Complete Cyvasse Rules

[LordBiscuit]

MikeL, these rules are simple and absolutely brilliant. Bookmarked.

I already know what my next programming-for-fun-project is gonna be.

[MikeL]

Thanks LordBiscuit! Last Thursday I finished reading all 5 books back to back in the space of 3 weeks. You might say I'm a new fan and this has been bouncing around in my head since then.

I've realised there's an inconsistancy in the flanking rules Zuberi and I suggested: ie that the two lower ranked pieces have to be next to each other (and next to the target piece) for their strength to be additive, but this is only the case for the lower strength pieces like rabble which more orthoganally one space. Heavy horse cannot move orthoganally, yet surely should be able to be a part of flanking play.

Hopefully this should formalise it a bit better: In any flanking play there is the target piece, the attacking piece, and the flanking piece. It is intended to help the attacking piece (lower strength) move into the spot of the target piece (higher strength). The strength of the flanking piece should not have to be the same as the attacking piece, nor should the flanking piece have to be right next to the attacker or the target. What is important for consistency is that both pieces should be able to move into the target piece space on the next move (no mountains in the way, etc).

So a rabble might be attacking the target piece, but the flanking archers are actually two spaces away in a straight line, or to take a more extreme example, a light horse is attacking a target when the flanking elephants or dragon are across the other side of the board. This would also apply to a piece attacking from the sea, if that port was already flanked by another piece, a lower strength piece could move from the adjacent corner. Below are only examples of where the flanking piece is at the same strength or higher than the attacking piece (otherwise it wouldn't be a flanking play, just an attack).

Attacking piece strength Flanking piece strength Highest target strength that can be taken

Low Low, Medium, High, Dragon or King Medium

Medium Medium, High, Dragon or King High

High High, Dragon or King Dragon

I think that all makes sense,

Cheers,

[Mumatil]

Too many crossbowmen pieces.

I can agree with most on the mountains, dragon, king, etc.

But I would like some pieces to be a bit different and move and not too remminiscent of chess.

Also I think Heavy Hosre would have advantage over spearmen.

And I could give a lick about each piece assigned an attack value. It would be much simpler to say which pieces kill which.

The rabble needs a special motive, much like the pawn, Could move across the board and intersect pieces and or some special ability thats hardly used right but by a decent player can be devastating if used right. More like a distraction piece.

Also a hexagonal board....ew

[MikeL]

MikeL, these rules are simple and absolutely brilliant. Bookmarked.

I already know what my next programming-for-fun-project is gonna be.

Nice :) let me know if/when you put it online. I should have studied programming myself, with all the ideas I'm having now. No time to learn or implement them any more (grr).

[LordBiscuit]

If you actually think about playing by the rules proposed here, you arrive at the following conclusions:

Trebuchet is fucking overpowered. No sane person will ever take less than 3.

Spearman as well. No sane person will ever take less than 3.

On a hex board, diagonal movement is by far harder to block than orthogonal movement (Which is fine, but should be accounted for).

A 91-hex board (six hexes a side) is too crowded for so many pieces. Just look.

All these specials are really hard to program :/ I hate to make an exception for each piece, and it complicates the game without need.

I'm proposing a new set of rules, which keeps the charm of trumps and specials, has mental complexity, programming simplicity, and is easier to memorize:

• Board size changed to 169-hexes (seven hexes a side)
  
• Setup is identical to MikeL's setup
  
• Winning condition: Have a King & Have a piece in the opposing Fortress.
  You do not "ruin" a Fortress. The whole point is to capture your opponent's castle as your own
  
• Any tier 2 (see table) piece is automatically promoted upon entering the Fortress if the King is dead.
  If such a piece is present there at the time the King falls, it becomes the new King immediately.
  
• Tie condition: Nobody has a King, nobody has any tier 2 pieces.
  

Here's the table(Actually, here's a PNG of a table):

http://oi45.tinypic.com/35jm3x3.jpg

• In order to capture a piece, you must have a piece with the same tier or higher.
  
• Flanking: Having another piece with at least the same tier as you threaten the piece you're trying to capture gives you a +1 bonus to tier.
  
• Defending piece @ the Fortress has +1 tier.
  Does not apply for capturing piece.
  
