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Do you find the story of a GoT show slow


skroth

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I'm posting here, so I won't have to worry about spoilers from further books in the series (not ADWD though), but do you find the story very slow in the show? It's just I wonder how many times we'll have to keep hearing about what a threat the white walkers pose before they actually invade? I've only read the ASOIAF wiki and I know we won't see another white walker for a long time, into the third season. Seems the show is more about Drama than Fantasy, like a Medieval Soap Opera.

Also, several things are quite disappointing. Seems George Martin builds you up for things that will never happen. True, we may see Denarys(Sp?) invade Westeros eventually, but is anyone disappointed that we heard such a vehement speech from Khal Drogo, but now we never will see him "Tear down their stones houses, kill the men in Iron Suits, Take their children as slaves, and Bring their broken gods back to Vas Dothrak? Since the book series will only be 7 long, meaning a Dream of Spring will be the last book, it doesn't seem enough to fit the two invasions into.

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Seems the show is more about Drama than Fantasy, like a Medieval Soap Opera.

[....]

Also, several things are quite disappointing.

[....]

Since the book series will only be 7 long, meaning a Dream of Spring will be the last book, it doesn't seem enough to fit the two invasions into.

Yes, it definitely feels like a medieval soap opera. Someone needs to tell George that we don’t need multi-generational cliffhangers. It is quite disappointing the way he builds you up to so much stuff and then never delivers. We see a lot of that with both Feast and Dance, much moreso than in previous novels, which all felt like they actually had proper beginnings, middles, and endings. No such thing occurs with Feast and Dance, and it’s a big problem with those two volumes. I can’t even call them novels anymore; they’re just volumes, installments really, in a soap opera. Novels have endings, and those didn’t.

That leaves an incredible amount of finishing up to be done for just two remaining installments in Winds and Dream.

Frankly, I can’t see how he is going to be able to do it. I predict that in a couple years now he’ll tell us that oh gosh there will be now be an eighth soap-opera installment called A Time for Wolves, to come after Winds and before Dream. Compared with Game, Clash, and Storm, Feast and Dance have made me lose any confidence that Martin is actually going to be able to finish this within his lifetime, or mine.

Sigh. Such a waste. We’ll never know about so much. Does anyone know whether Martin has a youngest son he can bequeath his notes to as literary executor and pull a Christopher Tolkien on us?

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Sigh. Such a waste. We’ll never know about so much. Does anyone know whether Martin has a youngest son he can bequeath his notes to as literary executor and pull a Christopher Tolkien on us?

I've heard a rumour (several times, now) that Martin had put in his will that in the event of his death prior to completing the novels, the executor is to burn all his notes on the series and that the series was to remain unfinished. Not sure if it's true though.

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You are basically criticizing much of what is good and different about the series, so maybe it's just not for you.

In the first act of the series in both the show and the books we find out that the Others/White Walkers are real. To everyone actually in the story they are a thousands year old legend. Those on the Wall take it seriously, but they don't even remember what is they are supposed to do if they actually run into them, and they are the ones who are supposed to be defending against them. Most everyone else south of the wall don't take it seriously, don't think the wall does anything other than keep the wildlings out, and doubt whether the White Walkers ever existed in the first place. So you the viewer/reader know something they do not. Those that do take it seriously have to keep trying to make everyone else understand, because they just don't get it. The King is a lot more worried about a teenage girl across the ocean than the undead army preparing to bring about the end of the world. So that's quite a different dynamic to the story, that everyone is caught up in their own petty "game of thrones" rather than facing the real serious threat, and even we as the viewer get caught up in the all the other stuff too and we know for sure what the real threat is.

Yes, there is misdirection. Why is that a bad thing?

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I write as a fan of the books first. It has been over eight years since I read the first three books for the first time. But as one who recognises that the medium of a book series is very different to that of a TV show.

IMO the book series starts to suffer serious pacing problems in book 4, but the problem for the TV series is that the problem of diverging storylines sets in even earlier. GOT has been compared to shows like The Sopranos and Deadwood, but in later series it would be like those shows but with every major character seperated from one another and not interacting.

