Things You Don't Like In Asoiaf

[old griff]

There are three things that I particularly dislike about ASOIAF

1) Prophecies: I'd rather have characters do things because they have free will and they are honest or not, and they make mistakes or do nice things... than having all set up from the beginning of time by some prophecy. Somehow is a lot less interesting if their fates are already written, than if they are in control of what happens.

2) The Others: I think the evil menace waiting to wipe out humanity is a little formulaic and LOTR-like. Also, what I like about ASOIAF is that most characters (besides Ramsay) are not completely evil or good, they are human, so they emotions and fuck things up, and regret things... The idea of a race of purely evil creatures doesn't fit. I'd be a lot happier if this was just about the plots regarding power in the 7K, with dragons as a mean to throw chaos and imbalance to the mix.

3) The messianic figure of AA and PWWP: Again, a little formulaic and LOTR-like. Also, I don't like the idea of a single heroic character coming in to save the day.

What do you dislike of ASOIAF?

(don't get me wrong, I really like everything else in ASOIAF, and maybe dislike is a strong word for what I mean with these three points.)

[VivaVictarion]

I love the personal/emotional nature of the ice and fire stories, but sometimes I wish that large scale battles played a greater role; or rather, I wish such battles didn't occur "off-screen."

I wish the map design featured labels for the seven kingdoms. Silly complaint I know, but when I first started reading the series I couldn't identify the locations/borders of the Stormlands and the Riverlands; nor the Crownlands. I realize only the Stormlands are one of the seven kingdoms, but the crownlands and the riverlands are featured significantly.

[mormont]

There are three things that I particularly dislike about ASOIAF

1) Prophecies: I'd rather have characters do things because they have free will and they are honest or not, and they make mistakes or do nice things... than having all set up from the beginning of time by some prophecy. Somehow is a lot less interesting if their fates are already written, than if they are in control of what happens.

And yet many of the prophecies in ASOIAF don't come true. Rhaego was never born, never became the Stallion Who Mounts The World. And (ADWD Spoiler)

Quaithe's prophecy that seems to foretell the arrival of Griff and Young Griff in Meereen is subverted by Tyrion's intervention.

I think the indication is that characters' fates are not necessarily written. After all, characters warn of the unreliability of prophecy all the time.

[old griff]

And yet many of the prophecies in ASOIAF don't come true. Rhaego was never born, never became the Stallion Who Mounts The World. And (ADWD Spoiler)

Quaithe's prophecy that seems to foretell the arrival of Griff and Young Griff in Meereen is subverted by Tyrion's intervention.

I think the indication is that characters' fates are not necessarily written. After all, characters warn of the unreliability of prophecy all the time.

Uhmm... that's true. Anyway, having a prophecy conditions or determines some of the characters behavior (like Cersei's, although that's not bad in itself), and I think that regarding the more important prophecies (AA - PWWP) the possibility of not being fulfilled is quite minor.

[ARYa_Nym]

Lady Stoneheart.

Jamie Lannister's "redemption" arc.

Certain scenes were too much like Biter and Brienne.

The romanticizing of certain relationships.

[old griff]

Lady Stoneheart. Jamie Lannister's "redemption" arc. Certain scenes were too much like Biter and Brienne. The romanticizing of certain relationships.

I really liked those parts, specially Jaime's as it added depth to the character. We thought he was evil, but then he's not. I think it's great when something like this happens (with certain consistency). Brienne vs Biter... well, ASOIAF is really crude and grime sometimes... and that's ok, it's a brutal world, as medieval europe was.

Which relationships are you reffering to?

[taurunum dire cat]

Grayjoys - cant stand them and I finde my self skiping trough most of theyr chapters

[ARYa_Nym]

I really liked those parts, specially Jaime's as it added depth to the character. We thought he was evil, but then he's not. I think it's great when something like this happens (with certain consistency). Brienne vs Biter... well, ASOIAF is really crude and grime sometimes... and that's ok, it's a brutal world, as medieval europe was.

