arianne chapter so there is time for him to have heard of Kevan's death.

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