A succesful show IMO has tight pacing and delivers its story well before the audience starts to lose interest and leaves them wanting more. The events need to be compressed and a way found to tell the entire story in six seasons. My worry is that the show's producers sound too concerned about following GRRMs plot too slavishly. Yes stick to the book as much as possible for GOT, for it can be improved on little as a plot for a TV show, but after that they need to start to think about plotting their own course, heading to the same destination, but by a straighter route.

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I"m half way through a feast for crows, after seeing season one on HBO (Yes I read them that fast).

And while I know the books are better than the show (Duh), the show has a lot of great content. The whole point of this series is not to be the expendables sirca 1200 A.D, but to show the more realistic side of society. In the real world, its not as simple as the good guys conquer the bad guys, cause the bad guys have it coming. People with bad intentions like greed really did (and do) scheme and plot, and win, and people with great intentions like freedom, family, and honor really do try, and fight, and die. I would like to see more action, and more of the big battles played out, but even in the books Eddard Stark does not die after a great battle. He gets tricked and has his head lopped off. And the battle of the whispering wood happens both off screen and outside the sight of the character who it's written from (Cat). Martin wrote his books to be more about the drama than the battles.

So while the drama is played up and the action is downplayed in the show, it's still really close.

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<<<The King is a lot more worried about a teenage girl across the ocean than the undead army preparing to bring about the end of the world. So that's quite a different dynamic to the story, that everyone is caught up in their own petty "game of thrones" rather than facing the real serious threat, and even we as the viewer get caught up in the all the other stuff too and we know for sure what the real threat is.>>>

The trailers to the series highly advertized the fact of these two great threats, as well as the show yet we haven't seen either of them in detail. We get the threat of the white walkers rubbed in our face almost every single episode, First we see them, then the hand, then the reanimated wight, Then Benjen going missing, then the wildling woman saying what a threat they represent. Then Samwell reading about them in the book in Maester Aemon's library (actually that came after the wight, but still)

Yes, there is misdirection. Why is that a bad thing?

It isn't always a bad thing, but it's certainly bad when he pumps you up for something you get excited for that never actually happens. Wouldn't you be disappointed if heard about a great sci fi movie, and went to see it and it was a comedy instead? Assuming you liked sci-fi, or course/

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It isn't always a bad thing, but it's certainly bad when he pumps you up for something you get excited for that never actually happens.

I don't agree at all. I want plot turns, and I want to be surprised, and I don't want to be able to predict the future course of events while reading.

Specially because this is how the real world goes: good guys do not always prevail in the end, honest people are betrayed, the best laid plains fail, and the young hero fighting alone against all odds is likely to get killed.

Wouldn't you be disappointed if heard about a great sci fi movie, and went to see it and it was a comedy instead?

This is a terrible example, you'll agree. GRRM is "misdirecting" in terms of plot, not in terms of genre.

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The trailers to the series highly advertized the fact of these two great threats, as well as the show yet we haven't seen either of them in detail. We get the threat of the white walkers rubbed in our face almost every single episode, First we see them, then the hand, then the reanimated wight, Then Benjen going missing, then the wildling woman saying what a threat they represent. Then Samwell reading about them in the book in Maester Aemon's library (actually that came after the wight, but still)

Sooooo...it is about fantasy then? :) Seems like we had plenty conflict with the Others/wights.

I'm not sure what you expect? A big battle at the end of the first book, where the Others are defeated, so that the next 6 books deal with...err...

Or every season ending with a big battle with the Others but they are never defeated until the last big battle?

It isn't always a bad thing, but it's certainly bad when he pumps you up for something you get excited for that never actually happens.

Depends on what happens instead. :) The dragons was supposed to be an even more exciting event. Now, you might prefer a big battle instead but if you want big battles then you probably will be dissappointed with the show. Its not going to happen a lot on TV, although seemingly we will see the Blackwater in S2.

