How big is too big? ...well it was THIS BIG. update pg 13!

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

quirksome,

She's had ten years it still looks nice. But she is careful to remove it if she is doing something more vigerous that may damage it.

[Verboten]

My mother has an opal engagement ring. They were both poor students when they got engaged and mum loves opals so that's what dad got for her. Sometimes non-traditional rings have sentimental and financial reasons behind them. It's quite beautiful.

[TerraPrime]

Hmmmm. What do people think about non-matching rings? I would like yellow gold, but Mr Q would like platinum/white gold. Those colours also suit our respective skin tones better. Is yellow gold seen as too old-fashioned? (Yes I care about what others think. I probably shouldn't. Whatever.)

My partner and I have the same design, but different metal. Mine is white gold, and his is regular gold. The design is a simple band with matted center. Neither of us really like the look of stones on our hands, so we went with plain metal bands. It was affordable (cheap) to acquire the pair - the two rings costed roughly $700. I would like to upgrade later on to a nicer ring, probably something with more design to it, but no stones.

ETA

Funny story.

I was the one who proposed so I went ring shopping. In one store, when I asked to see wedding bands for guys, the sales person was very confused when she asked for my ring size and I said, no, the ring is not for me.

[Tempra]

No, legally (in the US at least), an engagement ring is a gift.

Who gets to keep the engagement if there is no marriage depends on state law. The majority view is that an engagement ring legally belongs to the person proposing marriage UNTIL marriage, then it belongs to the recipient.

Here is some more info: http://articles.cnn.com/2008-01-07/living/diamond.not.forever_1_ring-family-law-engagement?_s=PM:LIVING

[Tears of Lys]

IIRC, according to English custom (or law? Hereward care to chip in?) if a chap proposes to a gal with a new ring and she accepts, then either party breaks it off, then she gets to keep the ring. Possibly it's compensation for not getting married? But if it's a family ring of great heritage (can't remember exact wording) then I think the guy could reclaim it even if he broke it off. Seemed like a way for aristos to go around breaking troths but hey it's a good story.

Yeah, I'm not claiming there's any etiquette rule or something about this. All my posts should (usually) be read with an automatically understood "IMO" :)

ETA: And then I see Tempra's posted a link to state laws. Who knew? :dunno:

[Howdyphillip]

Bad form on the part of your fiancees. Unless YOU were the one who broke them off, leaving the poor dears with their wedding plans in shambles and banquet hall deposits unrefundable.

I've never understood why women would want to keep a ring from a failed relationship. Okay, maybe if the guy took you to the cleaners and that's the only way you could get back at him.

To be fair, the first two I considered gifts as I was the one who left the relationship. I did so far before wedding plans had been made and money spent on them though.

The last one is the one that really got me. I flew home back to Texas from Florida to take care of my Mother who was going through Chemo therapy for the month, and the X decided to use that time to sleep with a friend. I never saw her again, and she kept the ring, and a house full of everything that I owned. I also wound up having to sell my house there and lost a ton of money in the sale.

For one-third of retail.?

That is another thing.... NEVER pay retail for a ring... There are all sorts of inventive ways to acquire one that doesn't mean you have to get screwed... I personally bought all of them through wholesalers...

[quirksome]

Tempra that's a great link!

Law trumps etiquette

Engagement rings fall under property, contract or family law, and how they are treated varies by state.

In California, it depends on who broke the engagement. For example, if the person who received the ring is the one who is reneging on the engagement, then that person must relinquish the jewelry. (Edit: this seems fair to me)

In New York, North Carolina, Minnesota, Tennessee and other states, appellate courts say engagement rings are conditional gifts that must be returned to the gift giver if the condition -- namely, the marriage -- does not take place, regardless of who broke off the engagement. (What, back to dowries again? Bit transactional methinks)

Kansas and Montana say a gift, once given, cannot be taken back. (Isn't this true for all gifts?)

Oklahoma has no cases on file governing engagement rings, so guidance would have to be drawn from nearby states. Texas, she says, takes circumstances into account. (Wow, rationality!)

Who gets the ring also depends on when it is given. Most courts have found that giving an engagement ring on a birthday or a holiday, such as Christmas or Valentine's Day, makes the ring a simple gift. (Aha - loophole for gold-diggers!)

But many people go with what feels right. Conventional wisdom has it that a woman should return the ring if she cancels the wedding, but keep it if her fiancé makes the break. Etiquette maven Emily Post (and Chats) say a ring always should be returned when the engagement is broken.

