Eddard’s mother, aka ‘Lady Stark’

[King of Winters]

Ned's mother must have CotF in her. Where else would all the abilities come from?

House Reed. There's a theory that the Crannogmen have COTF blood in them and that when a past King in the North married a Crannogwoman (who was daughter of the Marsh King), after defeating the Marsh King, the COTF blood went into Stark blood as well.

[Payme]

I've always been under the impression the pregnant lady was Ned's mother. I have no clue what to make of "a son to avenge yada yada" line, but reading this thread a thought did pop up in my mind: She was pregnant with Benjen, her prayer was answered because Benjen did avenge, and that act is what led to Benjen being sent to The Wall?

Maybe that was brought up already and I missed it, as I did skip a few pages.

[three-eyed monkey]

I've always been under the impression the pregnant lady was Ned's mother. I have no clue what to make of "a son to avenge yada yada" line, but reading this thread a thought did pop up in my mind: She was pregnant with Benjen, her prayer was answered because Benjen did avenge, and that act is what led to Benjen being sent to The Wall?

Maybe that was brought up already and I missed it, as I did skip a few pages.

I like it, but why would she pray for a son to avenge her when she already had two in Brandon and Ned?

[Payme]

I like it, but why would she pray for a son to avenge her when she already had two in Brandon and Ned?

Hmm, very true. So maybe preg with Brandon, but the prayer was answered with Benjen? Heck, ya got me, ha.

[three-eyed monkey]

Hmm, very true. So maybe preg with Brandon, but the prayer was answered with Benjen? Heck, ya got me, ha.

It could be that her prayer was answered by Benjen, or maybe it will be a grandson or granddaughter like Arya or even Sansa who will avenge her, or maybe her prayer won't be answered at all. I also considered that she might have lost a parent or sibling in the War of the Ninepenny Kings of 259 AL, not long before Brandon was born, or maybe going back to the Blackfyre Rebellion, and thought of House Corbray but couldn't find room for a connection to the Flints.

Edit. House Corbray lost Ser Gwayne at the Battle of the Redgrass Field but that might be way too long for this woman to be holding a grudge.

[Rooghar Targaryen]

So Dunk & Egg are going up to Winterfell to meet the She-Wolves of Winterfell. Beron Stark is the Lord of Winterfell at the moment. Lets get the Stark Timeline in order:

-Brandon Stark is born 261 AL

-Rickard Stark is probably around the age of 15-25 when he has his first born Brandon in 261 AL that means Rickard was born around 236 - 246 AL

-Edwyle Stark is father of Rickard, assuming he was around 15-25 when he had Rickard that means Edwyle was born around 210 - 225 AL

-Beron Stark was the Lord of Winterfell in 212 AL, he might be the father of Edwyle, but there might be a shakeup in the lineage here

-Artos "the Implacable" Stark is maybe the father of Beron or much older brother, Artos becomes Lord when his brother William Stark dies in 184 AL

Lords of Winterfell

Robb Stark:

----Died in 299 AL at the Red Wedding

----Became Lord of Winterfell after his father was killed in King's Landing by King Joffrey Baratheon in 298 AL.

Eddard Stark:

----Died in 298 AL

----Became Lord of Winterfell after his father and older brother, Brandon Stark, were killed in King's Landing by King Aerys II in 282 AL.

Rickard Stark:

----Died in 282 AL

----He had no brothers or sisters

----He had Brandon within 2 years after the War of the Ninepenny Kings, which he participated in because all Warden titles were activated

----Rickard might have met his future wife or made an alliance betrothal down South planning for the Ninepenny battles, or not...

----Rickard's wife is referred to as "Lady Stark." Lady Stark's Mother was from House Flint in the Mountains. Lady Stark's Father is a mystery.

----Lady Stark might be the pregnant woman who emerges from the pool in Bran's vision. She asks the Old Gods for a son that would avenge her.

----If Lady Stark is the chick coming out of the pool and she is pregnant with her first son Brandon the time is 260-261 AL

----Lady Stark lived at least til when Benjen was born, which is a mystery but probably around 268-271 AL

----Lady Stark is dead. Grrm said "Her name is Lady Stark and she died." Maybe she died in childbirth with Benjen? Her death is a mystery

Edwyle Stark:

----He had at least one sister that married into the Royce cadet branch

----He had one brother that died young, summer fever age 3, might be the infant that needed Old Nan the wetnurse, the Stark child that she nursed died young.

----We do not know anything about his wife

----We do not know how he died, but it might have been fairly young if he only had one child

Beron Stark:

----He was Lord of Wintefell during the raids of Dagon Greyjoy, he gathered knights to push the Greyjoy back into the sea. Around 211-212 AL

----Assuming there were no Heirs in Winterfell while Beron was out battling Greyjoys, Winterfell was ruled by the 5 She-Wolves

----Beron gets severly injured fighting Greyjoys, a question comes who should succeed him 213 AL, he is appparently 30 something years old

----Assume one of the She-Wolves was Beron's wife soon to be widow

----Assume one of the She-Wolves was Artos Stark's widow

----Assume one of the She-Wolves was William Stark's widow

----Maybe one of the She-Wolves is Cregan Stark's widow.

