mediocre cheese Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Well I think Sandor's dislike of Tyrion is understandable. Sandor's position in life is owed to his own skill at arms, absent that he would be nothing. By contrast Tyrion is the embodiment of aristocratic privilege, he is a dwarf who's never been in combat who mocks and insults sandor, and hides behind his higher birth to avoid answering for these words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Don't forget that this line was also said in a time when Sandor was feverish and borderline delirious.Well we agree to diagree on the Lollys bit. I feel he would have made an effort at least. Probably jumped in, and severed a few heads. The only difference is that he would have died saving Sansa, but with others he may make an effort but give up when he sees he can't make a difference one way or another. I actually think the fact that he was feverish/delirious and near death underscores the point that there is something more to him and Tyrion's relationship. It's when we're near death that we tend to say all the things that have been bothering us or stuff that we regret. This is why he confesses to Arya that he took the song etc.. He's upset at Tyrion for marrying Sansa yes, but he's more upset at himself it seems for not having done away with Tyrion years ago for some other thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugger that Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I didn't get the feeling that the emnity that the Hound feels for Tyrion is something deep rooted... I think people are reading too much into this "should have killed him years ago", the guy was drunk after all... Up to the Blackwater incident, I just think he generally dislikes him, as he probably does most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headtrip_honey Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 So, as suggested, I made a LJ community where we can have no-holds barred discussion re: Sandor and anything else we might desire. Just make a free LJ account and join up! Have fun, guys: http://fysandorclega...ivejournal.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Scared the hell out of me....As was the intent, I believe ;) Perhaps we should have called this thread R+L=J 496, and we would have been in good stead. Anyways, getting back to Sandor! So can anyone see Sandor getting involved in the bigger storylines and how so. How would Sandor react to Dany for instance... if he has by now met up with Sansa then most likely he won't be able to avoid hobnobbing with the big guns in Westeros. And as much as I want him and Sansa to find some little hovel in the deepest woods, GRRM is unlikely to share that vision. So through what route does Sandor find redemption for Saltpans and how is able to put his fighting skills to use again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 As was the intent, I believe ;) Perhaps we should have called this thread R+L=J 496, and we would have been in good stead. Anyways, getting back to Sandor! So can anyone see Sandor getting involved in the bigger storylines and how so. How would Sandor react to Dany for instance... if he has by now met up with Sansa then most likely he won't be able to avoid hobnobbing with the big guns in Westeros. And as much as I want him and Sansa to find some little hovel in the deepest woods, GRRM is unlikely to share that vision. So through what route does Sandor find redemption for Saltpans and how is able to put his fighting skills to use again? He could return to the story through the Rhollor plot line as Thoros did say after his fight with Beric that "the Lord of Light is not yet done with Joffrey's Hound, it would seem". Though how and in what context I have trouble seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlespider Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 And those new guidelines are a bit unsettling, what does : "speculation that might as well be fanfic" mean? Isn't that what most of the threads are about anyway (not just the Sandor Clegane threads), speculating about what might happen? My guess: shipping related speculation that's independent of a serious discussion of the plot. Also, pervy speculation as to what a potential sex scene would be like. I PMed Kat to clarify whether some plot speculation was alright, e.g., 'what will happen to the Clegane lands?' or 'will he fight UnGregor?' or 'what will be the fallout from Saltpans?' or 'is he ever leaving the island?' or 'does he have a peg leg?' Still haven't heard back but I suspect that reasonable plot speculation along these lines is alright, whereas plot speculation that's only concerned with how, where, and in what position he will get laid is getting to be annoying to the mods. I concur with AverageCheese's assessment of the dislike of Tyrion; this is a guy who hates people, a total misanthrope. I'm sticking with my "Ironborn sack Quiet Isle" theory for how he'll eventually leave his haven. I don't think he has any reason to leave it otherwise: there's nothing to draw him out and everything to keep him there. And he better keep that hood up when he leaves. BwB would hang him on the spot, and my guess is that anyone else who recognizes him as Joffrey's dog would execute him without even