• The Dragon can't enter any Fortress
  
• Weapons: Rock beats Scissors, Paper beats Rock, Scissors beat Paper.
  Countering the piece you're trying to capture gives you a +1 bonus to tier.
  Being countered by the piece you're trying to capture gives you a -2 penalty to tier.
  A piece without a "Weapon" cannot counter and cannot be countered.
  
• Movement types:
  Diag - Diagonal movement. Might have maximum number of diagonal places
  Orth - Orthagonal movement. Might have maximum number of Orthagonal places
  Speed - Can move through any path with a maximum number of movement.
  
• Archery: The ability to capture over other pieces (But not over mountains).
  
• Siege: The ability to capture over other pieces (Including mountains).
  

Notice that Heavy Horse is just an improved Light Horse, and that the same applies with Elephant/Spearman and Trebuchet/Archer.

[Trebuchet Penguin]

Great idea. Some ideas:

-heavy horse with a higher attack value but less movement

-light horse as a quick unit but easily trapped and less attack.

-Rabble buff: If moving towards own fortress, double movement speed

-To debuff the Treb, one could need to put a piece directly in front as protection and support in order to fire, plus a decreased movement speed.

-The average speed should be about the same. Right now you have units that move 1 each but have other units that can fly across the board. This creates weird problem where all the strong and fast moving pieces are killed, leaving the weak and slow behind.

-Perhaps a debuff for a dragon. If a dragon is completely surrounded, it is dead. That way it will prevent the dragon from flying in and out, picking out straggling units or badly placed ones.

[LordBiscuit]

Are you talking my proposed rules or someone else's?

Right now there are three sets of rules posted here, so it's hard to tell who you're addressing.

[LordDolorousEdd]

well done! I really hope they release an official version though

[Trebuchet Penguin]

Are you talking my proposed rules or someone else's?

Right now there are three sets of rules posted here, so it's hard to tell who you're addressing.

I was improving MikeL's set. Are there 3? Im not aware of them, perhaps OP should update this thread.

Edit: just saw yours, i like the idea of a seven sided board but perhaps some less pieces?

-Archers and crossbowmen should be seperate. They are two different units, medieval wise and ASoIaF wise. I suggest both units have the same speed as heavy horse/spearmen

Heavy horse should have a decreased speed as a knight would have to have a train of squires, baggage, etc etc

[Creecs]

I think there was said, that Tyrion should not bring the dragon early in the game.

And i think it would be good, if you could place pieces later in the game.

Hope you know what i mean ;)

Edit: Or what about if you can't place all pieces in the first round, because i think the table is very full if both players have all pieces out

[Trebuchet Penguin]

Bump.

[LordBiscuit]

Bump? So let me say a few things.

Me and a friend of mine have played the game with some sets of rules, improving the rules each time we play using our experience from previous games.

My program is fully working and two players may play on it using the same computer. Online play is in progress, since I'm a total newbie to establishing a connection between two distant machines. There is a workaround for playing with people who aren't physically with you. I'll explain in details if anyone cares to listen.

If you want the program, PM me. I want to have some control over its distribution for now. You'll also need to install .NET 4 framework if you don't already have it.

Here are our most updated rules, which were inspired by everyone who proposed rules on this thread:

Here is my most updated set of rules:

• Board size is 169-hexes (seven hexes a side)
  
• Setup is identical to MikeL's setup
  
• Winning condition: Have a King & Have a piece in the opposing Fortress.
  You do not "ruin" a Fortress. The whole point is to capture your opponent's castle as your own
  
• Any tier 3 (see table) piece is automatically promoted upon entering the Fortress if the King is dead.
  If such a piece is present there at the time the King falls, it becomes the new King immediately.
  
• Tie condition: Nobody has a King, nobody has any tier 3 pieces
  
• In order to capture a piece, you must have a piece with the same combat score or higher.
  
• Combat score: Tier + w/e bonuses you have
  
• Flanking: Having another piece with at least the same tier as you threaten the piece you're trying to capture gives you a +1 bonus to combat score.
  
• Defending piece @ the Fortress has +1 tier (Does not apply for capturing piece).
  

