Parallels between ASOIAF Characters and Historical Figures

[mediocre cheese]

I don’t whether anybody has read Robert Graves, but I feel there is a great degree of parallels between tyrion and the roman emperor Claudius

Tyrion/ Claudius are born physically deformed, and shunned/kept out of political life by their family despite being quite intelligent.

Tyrion/Claudius are disliked by their only living parent and constantly verbally put down by them.

Tyrion/Claudius are both noted for being fond of wine and drinking and yet also being quite intellectual/learned.

Tyrion/Claudius are not notable generals or warriors, whereas their father and brother are.

Tyrion/Claudius are dislike/ physically mocked and insulted by their nephew, the monarch (Caligula was described as playing cruel practical jokes on Claudius, similarly to Joffrey’s pouring of the cup on tyrion and trying to get him to ride a pig)

Tyrion/Claudius have a one brother, who is a handsome warrior in a monogamous relationship, and one sister who cuckolds her royal husband. (Obviously the key difference here is Cersei/jaime’s relationship has no parallel in the roman royal family)

Tyrion/Claudius had a wife who has sex with a high number of men in a single sitting. (honestly when I read the whole tysha incident in GoT I thought of Suetonius’s account of Messina’s competition with the prostitute and how both were equally implausible).

I imagine it’s all just a coincidence, I don’t think Martin has ever cited classical history as an inspiration, but I thought it was notable.

By contrast I read somewhere that Martin said William the conqueror was the inspiration for Aegon the conqueror, which seems weird to me, as the only connection seems to be that they both conquered something, and were subsequently called Conqueror.

Anyone else see any historical parallels with any character in paticular?

[Frey Pentos]

I read the Targs as being like an old Roman dynasty. Mad Aerys wanting to burn it all has echoes of the Emperor Nero.

[Lord_Debaka]

I see the Mad King being quite a bit like Stalin. Paranoid, hysterical, and more than willing to kill his own people.

[Yellow Dog]

I love Graves as well as Derek Jacobi who played Claudius in the BBC series, but this never occurred to me. Congratulations on a unique take.

Love it also because it implies my man Tyrion will, indeed, end up on the Iron Throne.

[Jenny of Oldstones]

We've been over the parallels between Margaery Tyrell and Anne Boleyn in previous threads, but she also reminds me a bit of Marguerite of Provence. Besides the similar names Marguerite was from the luscious, agriculturally rich Provence, the birthplace of medieval chivalry. As a young girl Marguerite was given in marriage to a young king and managed through her charm to insert herself into her husband's good graces and become his confidante, to the ire of the boy's mother who strived to assert political power through her son and didn't want anyone else taking her place as his favorite councillor. Blanche of Castile attempted to subvert Marguerite and humiliate her however she could, including forcibly keeping the two from sharing a bed then making Marguerite take a pilgrimage for her apparent inability to conceive. However once Marguerite did give birth to the heir to the throne she proved herself to be shrewd and ambitious herself and was a key force in forging a (tentative) peace with France's hereditary rival England.

[mediocre cheese]

I see the Mad King being quite a bit like Stalin. Paranoid, hysterical, and more than willing to kill his own people.

Really, I can't see them being anything alike. Stalin wasn't hysterical, and being paranoid and willing to kill your own people is true of practically every tyrant in history. Stalin was ultra-competent, and was a self-made man, wheras aerys is a total failure and ascended the throne due to dynastic lineage.

I saw littlefinger as being the stalin counterpart, a self-made man, and just as trotsky and the other red army generals overlooked stalin and didn't fear him while lenin was alive because he was just the party secretary and never fought in the civil war, everyone overlooks LF because hes not a warrior. Also stalin was foriegn, and LF is of braavosi origin.

I think aerys is very similar to some of the weirder roman emperors like frey pentos said.

[bianca]

GRRM has declared many times taking inspiration on the War of the Roses between the York and the Lancaster for the English throne. There are some interesting parallels in it. For example, Edward IV, a Yorkist, broke a marriage alliance with France by marrying Elizabeth Woodville, who had a Lancastrian background, gaining a lot of resentment because of it, and eventually a treason in his closest circle.

There are also the Princes in the Tower, Edward's two sons who were imprisoned after his death never to show up again, being presumably killed by a Lancastrian supporter, which could be a paralel to Bran and Rickon fake deaths.

