Dany won't save Westeros from the Others, the Others will save Westeros from Dany

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

If the Starks aren't connected to the Others they will have gotten the short end of stick with mythical creature connections. What good is a direwolf against a dragon?

That's the wrong question. You should be asking, "Who's more powerful? The guy riding the dragon or the guy warging it?"

For all the talk about Dany "taming" Drogon (which is, I think, a fair/accurate way to put it), what good will that be if a talented warg like, say, Bran decides to hijack Drogon's consciousness?

(And yes I know that "warg" only refers to wolves. I still prefer it as a verb. :P)

[woweezowee]

I've gone to the trouble of registering just so I can say that, broadly speaking*, I completely agree with this theory and had independently reached the same conclusion. My main reasoning is a literary one: it seems a bit odd that the series could consist of six or seven books of interesting political maneuvering between morally grey characters, followed by one book of silly humans vs magical killing machines, good vs evil fighting. If that sort of ending is not what Martin has in mind, then we're more likely to see an escalation of what's happened so far: a civil war with sympathetic characters on both sides, both of them aligned with dangerous non-human forces.

Is Dany evil? Of course not. She has a number of sympathetic traits, such as her desire to free the slaves. However, when she returns to Westeros, the consequence will be more blood and death, more ordinary people suffering, simply because she believes she has a *right* to rule. She is not a heroic figure.

Are The Others evil? Possibly, but so far all we've seen is a handful of them doing what a great number of human characters have also done - revelling in killing somebody they perceive to be the enemy. Can they be reasoned with, or bargained with? Presumably, they seem intelligent. It's entirely possible that Bran, Bloodraven or Jon could strike some sort of deal with them.

So this strikes me as a plausible theory, not contradicted by anything that's happened so far, and more satisfying and interesting than the cliched endings which some people have proposed.

*There are some details I disagree with. It seems likely to me (based on the House of the Undying prophecy) that Dany will kill Aegon, who is a fake and possibly a Blackfyre; and that (based on Littlefinger's tactics so far) he will try to more or less sit out the conflict and then profit from the chaos. I also think it's possible that Bran or Bloodraven, rather than Jon, will bring the Others into play.

[StannisWins]

Just wanted to chime in and say that threads like these are why I&F is so awesome. What a great read.

[QuaitheTheShadow]

The Dany hate is strong with this thread. . . .

Neither Jon nor Dany have a reason to be opposed to one another so this theory seems to be based on two unsubstantiated premises:

(1) Martin doesn't want the others to be evil (2) Jon is so incredibly awesome that he - not Dany - is gonna save the world!

I doubt either is correct.

[Ser Amoc]

I like the OP's theory, in general. I don't know about the specifics, but I've always thought about why the Others are evil. What exactly is their motivation? What is their history? Where do they come from?

Everything else in this series is just so grey in terms of characters, motivations, and story lines that you don't really get something that is purely evil. The Others seem to go against this. What is their endgame? They're obviously not mindless. There's more to them than being evil just because.

Will Jon Snow team up with them? I don't know about that, but without really knowing anything about the Others, I can't say one way or another with any certainty.

[woweezowee]

The Dany hate is strong with this thread. . . .

Neither Jon nor Dany have a reason to be opposed to one another so this theory seems to be based on two unsubstantiated premises:

(1) Martin doesn't want the others to be evil (2) Jon is so incredibly awesome that he - not Dany - is gonna save the world!

I doubt either is correct.

I don't think you need to 'hate' Dany to agree with the theory. You just need to accept the possibility that, in trying to conquer Westeros, she could end up fighting the likes of Stannis and various Northern Lords, which is plausible.

As for the two 'unsubstantiated premises':

1) Nobody knows what Martin 'wants'. We're all just speculating. I would find a concluding book in which sympathetic characters existed on both sides of the conflict more satisfying than a concluding book in which everyone ganged up to fight zombie hordes, and believe it would be more consistent with the spirit of the series thus far.