A succesful show IMO has tight pacing and delivers its story well before the audience starts to lose interest and leaves them wanting more. The events need to be compressed and a way found to tell the entire story in six seasons. My worry is that the show's producers sound too concerned about following GRRMs plot too slavishly. Yes stick to the book as much as possible for GOT, for it can be improved on little as a plot for a TV show, but after that they need to start to think about plotting their own course, heading to the same destination, but by a straighter route.

Well, apparently D&D and HBO disagree with you as they seem to be planning a pretty faithful adaptation of aCoK (and they should know what they are doing). They have also said that aSoS is going to need more than 1 season, so there goes your idea about 6 seasons also. :) It will take at least 7 to cover all the story.

Certainly if you only like shows with tight pacing then you aren't going to be a fan. But I certainly don't think that a successful show has to have tight pacing. It makes it easier but D&D got away with it in S1 and must think they can do it again in S2. They must like a challenge. (I do agree that major changes are likely if they ever get to aFfC and aDwD though). And if they make S2 work like S1, then it will be all the more admirable.

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This show is not slow at all compared to other tv-shows. Especially when you recognize that there are only 10 episodes and that it tells many more paralell stories than normal. The world has already been turned on it's head for most of the characters, and the political situation in Westeros is completely changed. It may be slow compared to movies like Lord of the Rings, but not compared to Lost (first four seasons), Mad Men, Deadwood, Breaking Bad, anything I can think of. I think one of the good qualities of this series is that it is driven by the interaction between characters and not mainly the big forced plot directives like in most fantasy. That is also one thing that will make it interesting for a larger group of people other than fantasy fans.

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Well, apparently D&D and HBO disagree with you as they seem to be planning a pretty faithful adaptation of aCoK (and they should know what they are doing). They have also said that aSoS is going to need more than 1 season, so there goes your idea about 6 seasons also. :) It will take at least 7 to cover all the story.

The writers have said they haven't even thought about Season 3 yet, because it has not been given a greenlight, but that ASOS will require more than one season, which is no doubt correct to do it properly. That doesn't necessarily mean they are planning to allocate two full seasons to it. Bringing some material into S2, and some left for S4, would match what they have said, without requiring further seasons.

I would love a nearly completly faithful TV adaption until the start of AFFC, becauseI love the first three books, but I want above all is a show that makes it to the end, even if it means some compromises along the way. I believe a fully faithful adaption won't make it because they will lose too much audience share with AFFC and ADWD and if u=you need to make changes there you need to look at earlier seasons as well.

Finally, Babylon 5 Five seasons, BSG four seasons, Game of Thrones nine seasons (if it follows GRRM suggested pacing) notice a difference?

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That doesn't necessarily mean they are planning to allocate two full seasons to it.

I never said otherwise. :) In fact, I said that the series will take at least 7 seasons to finish. If aSoS took up 2 seasons then 7 would be too small (in all probability). Although, I do hope they don't feel obligated to try to squeeze a lot of aSoS chapters into S2. 2 or 3 is fine.

Given what D&D have said, I think they believe they have to leave a substantial amount of aSoS for S4 (if we get that far of course). 20% say.

I believe a fully faithful adaption won't make it because they will lose too much audience share with AFFC and ADWD and if u=you need to make changes there you need to look at earlier seasons as well.

Why? The first 3 books have their own arc. Filming that to completion doesn't really effect how you should film the rest. What happens in aFfC and aDwD is that they introduce a lot of new characters/plots. That's the major challenge there.

I think getting a great adaptation of the first 3 books should be the main target. Compromising there because of what may happen in later seasons would be foolish because we still might not get those seasons either way.

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I don't find it slow... however, having seen the show first rather than reading the books, I found it confusing to keep up with the characters...

I found it confusing to keep up with the characters when I first read the book too, so I don't think that is an issue with the form of medium.

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I completely disagree with the OP, especially when it comes to the Others invading. Yeah, I'm curious as to the enigma they represent, but I find the rest of the series's action to be completely absorbing. If GRRM hadn't built up the White Walkers, then I'd just be content to read about the Westerosi game of thrones.

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