[The White Raven]

You could compare the downfall of the Targaryen Household with that of the Romonov Dynasty the Tsars in Russia, both families were murdered and comparisons can also be made between Daenerys and Anastasia Nikolaevna.

The 3000 Unsullied versus the 40,000 (can't recall exact number) Dothraki at Qohor always reminded me of the 300 Sparten at the Battle of Thermopylae.

[The Marquis de Leech]

I don’t whether anybody has read Robert Graves, but I feel there is a great degree of parallels between tyrion and the roman emperor Claudius

Tyrion/ Claudius are born physically deformed, and shunned/kept out of political life by their family despite being quite intelligent.

Tyrion/Claudius are disliked by their only living parent and constantly verbally put down by them.

Tyrion/Claudius are both noted for being fond of wine and drinking and yet also being quite intellectual/learned.

Tyrion/Claudius are not notable generals or warriors, whereas their father and brother are.

Tyrion/Claudius are dislike/ physically mocked and insulted by their nephew, the monarch (Caligula was described as playing cruel practical jokes on Claudius, similarly to Joffrey’s pouring of the cup on tyrion and trying to get him to ride a pig)

Tyrion/Claudius have a one brother, who is a handsome warrior in a monogamous relationship, and one sister who cuckolds her royal husband. (Obviously the key difference here is Cersei/jaime’s relationship has no parallel in the roman royal family)

Tyrion/Claudius had a wife who has sex with a high number of men in a single sitting. (honestly when I read the whole tysha incident in GoT I thought of Suetonius’s account of Messina’s competition with the prostitute and how both were equally implausible).

I imagine it’s all just a coincidence, I don’t think Martin has ever cited classical history as an inspiration, but I thought it was notable.

By contrast I read somewhere that Martin said William the conqueror was the inspiration for Aegon the conqueror, which seems weird to me, as the only connection seems to be that they both conquered something, and were subsequently called Conqueror.

Anyone else see any historical parallels with any character in paticular?

Also: Tyrion and Claudius both have an elder relative renowned as a cruel and cunning politician (Tywin and Livia respectively). Aforementioned relative is habitually nasty to Tyrion/Claudius, but recognises that they are actually competent.

ASOIAF, on paper, is essentially I, Claudius meets the War of the Roses with a dash of Gormenghast and Shakespeare.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Really, I can't see them being anything alike. Stalin wasn't hysterical, and being paranoid and willing to kill your own people is true of practically every tyrant in history. Stalin was ultra-competent, and was a self-made man, wheras aerys is a total failure and ascended the throne due to dynastic lineage.

I saw littlefinger as being the stalin counterpart, a self-made man, and just as trotsky and the other red army generals overlooked stalin and didn't fear him while lenin was alive because he was just the party secretary and never fought in the civil war, everyone overlooks LF because hes not a warrior. Also stalin was foriegn, and LF is of braavosi origin.

LF is charismatic though, which is something Stalin never was. Also LF lacks the paranoia and sheer stubborness of Stalin.

Insofar as LF is anybody, he's Peake's Steerpike with a dash of Shakespeare's Iago. On the other hand, Steerpike can be seen as having been influenced by the rise of a certain Austrian corporal, so you could argue an indirect connection.

[Ah Man]

I've never heard GRRM say he took any inspiration from China, but I've always thought there were some remarkable parallels between ASOIAF and China's Three Kingdoms Period following the fall of the Han Dynasty.

The most obvious comparison is the Wall to... the Great Wall. Chinese civil wars after the fall of the Han are often suggested to have...

a. Allowed the Great Wall in the North to fall into disrepair and become sparsely manned.

b. Deplete Chinese military strength.

...allowing the Mongols to march South and conquer China. In this case, the Mongols are parallel to the Others.

Finding individual characters with parallels is a bit more difficult, but here's a few:

Tywin Lannister/Cao Cao - Cao Cao was a brilliant military strategist from a fairly powerful family who took control of the Han Emperor, never actually deposing him, but holding all the military power and making all the decisions, and making sure everyone in power around the capital was loyal to him, first and foremost. Cao Cao's son would depose the Emperor and become the Second Emperor of the Wei Dynasty (because, in an attempt to avoid the title usurper, he declared Cao Cao Emperor posthumously). Like we can probably foresee for the Lannisters, the Wei Dynasty is often excluded from historical listings of the China's dynasties, as they never united China, and were quickly supplanted by the Sima clam, which formed the much longer lasting Jin Dynasty.