Pieces (Everthing will be explained soon):

Name;Tier;Movement;Weapon;Special;Quantity;Restriction Group

Mountain;-;-;Normal;-;7;-

Dragon;4;Queen;Normal;Colossal;1;-

King;0;Speed 1;Imba;Leadership;1;-

Rabble;1;Speed 1;Normal;Promotion;6;Light

Crossbowman;1;Speed 1;Imba;Archery;6;Light

Light Horse;2;Diagonal 2;Scissors;-;3;Medium

Spearman;2;Orthogonal 3;Rock;-;3;Medium

Archer;2;Speed 2;Paper;Archery;3;Medium

Heavy Horse;3;Diagonal;Scissors;-;3;Heavy

Elephant;3;Orthogonal;Rock;-;3;Heavy

Trebuchet;3;Speed 2;Paper;Artillery;3;Heavy

I know it looks like shit, but if you copy it into a text file and open the file with MS Excel it should be fine. I didn't find a table option here.

What's a restriction group?

You may only have 7 pieces of each restriction group. Individual piece restrictions still apply.

What do the movements mean?

• Orthogonal/Diagonal: Self explanatory
  
• Queen: Both orthogonal&diagonal
  
• Speed: Any tile whose distance doesn't exceed the limit (Yes you get blocked by pieces)
  
• Number: Limit of possible tiles in any direction
  
• No number: Infinity!!!!
  

What do the specials mean?

• Archery: +1 to range when capturing. May capture over other non-mountain pieces
  
• Artillery: +1 to range when capturing. May capture over other pieces (including mountain)
  
• Promotion: At the end of your turn, if inside your fortress, you promote this to a one higher tier unit. This time only individual piece limit count (So you can have more than 7 light pieces, as long as you don't have more than 3 of each)
  
• Leadership: Always flanking
  
• Colossal: Can't enter ANY fortress
  

What do the weapons mean?

Rock beats Scissors beats Paper beats Rock. Imba beats everyone. Normal doesn't care.

If you "beat" someone, +1 to combat score if you're trying to capture them.

If you're "beaten" by someone, -1 to combat score if you're trying to capture them.

ETA: Note that the heavy units are just improved versions of the medium units. It makes stuff easier to remember when you think that way.

[Trebuchet Penguin]

Perhaps a OS neutral system? I'm on Linux.

[LordBiscuit]

In a few months, I'll probably be able to do stuff like that.

Unfortunately, I'm only a highscool graduate, so I have absolutely no idea how to make such a thing.

Maybe run it on Wine?

[Trebuchet Penguin]

Try making a version in flash or java that uses a pre-made multiplayer service.

[LordBiscuit]

bump

Rules problem. If you get to the lategame and both players still have dragons (It was a cautious game when both players played rather defensively), it's an automatic tie because lategame there aren't many tier 3 pieces and the dragons just hunt those that remain and the king.

I think the rules of flanking need changing.

Right now they've been changed to:

A flanking piece needs to have the same tier or the same rock-paper-scissors weapon or the leadership special

In case that's not enough, the next thing to test will be that X flankers give +X combat score, so technically you can take down the dragon with three tier 2 pieces

[MichaelMurphree]

I made an account specifically for this topic. I am in the middle of book five and became interested in this game. Specifically, I became interested in designing this game for iDevices and possibly Android. This topic had really good rules set up for this game, and I want to use them in my adaptation. I understand at least one of you is working on this already, my question is would you like to team up and do it together? I am not awfully great at programming, but I am trying to learn iOS. I have two other people I can rely on right now, as my company is just starting. But I believe this to be a really successful idea if done correctly. Let me know.

[LordBiscuit]

Since I'm only a high school graduate, I'm not that great at programming either. I've never designed anything for Smartphone.

I am, however, willing to give it a shot, if you explain the basics or give me some sort of (a not too long) guide to read

[MikeL]

I had forgotten this thread for a while, and I just thought I might check back and see if anyone else had commented, lol. Wow guys, wow.

Still wrapping my head around your rules LordBiscuit, but totally agree with the board size to 7-a-side hexagon - that makes perfect sense. My initial reaction is that it's gotten too complicated for it to be the "simple to learn, lifetime to master" type game. I like the rock-scissors-paper dynamic, but my gut feeling would be that having that as well as the flanking rules just makes it too convoluted. Maybe I just need to play the game as you've made it. I'll PM you.

[MichaelMurphree]

I will find some guides, though if you know flash, I can work that up to iOS too. I will see about getting a sound guy too. I would love to see what you have already done, if you wouldn't mind.