Eddard’s mother, aka ‘Lady Stark’

[kissdbyfire]

Interesting. Mismatched eyes, a great reader, spoke a dozen tongues, and surrounded herself with ancient scrolls. Makes me think of Tyrion. No, I'm not trying anything, just saying, really.

[Alia of the knife]

http://www.westeros....SSM/Entry/1459/

March 07, 2006

SHIERA SEASTAR

[Note: The following continues GRRM's series of descriptions of notable Targaryens (and Targaryen bastards) for Amoka.]

Lady Shiera was the natural daughter of King Aegon IV by the ninth and last of his mistresses, Lady Serenei of Lys, the last daughter of an ancient but impoverished line of Valyrian nobility. "Sweet Serenei," Aegon called her, but about his court she was considered cold and haughty, and some said that she was much older than the king, and preserved her beauty by the practice of dark arts. Considered by many the most lovely of Aegon's mistresses, Sweet Serenei died in childbed, bringing forth the last of the king's "Great Bastards," the daughter she named Shiera, Star of the Sea.

Shiera was born with one dark blue eye and one bright green one, but the singers said that this flaw only accentuated her loveliness. She was the greatest beauty of her age, a slender and elegant woman, slim of waist and full of breast. She had the silver-gold hair of the Targaryens, thick and curling, and wore it very long. At some points in her life it fell well below her waist, almost to the back of her knees. She had a heart-shaped face, full lips, and her mismatched eyes were strangely large and full of mischief; her rivals said she used them to melt men's hearts. Even at an early age, she was a great reader. She spoke a dozen tongues and surrounded herself with ancient scrolls. Like her mother, she was reputed to practice the dark arts. Though she never wed, she had many offers, and several lovers through the years. Duels were fought over the right to sit beside her, men killed themselves after falling from her favor, poets outdid each other writing songs about her beauty. Her most ardent admirer was her half-brother, Bloodraven, who proposed marriage to her half a hundred times. Shiera gave him her bed, but never her hand. It amused her more to make him jealous.

As to how to paint her... she was fond of ivory and lace and cloth-of-silver (but not gold, which she considered too vulgar). Her favorite piece of jewelry was a heavy silver necklace of emeralds and star sapphires, alternating.

Thanks for that.

( "Sweet Serenei" sounds reminiscent of the Countess of Bathory).

[King Jon Snow]

All of the talk of a Targ in the Stark bloodline got me to thinking. Aegon V had a third son that we don't really know anything about. My new crackpot theory is that this mystery son was the one that married Ned's Flint grandmother.

It was said that Egg allowed his sons to marry for love. The fact that the Targs are way above the Flints station is irrelevant. I did some rough estimates and the timeline does fit.

That would mean that Rickards wife would be a Targaryen.

One (of probably a few) holes in this theory is Ned's statement that Robert had the better claim to be king. Roberts claim came through Egg's daughter who would have come in line behind all the sons (we don't know where this mystery son lined up in the lineage). For this to work, the son would have had to be a bastard, disinherited, or living anonymously under an assumed identity for some reason.

Another problem is why nobody in the current generation of Starks have any Targ features. We do not even know who the son's mother is. She would (my guess) be from the North. The Starks and Flints are assuredly from the North.The Targ ancestor would be two or three generations removed and the Northern and Tully features would be less diluted.

The next problem that I could find was why no one would mention the ancestry. In the current timeline the Targaryens do not have a very good reputation. Nobody would want to go around boasting about having a Targ ancestry, especially since Ned help end the Targaryen reign. If the son was disinherited or living anonymously, then the lineage may none even be common knowledge.

I originally had this idea for Aerion Brightflame's mystery son, but Egg's son fit the timeline just the same and would have more connection to story.

i like this theory..and as for the better claim i think robert responds telling ned it is u who have the claim IIRC

[King Jon Snow]

I am beginning to agree with some posters that Ned has a Royal claim to the iron throne through his mother's side. I re-read the Cersei -Ned conversation when he confronts her in the King's Landing Godswood. She told him he could have taken the throne the day the Mad King had died but he replied that Robert had the better claim. The Mad King wanted both Ned and Robert's heads after the Lord Rickard/ Brandon murders. Why?Because they, not just Robert had royal claims and he was paranoid of being overthrown. We know Robert decends from Aegon V, so might Ned - Ned's mom and Robert's might have been sisters. Robert told Ned when he went to the North to name him King that they were meant to rule together. This might be the clue to Rickard's Southern ambitions. Perhaps Rickard was planning on Brandon or helping Robert move closer to the throne due to the Targ madness and betterment for the kingdom. Or simply they were greedy like most other lords and simply wanted "more".

What are your thoughts?

i think neds mother and roberts father could have been cousin

lady stark couldve ben niece to roberts granny

[The Last Reyne]

“After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy. He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her. “

And here we are. Is this ‘Lady Stark’? I think it is. Now, she begs the old gods for a son to avenge her... Avenge what? Could she have been forced into a marriage with a Stark to seal some alliance and resents it to the point of wanting to see the downfall of house Stark? I don’t think that’s it, I’m just trying to think of different possibilities. I’m really intrigued by this. What would she want to avenge? Also, clearly someone very close to the old gods.

“That’s it. Any thoughts? :dunno:

I thought the this was perhaps the daughter of the Lord of Winterfell who was seduced by a King Beyond the Wall who snuck over the wall and pretended to be a bard. He played and sang for the lord, seduced his daughter and then left her. I assumed she was perhaps bitter because he seduced her and then left her pregnant with a bastard and wanted revenge.