Daenerys Targaryan/Liu Bei - Liu Bei was an indirect Han descendant who eventually declared himself emperor, fighting for a Han restoration. He was militarily outmatched, but managed to secure increasing power until he died and his inept son followed him. This relied heavily on his charisma, and the fact that he bound to his cause the most brilliant military strategist of the era: Zhuge Liang. Zhuge Liang was known as "Crouching Dragon," so he's obviously parallel to Drogon, as weird as that sounds. Zhuge Liang was especially well known for his brilliance using fire to overcome numerical disadvantages.

Mace Tyrell/Sun Quan? - This one's a bit more of a stretch. Sun Quan was the ruler of the third of the "Three Kingdoms," and the Wu Emperor. Dramatizations tend to glamorize Liu Bei's rebellion, but Sun Quan was the strongest competitor to Cao Cao's (and his descendants') hegemony. Never the less, this parallel holds pretty well, because for much the Three Kingdoms period Wei and Wu were allies, but throughout the period they saw each other as the major threat to their own claims.

[voodooqueen126]

Perhaps the conflict between Illyrio and the Tattered Prince of Pentos is based either off the Guelphs and the Ghibellines

http://en.wikipedia....and_Ghibellines

or the expulsion of Piero Medici

http://en.wikipedia....the_Unfortunate

With Daenerys being in the role of the French, with whom Piero was allied with in order to return to Florence

or the Compi revolt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciompi

[Alexia]

Tywin Lannister IS Shakespeare's Henry V. Have you ever read Henry's speech at Harfleur?

How yet resolves the governor of the town?

This is the latest parle we will admit;

Therefore to our best mercy give yourselves;

Or like to men proud of destruction

Defy us to our worst: for, as I am a soldier,

A name that in my thoughts becomes me best,

If I begin the battery once again,

I will not leave the half-achieved Harfleur

Till in her ashes she lie buried.

The gates of mercy shall be all shut up,

And the flesh'd soldier, rough and hard of heart,

In liberty of bloody hand shall range

With conscience wide as hell, mowing like grass

Your fresh-fair virgins and your flowering infants.

What is it then to me, if impious war,

Array'd in flames like to the prince of fiends,

Do, with his smirch'd complexion, all fell feats

Enlink'd to waste and desolation?

What is't to me, when you yourselves are cause,

If your pure maidens fall into the hand

Of hot and forcing violation?

What rein can hold licentious wickedness

When down the hill he holds his fierce career?

We may as bootless spend our vain command

Upon the enraged soldiers in their spoil

As send precepts to the leviathan

To come ashore. Therefore, you men of Harfleur,

Take pity of your town and of your people,

Whiles yet my soldiers are in my command;

Whiles yet the cool and temperate wind of grace

O'erblows the filthy and contagious clouds

Of heady murder, spoil and villany.

If not, why, in a moment look to see

The blind and bloody soldier with foul hand

Defile the locks of your shrill-shrieking daughters;

Your fathers taken by the silver beards,

And their most reverend heads dash'd to the walls,

Your naked infants spitted upon pikes,

Whiles the mad mothers with their howls confused

Do break the clouds, as did the wives of Jewry

At Herod's bloody-hunting slaughtermen.

What say you? will you yield, and this avoid,

Or, guilty in defence, be thus destroy'd?

Tyrion Lannister is Shakespeare's Richard III. A misshapen little creature who kills nephews.

Robert Baratheon is Edward IV, with no purpose in life other than women and a good fighter.

Sansa Stark is Anne Neville (marries first Prince Edward, son of Henry VI, and then Richard III).

Aerys Targaryen is Henry VI, mad as a hatter and loses a kingdom because of it. Although Henry was a nice mad, and Aerys... wasn't.

Cersei Lannister is Elizabeth Woodville, grasping for power and advancing her family members.

[voodooqueen126]

Tywin Lannister IS Shakespeare's Henry V. Have you ever read Henry's speech at Harfleur?

How yet resolves the governor of the town?

This is the latest parle we will admit;

Therefore to our best mercy give yourselves;

Or like to men proud of destruction

Defy us to our worst: for, as I am a soldier,

A name that in my thoughts becomes me best,

If I begin the battery once again,

I will not leave the half-achieved Harfleur

Till in her ashes she lie buried.

The gates of mercy shall be all shut up,

And the flesh'd soldier, rough and hard of heart,

In liberty of bloody hand shall range

With conscience wide as hell, mowing like grass

Your fresh-fair virgins and your flowering infants.