2) This is completely untrue. The theory doesn't assume that at all. I agree with the theory, but find Jon a relatively dull character atm. The thread title is misleading in this respect: if you read the body of the original post, the suggestion is that a civil war will take place between characters aligned with the Others and characters aligned with fire/dragons. Jon will play a large role for one side. That's all.

[QuaitheTheShadow]

I don't think you need to 'hate' Dany to agree with the theory. You just need to accept the possibility that, in trying to conquer Westeros, she could end up fighting the likes of Stannis and various Northern Lords, which is plausible.

As for the two 'unsubstantiated premises':

1) Nobody knows what Martin 'wants'. We're all just speculating. I would find a concluding book in which sympathetic characters existed on both sides of the conflict more satisfying than a concluding book in which everyone ganged up to fight zombie hordes, and believe it would be more consistent with the spirit of the series thus far.

2) This is completely untrue. The theory doesn't assume that at all. I agree with the theory, but find Jon a relatively dull character atm. The thread title is misleading in this respect: if you read the body of the original post, the suggestion is that a civil war will take place between characters aligned with the Others and characters aligned with fire/dragons. Jon will play a large role for one side. That's all.

Actually, I think the Others may have been the original inhabitants of the north along with the children of the forest. When man arrived, they were pushed back into the Lands of Always Winter. They tried to retake what was theirs during the long night, but, with the help of the children of the forest, they were stopped. Now that magic has returned to the world, the Others are about to try again. They aren't evil, their goals just aren't aligned with those of men, so they may as well be evil.

1) I'm just noting the amount of "Dany is so stupid, barbaric, awful - I'd remove my eyes with a spoon if she saves the day" type of comments that have sprinkled the past three pages.

2) Yes, I'm speaking broadly. I don't think Martin ever intended the Others to be good in any way. Neutral, maybe, but they won't fight on behalf on man or unite with Jon.

3) Most of the posts following the theory involve Jon stopping Dany which will make the world a better place. So yes, Jon becomes the hero who saves the world. Jon is the 'ice and fire' that saves the world by bringing balance to it. Same difference.

I just don't see this happening. My interpretation. Nothing more.

[Lady Olenna]

Well I have so much running through my head right now. I'm going to begin with stating that i dont believe the WW's just kill and bring chaos as someone unthread stated. I think they are too intelligent for that.

There are soooo many loose ends in the books right now that even trying to theorize the ending causes a headache. My feeling is that GRRM is not going to make it easy on us and by the end we will lose a lot of characters we love. I'd love to buy into the good vs evil/Ice vs fire theology but at this point I'm starting to think there is going to be some unexpected catastrophic natural event or even some "enemy" we have never even heard of that will hit westeros on a grand level.

Picture the two sides North vs South battling each other and mid battle some crazy out of this world event happens and they get stuck fighting or surviving that event together. As a reader you may start off thinking I want Dany and her dragons to whoop some north tail or vise versa but then suddenly everyone is equally threatened and we are all holding our breath to see who survives.

I know it's cliche and all but I've given up on the two sides battling it out. By the time the last book is written I'm hoping for a surprise ending.

Most of all I'm hoping for answers about all of the things we analyze to death waiting for the next book.

[Tree Warg]

Lovely topic. Very well thought premise. I like the idea but I am not sure all of that will come to fruition.

I still find myself wondering if the "3 Headed Dragon" isn't going to be all Starks. They are "wargs" after all and no one else can control the dragons as such. I think the Bttersweet ending that Martin refers to is that they won't necessarily be the good guys everyone is expecting or they will simply turn on each other.

[David C. Hunter]

There is one thing GRRM doesn't want and that is a cliche fantasy ding of the evil dark lords of the north trying to bring darkness to the realm because they are evil. The Others are such a red herring at this point it shouldn't even be denied anymore. I mean GRRM said many times already he hates te cliche post-Tolkien evil lord in the north thing. He's setting us up. It's not going to be like that in this series