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Dany won't save Westeros from the Others, the Others will save Westeros from Dany


Francis Buck

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The Others bring with them a Long Night, a permanent winter and an army of ice zombies, so whilst they may not be "evil", they are certainly not going to "save Westeros" from Daenerys.

Even that might be preferable to turning Westeros into Mereen with "Queen Dany" at its head!

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Even that might be preferable to turning Westeros into Mereen with "Queen Dany" at its head!

Oh, yes, you're completely right. Being ruled by a compassionate queen who freed slaves and seems to want to improve the lives of the smallfolk would be much worse than becoming an ice zombie. I'm glad we agree.

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Today I finished The Hand of the Queen chapter in ADWD.The previous is Jon's last chapter.The next is Daenerys' last chapter on ADWD.

ADWD SPOILER

Jon died on his last chapter.Killed by his own men,Othell Yarwick and Bowen Marsh.4 knives:one cut his throat,one took him at the belly,the third in the chest,and the fourth,he never felt the fourth,only the cold.

I now have fantasies about Wight Jon killing Yarwick and Marsh and declaring himself King of the Wall!Jon takes an army of Night's Watch,Wights and Others,teams up with Asha and Theon on the road and voila:For Ramsay Bolton Winter Is Coming.

Say,strange the Stark words "Winter is Coming". I always wonder if they are a threat,like Robb used them vs Tywin through the messenger:"Tell Lord Tywin Lannister that for him,Winter is Coming and twenty-thousand northmen are marching south to see if he really shits gold".Cos' if so,it means that the Stark Kings of Old brought "Winter" over their enemies.Who knows if this "Winter" is referred to the cold of the steel or to some other cold...

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Oh, yes, you're completely right. Being ruled by a compassionate queen who freed slaves and seems to want to improve the lives of the smallfolk would be much worse than becoming an ice zombie. I'm glad we agree.

Having a bad day? Or just having a humor-impaired moment?

Go get a cup of coffee and relax for a bit.

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Your "Queen" is stupid enough to take councils from The Harpy of Mereen and even marry one of the Harpy's sons.These "freedmen" are offically free only.May I periphrase David Icke:

In South Africa,before the Apparteid(is that how it's spelled in english) there were entire ghetos full of suffering poor people starving to death and these ghetos were in the journals' first page.After the fall of the Apparteid,the people who ruled SA lost only a few percentage of their richness,the ghetos are the same,the people in these ghetos still starve to death,but no one speaks now,beacause those people are now "free".

I don't know if this is true or not,but I know this is true in Mereen.

The people are poor,and die the same.They serve the same Masters,this time they get money,with which they buy the same food the Masters gave them for free.These masters lost a few percentage of their wealth only,and their offical power,but in shadows they still command Daenerys.Only that no one says a thing beacause these people are "free" now.The pale mare still rides through the city,the people still starve,but now they are free.

So,this queen of yours,is so stupid she might even surrender the Seven Kingdoms to the Others,if the Others would be smart enought to send a good diplomat.

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Interesting and thoughtful op.I like the concept of magic as essentially the same force,whatever the "religion".

We will definitely be finding out more about the Others and my pet theory is that Jon will become their leader and Sam will bring down the wall to let them through.

The Ice and Fire will probably neutralise each other,destroying many of the game of thrones players in the process,leaving a deserving non-player as the "winner".

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Indulge me a rambling moment:

Everything in moderation my friends. As Maester Aemon said, "Fire consumes but the cold preserves." But is one to be cherished above the other? No, its all about balance.

Most in Westeros consider Summer the greatest time of year, they hate the winter and summer is the time of joy. But fire (Summer) consumes. If there is no cold to preserve, then eventually all will be consumed.

House Targaryen represents fire. They had their rule over Westeros and look where it was leading, the Mad Kind was going to burn KL to the ground. Clearly Fire, Heat and Summer are not 100% good things. Similarly, Ice, Cold the Others ends life and isn't good either. No one wants to be preserved forever (Beric and Stoneheart).

So tying it into this conversation:

Its all about balance. Hence Jon Snow is the key, I'm not saying he'll be king of Westeros when its all said and done, but he will be the hero that brings ultimate balance. (If you believe R+L=J).

Dany has a role to play (obviously). But I think of her as on a mission of consuming. She wants to dominate Westeros like the Targs of old. That can't happen, the Targ rule experiment failed. So I suspect a major part of the remaining story will be whether Dany will give up on her dream of domination for the good of Westeros? Wouldn't surprise me if Tyrion helped her reach that decision, for good or ill.