What is it then to me, if impious war,

Array'd in flames like to the prince of fiends,

Do, with his smirch'd complexion, all fell feats

Enlink'd to waste and desolation?

What is't to me, when you yourselves are cause,

If your pure maidens fall into the hand

Of hot and forcing violation?

What rein can hold licentious wickedness

When down the hill he holds his fierce career?

We may as bootless spend our vain command

Upon the enraged soldiers in their spoil

As send precepts to the leviathan

To come ashore. Therefore, you men of Harfleur,

Take pity of your town and of your people,

Whiles yet my soldiers are in my command;

Whiles yet the cool and temperate wind of grace

O'erblows the filthy and contagious clouds

Of heady murder, spoil and villany.

If not, why, in a moment look to see

The blind and bloody soldier with foul hand

Defile the locks of your shrill-shrieking daughters;

Your fathers taken by the silver beards,

And their most reverend heads dash'd to the walls,

Your naked infants spitted upon pikes,

Whiles the mad mothers with their howls confused

Do break the clouds, as did the wives of Jewry

At Herod's bloody-hunting slaughtermen.

What say you? will you yield, and this avoid,

Or, guilty in defence, be thus destroy'd?

Tyrion Lannister is Shakespeare's Richard III. A misshapen little creature who kills nephews.

Robert Baratheon is Edward IV, with no purpose in life other than women and a good fighter.

Sansa Stark is Anne Neville (marries first Prince Edward, son of Henry VI, and then Richard III).

Aerys Targaryen is Henry VI, mad as a hatter and loses a kingdom because of it. Although Henry was a nice mad, and Aerys... wasn't.

Cersei Lannister is Elizabeth Woodville, grasping for power and advancing her family members.

Stannis is sort of like Richard III,

and Jaime could be a bit like Anthony Woodville

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Woodville,_2nd_Earl_Rivers

except with Anthony Woodville shared Tyrion's intellectual interests.

[SeanF]

There's a lot Henry V in Stannis though, Just, but very severe. Like Stannis, Henry was prepared to burn heretics.

Shakespeare's Richard III is a good deal more malevolent than Tyrion - but still one of my favourite characters in literature.

There are some parallels between Tyrion and Claudius. But differences too. Tyrion is given real work to do by his father (if grudgingly) as Deputy Hand, and Master of Coin. And his father does reward him with a very good marriage. And, Tyrion does prove to have some military ability.

WRT incest in the Roman Royal Family, Caligula (on whom Joffrey is surely modelled) allegedly committed incest with all his sisters, and Nero with his mother. Claudius of course married his niece (Nero's mother) who poisoned him.

[Sellsword_Watson]

I can't believe no one has brought this up yet, but Eddard Stark just smacks of Sir Thomas More...

[Alexia]

Shakespeare's Richard III is a good deal more malevolent than Tyrion - but still one of my favourite characters in literature.

Of course... but can't you see some bard in 200 years writing a play or an epic poem based on the War of Five Kings featuring the Imp as a leading character a la Shakespeare's Richard III? Especially after the Lannister power grab ends, and especially if the Starks or Stannis end up victorious.

[voodooqueen126]

Of course... but can't you see some bard in 200 years writing a play or an epic poem based on the War of Five Kings featuring the Imp as a leading character a la Shakespeare's Richard III? Especially after the Lannister power grab ends, and especially if the Starks or Stannis end up victorious.

Actually i have been trying to talk about this on this thread

http://asoiaf.wester...re-shakespeare/

but what are some likely titles for the future Willem Breakspear plays in Westeros?

[SeanF]

Actually i have been trying to talk about this on this thread

http://asoiaf.wester...re-shakespeare/

but what are some likely titles for the future Willem Breakspear plays in Westeros?

"The Tragedie of that Moste Subtil and Eville Imp, Tyrion of House Lannister."

[Shaggydog Stark]

Cersie reminds me of Catherine de' Medici who grasped power through her sons after her husband's death. She became regent and ruled. She did not understand the political motivations of the Huguenots nor their movement which is exactly like Cersei. She was ruthless and a terrible ruler. She was from a rich banker family. Her husband didn't love her but was in love with his mistress.

I have a feeling we will see a similar event as St. Bartholomew's Day massacre after Cersei's trial. She is really angry at the High Septon and will not forget the offense.