----Maybe one of the She-Wolves is the widow of an unnamed Lord Stark that died during the Skagos Rebellion

"Killed in Skagos Rebellion" Stark?:

----A Stark Lord died during the Skagos Rebellion. Skagos Rebellion approximately 198 AL. (100 years ago from the start of GOT)

Artos "The Implacable" Stark:

----Was Artos the "Stark Lord" that died during the Skagos Rebellion?

----Brother of Lord William Stark, began rule 184 AL

----Artos became Lord of Winterfell after William died at Batlle of Long Lake.

William Stark:

----Killed in Battle of Long Lake against a wildling named Raymun Redbeard 184 AL

Cregan Stark?:

----Aemon the Dragonknight once fought him and said he was the best swordsman he ever fought. (Aemon died around 183 AL)

PS. "Old" Nan is supposed to be around 100 a the start of Game of Thrones. That puts her being born around 198 AL and about 15 years old when Dunk and Egg will possibly arrive in Winterfell for their next adventure. She is Hodor's Great Grandmother. Which follows the timeline very nice of Hodor's unnamed "grandparent" being born around the time Edwyle Stark was born and Hodor's "Mother/Father" being born around the same time as Rickard Stark and Hodor being born around the same time as Brandon or Eddard Stark. Definitely not saying Hodor is of the Stark blood, just using their timeline to show Nan as Great-grandparent works out in book time. Also, Hodor's real name is Walder.

[Luthien Targaryen]

My money's on Mrs Stark's father being a Wildling raider who'd come across the wall and stolen a Flint girl from her clan. Either the Flint girl escaped or her daughter escaped. Perhaps she held some special place in the clan because of her bravery, or perhaps she had greensight/wargy/first men/ children of the forest skills inherited from her wildling father. Perhaps Rickard Stark had rescued her in his youth while visiting folk near the Wall, or even visiting the Night's Watch, and had fallen in love with her. Erm, speaking of Flint girls and Nights Watch...do we know when Brave Dany Flint was alive? Maybe the pregnant lady in the pool is Ms Flint, who wants revenge for being kidnapped and raped by some wildling (not that i've got anything against wildlings in general, that Tormund's a lovely fellow and i'm quite fond of Mance Rayder). Just a thought....

[three-eyed monkey]

So in summary.

Flint woman, Ned's maternal grandmother, marries unnamed Lord Hornwood, Ned's maternal grandfather. They have at least two children, a boy and a girl, before Lord Hornwood is killed in a dispute with the Starks, for which the holdfast is seized. The male child becomes Lord Hornwood, Halys Hornwood's father. The female child is married to Rickard Stark, who was probably not the Lord of Winterfell yet, and becomes Ned's mother. Confused?

Wrong!!! (Sorry Three-eyed Monkey :bang: ) Just looking through the SSM last night and when asked if Ned had any aunts or uncles GRRM said, "No."

We know Lord Rickard had no siblings but the same must be true of Ned's mother too. Hmmm. So if I'm not mistaken then Ned's maternal grandfather's house must be extinct as his progeny through his only daughter, Ned's mother, were all Starks.

Edit: wrong again. The house may have continued through Ned's grandfathers siblings. :bang: :bang:

[Lissa Nymeros Martell]

My money's on Mrs Stark's father being a Wildling raider who'd come across the wall and stolen a Flint girl from her clan. Either the Flint girl escaped or her daughter escaped. Perhaps she held some special place in the clan because of her bravery, or perhaps she had greensight/wargy/first men/ children of the forest skills inherited from her wildling father. Perhaps Rickard Stark had rescued her in his youth while visiting folk near the Wall, or even visiting the Night's Watch, and had fallen in love with her. Erm, speaking of Flint girls and Nights Watch...do we know when Brave Dany Flint was alive? Maybe the pregnant lady in the pool is Ms Flint, who wants revenge for being kidnapped and raped by some wildling (not that i've got anything against wildlings in general, that Tormund's a lovely fellow and i'm quite fond of Mance Rayder). Just a thought....

The Starks are high-born it's highly unlikely one would marry a wilding's bastard... but i guess if she were really hot.

[honeyed chicken]

I love that this thread has 25,000+ views.

Kudos to three-eyed monkey and Luthien Tragaryen for their work on this.

[SimonSez]

Arya Mormont, as Eddard's mother. That my theory, and I'm sticking to it.