Which relationships are you reffering to?

I hate Jamie even more now actually. I don't see why I'm supposed to feel bad for him or root for him. I can't wait until he dies. TBH, his redemption seems like more of his narcissism to me only he wants to be loved and respected as Goldenhand the Just instead of the feared and hated Kingslayer.

I don't like Dany and Drogo's relationship really. & the Sandor/Sansa has more to do with the fanbase except for the misremembered kiss.

[TippsBlackandWhite]

I dislike most of the prophecy stuff but as someone already pointed out, most of it only seems to hint at possibilities, not all of which come true. They don't really seem to reflect the future and as we see with Mel's many visions in the flames, interpretations seem very subjective. I mostly dislike Mel I suppose. Her little talk with Davos in the cell in ASoS really seemed to show she sees everything in too black and white of terms, which I think is at odds with the rest of the story. Also, I hate the shadow baby killers. I'm glad we haven't seen more of those.

[Killian Lannister]

Grayjoys - cant stand them and I finde my self skiping trough most of theyr chapters

Honestly, I think they'd skip your posts too.

The main thing I don't like is that other major houses such as Dorne and Tyrell don't get much coverage until Book 4 or onward (even worse for the Tyrells). I personally find the Dornish as interesting as the Starks, but that's just me.

[Jude-the-Obscure]

I like the way some prohecies become self fulfilling. The prophecy given to Cersei about the younger queen has made her paranoid and power grabbing. Her resentment of Margaery and her fear of having her power taken away by this younger queen leads her to do some very silly things. It is her reaction to the prophecy which make it come true. This shows the danger of placing too much reliance on prophecy. I also like the way Melisandre has also placed too much reliance on prophecy. She is so damn sure her ealier interpretations are correct that she starts forcing events to try and get them to fit the pattern she expects. She has really set Stannis up for one hell of a fall.

As for the others - to me they have a different role than the cliche baddies. They stand for "the things that you should be worried about, the stuff that really matters." So many character are in effect running around in circles to meet their own ambitions and to fulfill their own desires, and others get caught up in damage limitation trying to deal with the results of this. They've been too caught up in things that don't realy matter, and are ignoring the real danger. Yeah, this may also be a cliche but that's becuase it is so true ... such a strong theme in human history.

[King_In_The_North]

George's need to describe the sound of a warhorn.

[Stefan_Sasse]

I like everything so far. Initially I thought I disliked some things, but now I'm back firmly in the fanboy corner.

[eyeheartsansa]

The grease from the meat was running down his chin. . .

[old griff]

The grease from the meat was running down his chin. . .

and washed it all down with a pint of ale...

[Which Tyler]

shadow babies and necromancy - just too much deus ex machina for me; especially on first occurance, with no warning that they fit in the world.

Overpowered dragons - thank gods they're uncontrollable.

[Jude-the-Obscure]

George's need to describe the sound of a warhorn.

Oh god I forgot about that - it made me cringe .... even when I was reading it for the second time :ack:

shadow babies and necromancy - just too much deus ex machina for me; especially on first occurance, with no warning that they fit in the world.

Overpowered dragons - thank gods they're uncontrollable.

What ... you mean you didn't believe nan's stories were real!?! :eek:

Shame on you :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: (only kidding)

[HashRouge]

I do sometimes think there is a bit too much religion - and too many religious orders - in George's world. I was never very keen on Mel and all that jazz, but then the whole thing with the shadow babies and how she killed Renly....I HATED it. And now the religious weirdos have got Arya :stillsick:

[Frey Takes The Crown]

The dragons. Unless Vic or Euron steal them, I'm worried Dany is just going to swoop in at the last second and take Westeros, rendering the war of the five kings completely pointless.

[1234567]

Jaime's redemption arc. I don't even think he's that redeemed.

The lack of characters getting poetic justice. (Fingers are still crossed for Stoneheart taking out all the Freys.)

I also don't like how angry the events (especially related to the Starks) in the series make me.