bothering to send to King's Landing. Well, though they'd eventually send his head in hopes of a reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Été Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 As was the intent, I believe ;) Perhaps we should have called this thread R+L=J 496, and we would have been in good stead. Anyways, getting back to Sandor! So can anyone see Sandor getting involved in the bigger storylines and how so. How would Sandor react to Dany for instance... if he has by now met up with Sansa then most likely he won't be able to avoid hobnobbing with the big guns in Westeros. And as much as I want him and Sansa to find some little hovel in the deepest woods, GRRM is unlikely to share that vision. So through what route does Sandor find redemption for Saltpans and how is able to put his fighting skills to use again?Kill UnGregor in suitably dramatic fashion, saving Dany, Sansa, Cersei or some other damsel in distress. A wounded Brienne, if GRRM really wants to fuck with the trope. I don't care if it's teh cheese, it would be awesome. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hmmm, maybe he'll end up saving Jaime Lannister... I just can't figure out the relevance of Brienne telling Jaime the Hound has Sansa. Assuming that it's a straight up lie, why tell that one... Why not just say look I found Sansa by a ditch on the roadside come quick? And it doesn't seem like Brienne to bring Jaime into a trap, but we know for sure that Sandor doesn't have Sansa, so what is going on! Ok so here's my crackpot, Brienne was actually smarter than she appeared on that backwoods rambling journey for Sansa, and she has figured out that Sandor really is on the Quiet Isle... what does she do next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hmmm, maybe he'll end up saving Jaime Lannister... I just can't figure out the relevance of Brienne telling Jaime the Hound has Sansa. Assuming that it's a straight up lie, why tell that one... Why not just say look I found Sansa by a ditch on the roadside come quick? And it doesn't seem like Brienne to bring Jaime into a trap, but we know for sure that Sandor doesn't have Sansa, so what is going on! Ok so here's my crackpot, Brienne was actually smarter than she appeared on that backwoods rambling journey for Sansa, and she has figured out that Sandor really is on the Quiet Isle... what does she do next? I think Brienne used very careful language. She said the Hound had the girl. She knew the Hound had Arya. I think Jaime and Brienne will encounter a girl of roughly the right appearance and someone wearing the Hound's Helm, in a set up by the BWB to see if Jaime will be true to his word. Also with Brienne's face messed up on one side, I think she will end up with the Helm and be the Hound Shadow of Bran's prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I think Brienne used very careful language. She said the Hound had the girl. She knew the Hound had Arya. I think Jaime and Brienne will encounter a girl of roughly the right appearance and someone wearing the Hound's Helm, in a set up by the BWB to see if Jaime will be true to his word. Also with Brienne's face messed up on one side, I think she will end up with the Helm and be the Hound Shadow of Bran's prophecy. Hmm, I like this Rapsie. So basically Jaime is being put to an elaborate test by the BWB to see if he's really honourable... and yeah I do think Brienne may end up wearing that helm too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hmm, I like this Rapsie. So basically Jaime is being put to an elaborate test by the BWB to see if he's really honourable... and yeah I do think Brienne may end up wearing that helm too. This is an extension of an earlier theory I posted that The Hound persona will become detached from Sandor Clegane's name at some point (like the Dread Pirate Roberts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Fang Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 This is an extension of an earlier theory I posted that The Hound persona will become detached from Sandor Clegane's name at some point (like the Dread Pirate Roberts).Hello, my name is Sandor Clegane, you killed my father, prepare to die!Or is that sort of the opposite of your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hello, my name is Sandor Clegane, you killed my father, prepare to die!Or is that sort of the opposite of your point? Good line, but only if Ungregor is around! I kind of had the idea, not that people will suddenly forget that Sandor Clegane was known as the Hound but through time the story of the Hound will become detached from his name and the helm itself will sort of become symbolic for whoever is the Hound at that time. Same as the King of Westeros varys depending on who is wearing the crown. I saw a similar argument about Brienne stating that if she is remembered in song / history, her moniker of Brienne the Beauty may become twisted and in songs she is described as a beauty. In ASOS Tyrion has a similar thought when he laments that he will be remembered in history as the evil dwarf who poisoned his young nephew King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Été Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Hello, my name is Sandor Clegane, you killed my father, prepare