Did Cersei murder Melara?

[Waiting]

I don't agree with those who argue that as theses chapters are from Cersei's POV, she wouldn't be hiding a childhood murder of a friend, she would explicitly state it. She doesn't explicitly think about having the High Septon killed, but it is hinted at and then Jaime figures it out. People go to great lengths to convince themselves that they are better people than they actually are and to rewrite the more dire moments of their personal histories, even to themselves. Cersei spends a lot of time justifying her awful deeds to herself, I think she would have avoided thinking about it for. So long that when it pops up she just pushes it back down again.

Personally, I think she murdered Melara. I think it was a combination of Melara knowing something damaging about Cersei, and Melara gunning for Jaime - enraging Cersei.

[Dagon Greyjoy]

What if Melara fell into the well without Cersei's help and she just let her die?

If Cersei could have called for help and did not, Cersei would in a very real way be Melara's death.

[Thor Odinson]

I disagree. Arya had heard what she believed was a plot against her father's life, she had ended up outside of the city gates and the guards were not going to let her back into the city. Her invoking her father's name is not an indication of being spoiled, it was the only way she possibly could get back into KL. It bears no resemblance to Cersei telling Tyrion's wet nurse she would have her tongue cut out because she only needed teats or telling Maggie the Frog that the would have her whipped if she didn't get her fortune told. Cersei was lording it over the common people because she could. Arya had no choice, otherwise she would have been stuck outside the city.

Exactly. Moreover, does anyone really think that Arya was making a serious threat? That she really would've gone to her father and demanded their heads? Get real. She was just throwing empty threats around, which she only did because she was in dire need. She certainly wouldn't have ever followed through on them. Cersei, on the other hand, would definitely be willing to follow through on any threat she made, and she didn't make them out of dire need but out of pure capriciousness. As others have pointed out Cersei's a sociopath, and I'm dumbfounded that anyone could seriously compare young Cersei with young Arya and claim that they're at all alike.

[Buried Treasure]

I think that, having killed Melara to keep her silent on the prophecy, Cersei justified the action to herself by deciding that Melara had betrayed her by trying to steal Jaime. Cersei has a track record of justifying her actions as due to 'betrayal', recall how she thinks that Sansa repayed her kindness by betrayal, or how she wanted to turn away when the Blue Bard (who she knew to be innocent) was being tortured but could not because 'this was treason'.

[Toshio.Keepiru]

Yep - I'm 100% with Cersei being a killer as a 10 year old.

The interesting thing is that this parallels Arya's own childhood killing spree. Yet we cheer for Arya as a spunky survivor just doing what she has too, and condemn Cersei as a sociopathic megalomaniac.

Moral relativity, literary dichotomy... fun storytelling!

Except that when Arya starts killing she's trying to hide her identity, her father is dead and her family scattered across the continent.

While Cersei is safe with her family, not on the run and it's implied that Melara's crush on Jaime could have inflamed Cersei's jealousy.

Their circumstances are definitely not the same when they kill. Hence the differences in how their actions are viewed. It's not moral relativity; it's an actual difference in circumstances.

Aside from the prophecy Cersei's life was not in danger from Melara, unless the loss of Jaime's affections is a literal death sentence. Arya's situation could've led to her death or at least being turned over to Lannister custody if the wrong person found out about her identity

[mrunderhill]

Except that when Arya starts killing she's trying to hide her identity, her father is dead and her family scattered across the continent.

While Cersei is safe with her family, not on the run and it's implied that Melara's crush on Jaime could have inflamed Cersei's jealousy.

Their circumstances are definitely not the same when they kill. Hence the differences in how their actions are viewed. It's not moral relativity; it's an actual difference in circumstances.

Aside from the prophecy Cersei's life was not in danger from Melara, unless the loss of Jaime's affections is a literal death sentence. Arya's situation could've led to her death or at least being turned over to Lannister custody if the wrong person found out about her identity

Arya's killing is not as bad as Cersei, but it is still pretty bad. You have Brienne struggling to kill and when she does her first kill is one of the worst men around. Many knights have died, because they have struggled to kill in the heat of battle. Arya is very quick to kill the stable boy, who really has done nothing wrong. I agree Cersei probably did have her killed. It is the kind of thing she would do. Her first resort to any threat is to have them killed and she speaks as if Melar deserved her death.

[Toshio.Keepiru]

Arya's killing is not as bad as Cersei, but it is still pretty bad.

The stable boy was going to capture her and turn her over to the Lannisters for a reward. It was also shortly after she had come across the bodies of her father's men. It was an act born of desperation, and not planned out in advance and committed shortly after her father was betrayed and captured by Littlefinger and his men were murdered.

With Cersei it could have been a spur of the moment decision or a premeditated act.

[mrunderhill]

The stable boy was going to capture her and turn her over to the Lannisters for a reward. It was also shortly after she had come across the bodies of her father's men. It was an act born of desperation, and not planned out in advance and committed shortly after her father was betrayed and captured by

Littlefinger and his men were murdered.

With Cersei it could have been a spur of the moment decision or a premeditated act.

Which is why I said it was not as bad, but it was still pretty bad or do you not agree?

[Manderlay]

Ofcouse Cersei killed Melara, we have reason to think she didn't , after all cersei is evil, manipulative who had Jamie in her clutches from a young age.

[Toshio.Keepiru]

Which is why I said it was not as bad, but it was still pretty bad or do you not agree?

Considering how King Joffrey treated his bride to be and how he might've treated Arya, who's Direwolf actually bit him and caused his humiliation at the Riverbank? Yeah it was bad but then if the stableboy didn't try to capture her, she wouldn't have stabbed him.