[tormund's beard]

Arya Mormont, as Eddard's mother. That my theory, and I'm sticking to it.

sister to the old bear ? i think not. "your uncle is first ranger your grandma's brother lord commander"

[Lady Flandrensis]

House Reed. There's a theory that the Crannogmen have COTF blood in them and that when a past King in the North married a Crannogwoman (who was daughter of the Marsh King), after defeating the Marsh King, the COTF blood went into Stark blood as well.

This would rock. I hope this is true.

[honeyed chicken]

This would rock. I hope this is true.

I came across this in Bran 7 of aGoT, p.737 near the bottom:

"They lived in the depths of the wood, in caves and crannogs and secret tree towns. Slight as they were, the children were quick and graceful. Male and female hunted together, with their weirwood bows and flying snares. . .their wisemen were called greenseers . . ."

Sure sounds like Jojen and Meera to me.

[SimonSez]

sister to the old bear ? i think not. "your uncle is first ranger your grandma's brother lord commander"

My thinking is that as far as we know, as the Stark children's lineage goes, their family consists only of houses with animal sigils. On Catelyn's side, the bats of House Whents and the Trout of Tully and from Eddard's father, all wolves, since the Flint clan doesn't have a banner.

So the person who suggested House Reed earlier, which has a lizard as sigil, is a good possibility.

[Aetta]

I am beginning to agree with some posters that Ned has a Royal claim to the iron throne through his mother's side. I re-read the Cersei -Ned conversation when he confronts her in the King's Landing Godswood. She told him he could have taken the throne the day the Mad King had died but he replied that Robert had the better claim. The Mad King wanted both Ned and Robert's heads after the Lord Rickard/ Brandon murders. Why?Because they, not just Robert had royal claims and he was paranoid of being overthrown. We know Robert decends from Aegon V, so might Ned - Ned's mom and Robert's might have been sisters. Robert told Ned when he went to the North to name him King that they were meant to rule together. This might be the clue to Rickard's Southern ambitions. Perhaps Rickard was planning on Brandon or helping Robert move closer to the throne due to the Targ madness and betterment for the kingdom. Or simply they were greedy like most other lords and simply wanted "more".

What are your thoughts?

Makes me wonder about the moment Rhaegar marked Lyanna at the tourney, and how it would have been perceived by the Martells, Starks and Aerys, under the circumstances you lay out. Regardless of R & L's actual relationship, this one moment under those circumstances would take on another level of Game playing, political intrigue.

[Artur Nowosielski]

Neds mom is Old Nan.

It is known.

[complexphoenix]

All we know of Lady Stark is that her mother was a Flint of the mountains and she died sometime after giving birth to Benjen but before Robert's Rebellion. If her mother was a Flint, she herself was presumably born in the North. There is no mention of any of Robb's bannermen being his cousins. Maybe Lady Stark's birth family were a minor house that died out? I don't buy the Skagos theory, since the Skagosi have had very little contact with the mainland since their rebellion was put down 100 years ago.

GRRM himself doesn't seem to have put any thought into Ned's mother. If he had, he would have written it in. He chose to make her irrelevant, it seems to me. Whether that was a deliberate choice or simply an oversight, trying to theorize about her is pointless. If her origin were going to be important, her heritage would have been spelled out in the text long ago.

We don't know anything about Tywin's mother or Hoster Tully's mother or Jon Arryn's mother or Doran's father, because GRRM hasn't chosen to make them relevant. Eddard's mother is more recent than most omissions, but she's still omitted. Best to just accept that and move on to more interesting topics.

[Kienn]

GRRM himself doesn't seem to have put any thought into Ned's mother. If he had, he would have written it in. He chose to make her irrelevant, it seems to me. Whether that was a deliberate choice or simply an oversight, trying to theorize about her is pointless. If her origin were going to be important, her heritage would have been spelled out in the text long ago.

I think you have this entirely backwards. He throws away meaningless details like nothing, he holds on to important details for a long time.

[Fat Trell]

I always thought it was pretty clear Ned's mother was from Skagos. It would explain why no house already mentioned in passing is stated to be Ned's mother's house. Skagosi nobles seem like they would be of the same social rank as the mountain clans, which explains that marriage.

Its mentioned that Skagos rose in rebellion about a hundred years ago. Timeline wise, its a bit of a stretch to say Rickard's marriage could have ended that rebellion. Maybe it was a scenario in which Rickard's Great-Grandfather was obviously dead, his Grandfather already married, his Father was already betrothed, and Rickard was set forth as a prospective spouse to a Skagosi noble's prospective granddaughter? Or maybe it was just an attempt to better bind the North together to avoid future rebellions.

If it turns out that Ned had a royal claim through his mother and no one, not one single POV notes this, then I'll be pretty disappointed in GRRM. There's a difference in concealing a few minute details that we as a fanbase can connect into bigger theories and having scores of character's ignore something that would be a huge deal in-universe.