to die!Or is that sort of the opposite of your point? Sandor wakes up from his sepsis-coma with a Spanish accent, says, "Bother this nonsense," and takes a vow of silence so nobody can laugh at him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooqueen126 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 yeah but the problem with Ironborn sack the Quiet Isle is that the Quiet Isle is best source of alibi. Otherwise even if he ends up as Winterfell's master at arms or the Lord of the Dreadfort people will still creep up North to assassinate him for the Saltpans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlespider Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 yeah but the problem with Ironborn sack the Quiet Isle is that the Quiet Isle is best source of alibi. Otherwise even if he ends up as Winterfell's master at arms or the Lord of the Dreadfort people will still creep up North to assassinate him for the Saltpans.Well, yeah, it is the best source of alibi for him, so it will make things doubly shitty for him when it's sacked. So it would be bad for him (unless EB survived the sack) but somehow I doubt Martin is planning things to be peachy for him anyway. I do think that that's the most likely way to get him off the Isle, though, and we already know that there are Ironborn in the Narrow Sea. It would be in character for them as Viking-parallels to start sacking monasteries. It would also increase Ironborn mojo, which is a little iffy for me anyway. He also doesn't have any reason to leave the island: Elder Brother is interested in protecting him and isn't going to tell him anything that would put him in jeopardy. From Sandor's position: he knows that he is screwed if he leaves the island, what with being a deserter from the Kingsguard. Also from his perspective: neither Stark girl wants him around. If they're sacked, and he's forced to leave the island, that will catapult him right back into the thick of it: he won't go south to KL. He'll be right in BwB territory. And Brienne's there: she's also heard Elder Brother's story of his innocence. (Not that lady Stoneheart will care though.) ETA: Lord of the Dreadfort? Heh. I sorta like the sound of this. Somehow I think Dreadfort lords in the past have not given a fuck about their evil reputations. So there's something fitting in a twisted way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooqueen126 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 little spider: ETA: Lord of the Dreadfort? Heh. I sorta like the sound of this. Somehow I think Dreadfort lords in the past have not given a fuck about their evil reputations. So there's something fitting in a twisted way...well much as I love the idea of Sansa and Sandor living happily ever after in Clegane's Keep. It will be hard to pull off (desertion from the Lannisters being one of many reasons). If Sandor does survive his dual with Ungregor (pursuit of Ungregor could cause him to leave by his own choice) then the only place safe for him would be the North, since the Dreadfort will shortly be empty... Sansa if she where to become Rickon's regent then she could easily manipulate her brother into giving her the Dreadfort as a dowry/17th birthday gift and then they will breed whippets together...Re Whippets: Reasoning being that Dreadfort is in a similar location to Leeds, it has the whole Manchester vs Liverpool rivalry with White Harbour (both Liverpool and White Harbour have a mermen as a symbol) vs Dreadfort (Manchester has a borough called Bolton and whilst the symbol of Manchester is a bird, they also have whippets). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'dsingforyou Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Thanks so much for the welcome! :) I don't want to cause any trouble with what I say on here so I may need some clarification on some terms you use before I say too much more as I have never heard them before this forum.</p>Just to make clear, I approve of your squeeing, just wanted to make sure that we can keep talking about our boy and not get axed. So we're trying to avoid (among other things) excessive shipping and/or speculation about said shipping. I'm happy to follow the rules but I don't think I have ever "squeed" before. Lol Is that just posting? And is "shipping" going into more fanfic etc and away from talking factually about the books and what has happened? Headtrip_honey – yesterday 1:03pm - "would like to submit this as evidence that Rory as Rory can be quite smokin" – yeah alright, I'll give you that photo :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Maidens Fantasy Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Hmm, the QI seems to be the place where driftwood wash up. Perhaps also shipwrecks? It is storm season after all. Perhaps a ship from the Vale crashes on its shores? Either with news or an interesting passenger. Or one of the Golden Companys ships? Or Aryas ship when she is on her way to her next destination? Since Sandor is big and strong I can imagine him helping with the rescue and hearing news/seing Arya before the Elder Brother can interfere. I know it is a bit cheesy, but it is a way to get Sandor back in the story :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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