It's bad but considering the situation with the betrayal of the Hand of the King taking place I probably don't think it's as bad as you do.

[mrunderhill]

Considering how King Joffrey treated his bride to be and how he might've treated Arya, who's Direwolf actually bit him and caused his humiliation at the Riverbank? Yeah it was bad but then if the stableboy didn't try to capture her, she would've have stabbed him.

It's bad but considering the situation with the betrayal of the Hand of the King taking place I probably don't think it's as bad as you do.

We are getting off topic, but I think it is more disturbing that bad. In the situation I can understand why she did, but I think it is more disturbing she could do it at such a young age.

[Toshio.Keepiru]

Well in that world attitudes toward childhood and when people become adults are different.

It was also as noted in a highly stressful situation when the stableboy said he was going to turn Arya in for a reward from the Queen.

As opposed to the Melara incident. We don't know how much duress Cersei was under when Melara died.

[Lady Winter Rose]

Cersei thinks that she was 10 when she first met Rhaegar at the tourney in Lannisport. This is the same tourney at which she, Melara, and Jeyne went to see Maggy the Frog. Cersei later says that Melara was 11 when she died and that this death occurred "soon" after they'd seen Maggy in her tent.

Either Martin mistake (not the first time), either Cersei's birthday was couple days after the tourney (chronologically - tourney - prophecy, couple days or one month after Cersei's birthday- Melara's death)

[Lady Winter Rose]

I believe it was mistake on Martin's part.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

Either Martin mistake (not the first time), either Cersei's birthday was couple days after the tourney (chronologically - tourney - prophecy, couple days or one month after Cersei's birthday- Melara's death)

I believe it was mistake on Martin's part.

Sorry, I'm too dense to see the mistake. Melara was 11, Cersei 10 - where is the mistake in that?

[Daena the Defiant]

I think that, having killed Melara to keep her silent on the prophecy, Cersei justified the action to herself by deciding that Melara had betrayed her by trying to steal Jaime. Cersei has a track record of justifying her actions as due to 'betrayal', recall how she thinks that Sansa repayed her kindness by betrayal, or how she wanted to turn away when the Blue Bard (who she knew to be innocent) was being tortured but could not because 'this was treason'.

I concur.

[Naathi Prince]

Cersei was killing at a young age. The difference between Cersei and Joffrey is that Cersei didn't raise herself. She learned to lie about what happened to inflict pain on those she wanted to punish, although she most certainly made sure they got punished. You can see that in the story the Viper tells Tyrion. Cersei calls Tyrion's wet nurse a milk cow and treats to have her tongue out. This type of vicious behavior, although no one would dare tell Joanna or Tywin, is known among the servants at Casterly Rock and in Lannisport, and it is likely that these whispers from servants to servants is why Cersei was refused as a bride for Rhaegar Targaryen.

Looking at the timeline, it strong looks like

1. Tywin and Aerys made plans to marry Rhaegar to Cersei, when both were quite young. Rhaegar was born in 259, while Cersei was born in 266. Most like, since 270, there had been agreement between Aerys and Tywin to marry Rhaegar and Cersei, or at least an understanding. The Lannisport Tourney happened in 276. Rhaegar would have been 17, with Cersei at 10, ideal ages for a bethrothal. Rhaegar can live a happy early twenties doing whatever he wants and then in four or five years, he marries Cersei Lannister, the daughter of the Hand of the King and the wealthiest family in the realm. She is even said to look like Joanna, the woman Aerys wanted more than his own wife. They stage a tourney in Lannisport to celebrate the event and announce it publicly, and Aerys chooses to reject Cersei due to the news of her tendencies, in the same manner that the Tyrells decided to kill Joffrey. He chooses to humiliate Tywin on top of this because he is jealous. It is only AFTER the tourney in Lannisport that Aerys sends his cousin Steffon Baratheon to find a wife in the Free Cities for Rhaegar. This mission fails, and it is now 279, and his son Rhaegar is twenty and unmarried. Due to his public shaming of Tywin, Aerys is forced to look only at the other Great Houses of Westeros for a bride. Lyanna Stark was too young and already betrothed to Robert Baratheon. Jon Arryn has no daughters. Catelyn Tully is spoken for and the Tullys are a clear step down from the Lannisters anyway. There are no Baratheon women, and the Tyrell women were spoken for. This is why Aerys picked Elia Martell, a woman uniquely unsuited to the role of Queen.

[Light a wight tonight]

It's pretty clear that Cersei is responsible for Melara's death. Probably 90% probable that she actively pushed Melara into the well and 100% certain that she did nothing to have Melara rescued, knowing that she was in the well.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Given that Maggy flat-out told Melara that her death was "in the tent," the death is anthropomorphized to be female and Cersei explicitly remembers the sounds Melara made when she was drowning in the well, I think this is one of the more obvious implied events in the series. I highly doubt it's ever outright confirmed, but everything adds up. Nice kick in the teeth to the people who swear up and down what a poor put-upon girl Cersei was before Robert ruined her — physically assaulting her newborn brother and murdering a fellow child.

[The Fat Huntsmen]

For those still wondering why Cersie would kill her friend when the the prophecy said she would, I have a personal theory. Melara told her to forget it and she did. When Melara quite "acidently" feel into the well Cersie did not think about Maggy the Frog. There is a line early in AFFC's where Cersie mentions that she forgot all about the prophecy untill Joffery died. When she does mention Maggy predicted Melara's death it seems to me that she never pieced it together until now.