[King Jon Snow]

I thought the this was perhaps the daughter of the Lord of Winterfell who was seduced by a King Beyond the Wall who snuck over the wall and pretended to be a bard. He played and sang for the lord, seduced his daughter and then left her. I assumed she was perhaps bitter because he seduced her and then left her pregnant with a bastard and wanted revenge.

i thought about that but i dont think she shows up again until she has the baby

couldnt be pregnant by the tree

[The Last Reyne]

i thought about that but i dont think she shows up again until she has the baby

couldnt be pregnant by the tree

Where did she go?

[kissdbyfire]

I thought the this was perhaps the daughter of the Lord of Winterfell who was seduced by a King Beyond the Wall who snuck over the wall and pretended to be a bard. He played and sang for the lord, seduced his daughter and then left her. I assumed she was perhaps bitter because he seduced her and then left her pregnant with a bastard and wanted revenge.

It could be. But it doesn't fit if the visions are going backwards in time chronologically.

[kissdbyfire]

Where did she go?

The crypts, iirc.

[LadyKate]

I like the idea of Ned having a claim to the throne, making him related to Robert, but then this stuck out to me:

“You helped me win this damnable throne, now help me hold it. We were meant to rule together. If Lyanna had lived, we should have been brothers, bound by blood as well as affection. Well, it is not too late. I have a son. You have a daughter. My Joff and your Sansa shall join our houses, as Lyanna and I might once have done.”

"bound by blood as well as affection"-----Does this mean that they were not related and Robert's union to Lyanna (and any children they would have had) would have bound them by blood, or is he implying that they were already bound by blood, and there would have been even more affection between them?

I hope this makes sense, I'm a bit tired....

[ShadowRaven]

Perhaps the last vision is Theon dying by Stoneheart's hands?

[kittenmittens]

“After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy. He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her. “

It's Jeyne Westerling.

[Jolene Brown]

It's not - the visions are going backward in time. For it to be Jeyne, they would have to abruptly jump forward and then start going back again.

[kissdbyfire]

I like the idea of Ned having a claim to the throne, making him related to Robert, but then this stuck out to me:

"bound by blood as well as affection"-----Does this mean that they were not related and Robert's union to Lyanna (and any children they would have had) would have bound them by blood, or is he implying that they were already bound by blood, and there would have been even more affection between them?

I hope this makes sense, I'm a bit tired....

I think it means only that if Robert married Lyanna they would be bound by blood as well as affection, a bond that exists regardless.

Perhaps the last vision is Theon dying by Stoneheart's hands?

No, the visions are going backwards in time. Notice how the trees around the weirwood are growing smaller until they vanish, and even the weirwood grows smaller.

I really don't think the pregnant woman in the vision is Eddard's mother. I used to think it could be her, but I don't anymore, really. I still think the whole 'a son to avenge her' is important because, if the visions are indeed going backwards in time chronologically - and everything seems to indicate that they are - this scene happens before the upcoming events we'll see in The She-Wolves of Winterfell'. Maybe the pregnant woman is Eddard's grandmother, or even Rickard's grandmother.

[King Jonboy]

The pregnant woman could be rooses mother?

[Booknerd2]

I thought the pregnant woman was Ned's mother until I read stuff on the app.

[linesofblaschko]

I'm acknowledging right away that this is crackpot, but I was going through the AWOIAF app and noticed something I didn't remember from the books.

Torghen Flint comes to Castle Black to see Mance Rayder's execution, and asks the Watch for the Weeper, since he raped 3 Flint women. We know that Eddard's mom's mom was a Flint, so what if she was the product of a Weeper/Flint rape?

Not likely, I know, but it sort of fits!

[Lissa Nymeros Martell]

“After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy. He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her. “

And here we are. Is this ‘Lady Stark’? I think it is. Now, she begs the old gods for a son to avenge her... Avenge what? Could she have been forced into a marriage with a Stark to seal some alliance and resents it to the point of wanting to see the downfall of house Stark? I don’t think that’s it, I’m just trying to think of different possibilities. I’m really intrigued by this. What would she want to avenge? Also, clearly someone very close to the old gods.

I always thought this was Ramsay Snow's mother. After she was raped by Roose Bolton and thrown out by her husband. Never considered it could be one of the Starks.

[Nymeria's_dream]

Community Forum Software by IP.Board

"Ran knows, he only said it was surprising.

But to be fair, not even the author knew until a few years ago. "

Well it's been 8 pages and no one has suggested my theory so I'm trusting it qualifies as surprising. Instead of looking for a Targaryen under every clump of snow, let's consider who is realisticly likely to marry a Flint of the Northern mountain clans. Afterall, it doesn't sound like they make it to court much. Perhaps a neighbor? Probably not another mountain clan because Bran would likely have mentioned it. Let's take a glance at any westeros map...yep there's the mountains in the North....oh look, Bear Island. Maybe Ned's mom was a Mormont. Mormount women are known for being kind of wild, independent types, could be where Lyanna got it from...it would be surprising because depending on the age difference between relatives Ned and Jorah could be first cousins. And then there's the theory about Jeor being a potential warg, so we've got that to fit in nicely too. Also, both Flints and Mormonts have reason to feel vengeful toward the Ironborn who have a habit of harrying the shores. So if the pregnant lady in the vision were Ned's Mom, then the part Ned played in crushing Dagon's rebellion would fulfill her prayer for a son to avenge her. What do you think?

[kissdbyfire]

I always thought this was Ramsay Snow's mother. After she was raped by Roose Bolton and thrown out by her husband. Never considered it could be one of the Starks.

I think that vision is entirely about Winterfell and the Starks.