I actually expect her foil for cold to be Bran. He loaths himself and the fact that he is broken. If cold preserves, maybe it can also heal. I suspect Bran will have to make a similar choice, fix himself and fulfill his dreams or resist, remain crippled and help fight off the Others. There is something dark and forboding about his chapters.

So I somewhat agree with the OP, there will be alliances based on Ice and Fire with some middle grounding and the solution will be about balance, not victory for one or the other.

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While I appreciate the time and thought that went into the making of this thread, I don't see the others helping anybody...ever.

I can certainly see Dany going nuts, and I personaly dispise her (I know I know, but she's just so.....STUPID!) but the others are just bad. They laughed about slaughtering that one guy from the nights watch, and every fantahistorical refrence to them is of death, blood, and evil.

It is possible that Dany looses her mind, and someone has to stop her, but that will not be the others.

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I doubt very much whether the Others will turn out to be anything but destructive. It seems a lot of people want to over complicate this aspect of the story.

It seems to me Dany has not embraced what she is, fire. She keeps trying to save and preserve, where her role seems to be to destroy the Others.

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I doubt very much whether the Others will turn out to be anything but destructive.  It seems a lot of people want to over complicate this aspect of the story.

It seems to me Dany has not embraced what she is, fire.  She keeps trying to save and preserve, where her role seems to be to destroy the Others.

But that wouldn't be the Martin we know, the one who loves twists.

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The Ice and Fire will probably neutralise each other,destroying many of the game of thrones players in the process,leaving a deserving non-player as the "winner".

Davos.

Good theory, but I don't see where Stannis fits into all of this. "The blue eyed king who casts no shadow" Just had a epiphany.

What if Jon was the "Blue eyed king"? What if he is revived but as a weight, not by Mel like everyone believes? And he claimed his spot as the Night's King and King of winter? Boss. If that happened, I can see the original post somewhat happening.

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Dany is a walking curse that everyone around her suffers having been near her, her brother, Drogo, all of the villagers in communities that died for her Drogo who did it for Dany. All of the cities that fall at her feet, all who do business with her, Jorah Mormont. The list goes on. Dany is one bad omen after another. We have already been told that Dragons are bad. I am still unsure what good the Targs brought to Westeros anyway.

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Dany is a walking curse that everyone around her suffers having been near her, her brother, Drogo, all of the villagers in communities that died for her Drogo who did it for Dany. All of the cities that fall at her feet, all who do business with her, Jorah Mormont. The list goes on. Dany is one bad omen after another. We have already been told that Dragons are bad. I am still unsure what good the Targs brought to Westeros anyway.

Good God, I'm with you. The Seven Kingdoms got along fine for millennia before the Targs landed and they'd survive without them just fine, too. For all of Dany's good intentions (which pave the road to hell), I fail to see how she's brought anything but death and destruction to Slaver's Bay. People are diseased, starving and being murdered in the streets. Oh, she freed slaves, as if that's an end unto itself. As if people can eat, live in, or get protection from simply being "free." She's crucifying people arbitrarily (did she card them, I wonder, to make sure they were the ones who crucified the slave children?), torturing them for information, murdering children, taking bad advice and ignoring good advice. She's too damn dense to see, as someone lovingly put it, The Harpy of Meereen sitting literally right in front of her. Is she really the best this story has to offer?

I disagree with a lot of the OP's arguments — namely that the Others can be a force of good at all, or bargained or aligned with — but I most certainly accept the basic premise that Dany is not the purely heroic figure people try to pass her off as.

I also agree that balance is of the utmost importance: too much ice, too much fire, and it's bad news.

Rhaegar = Fire

Lyanna = Ice

Jon = Ice and Fire

Jon's the balance.

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Rhaegar = Fire

Lyanna = Ice

Jon = Ice and Fire

Jon's the balance.

I can definitely see Jon being the balance. It doesn't really make any sense for him to be the King of Winter if R+L=J is true (which it almost certainly is). He's half fire himself.

Dany and Aegon would most probably be the champions of fire, but who on earth could champion ice? Of the Starks, Robb and Eddard are dead, Arya is off in Braavos, Sansa is in the Vale, Bran is a greenseer, and Rickon is four.

Perhaps the Others have a pair of commanders whom we haven't seen yet, but that would mean the story is slanted heavily in favour of fire.

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