[quirksome]

I'd just find a decent antique jeweller's and go try some on. The better places should be really happy to help you find a ring that suits you and your needs. If you are anywhere near Brighton then give Fidra a go (OK, my mate is the manager), I've often seen them pull out a whole range of stock for customers to try out, with nice comfy chairs and everything, and I imagine lots of other places do similar.

OMG Min these are exactly what I was looking for! (And much cheaper than London too!) Any other recs? What's your friend's name? Can I mention you? PM please!

So...shiny.... but so damn expensive! :tantrum:

I wish they'd show the gold weight and diamond clarity/colour though, it's really hard to compare prices with other sites. Maybe I'll drag Mr Q down to Brighton for a seaside and shopping jaunt... :devil:

[Guest Raidne]

That is another thing.... NEVER pay retail for a ring... There are all sorts of inventive ways to acquire one that doesn't mean you have to get screwed... I personally bought all of them through wholesalers...

Ummm...no. Not at the prices you paid. If the 1 carat solitaire was a round cut, D-E color, VVS1-2, and a very good or better cut, you got a great deal, but you didn't pay anywhere near wholesale.

The wholesalers pay wholesale. You pay a marked up price from what they bought it for, by definition. And what is that called? The marked-up price that you pay for something you buy from someone who paid wholesale? Right. Retail.

You can get a good price from Blue Nile, etc., but you can get the same price out of your local jeweler if you bargain. It's just like buying cars people.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

As long as we're on the subject, I personally think memorial diamonds are about the coolest thing ever. Hey, I'm going to reset grandma into a pendant - what do you think?

I think they're really cool, and a more-appealing-to-me way of keeping around a physical reminder of a loved one than the traditional urn/ashes. Everyone I've spoken to thinks they're creepy and/or bizarre, though.

But then I also think this display of greatness is kind of awesome, so that should give you an idea of where I sit on these things.

[Jaxom 1974]

An engagment ring being a gift for Federal Income Tax purposes is much different than the state by state laws on who keeps the ring if the engagement is broken. I should have been clearer...but know that gift tax is owed over the limit, because from the IRS perpective, it's a gift, given immediately.

Which should be a consideration for any ring in the US over what is it now, $12k? I haven't kept up, since I quit doing tax.

Regardless, Miss Manners says that the ring should be returned (as does E. Post, in your linked article), despite what the state law may be.

If only you got the gift tax money back from the IRS too...

And what if you get said ring back and (and I know this is bad form in general) give it to another woman in a new engagement. Are you paying gift tax again?

[Howdyphillip]

Ummm...no. Not at the prices you paid. If the 1 carat solitaire was a round cut, D-E color, VVS1-2, and a very good or better cut, you got a great deal, but you didn't pay anywhere near wholesale.

The wholesalers pay wholesale. You pay a marked up price from what they bought it for, by definition. And what is that called? The marked-up price that you pay for something you buy from someone who paid wholesale? Right. Retail.

You can get a good price from Blue Nile, etc., but you can get the same price out of your local jeweler if you bargain. It's just like buying cars people.

I bought mine from relatives in Israel... I do not remember the exact cut and quality, but I remember paying half of a comparable purchase at Zales. The one thing that I had to keep in mind about this was that there is no return policies this way.

[MinDonner]

What's your friend's name? Can I mention you? PM please!

PMs all down, but this is not exactly sekrit information... my friend's name is Pippa (she's the statuesque blonde, works most days and certainly weekends) and my real name is Susi if you fancy name-dropping :) . As for other recs, I have none specifically, but that part of Brighton is absolutely chocka with jewellers of all types, I'd imagine they're all pretty competitive with each other so that's bound to keep the prices down a bit, and you'll have a very wide choice.

[Whitestripe]

No offense, I like you. I do. But this kind of smugness annoys the piss out of me. Guess what? People look at everything about you all the time and make a judgment. You, and everyone else posting stuff like this, are also making judgments about people based on what they say, talk about, etc. One of those many factors may be the kind of engagement ring someone has. It's no different than saying you tell a lot about a man by his shoes. So, for instance, if I know a couple who was nearly destitute, but she's walking around with a $25K ring on, I'd judge them the same way that Chats has that hard-on for maligning lovers of flat screen TVs and granite countertops. From this thread, every time I look at someone with a non-traditional engagement ring, I will note that it's correlated with being really judgmental about people who made a different choice, like the South Park episode about the Prius. Yes, your ass emits a wonderful bouquet. Or is that aroma? I'm sure you can tell me.

Raidne: Did you bother to read my follow up post before attacking me? It's #35. I'll quote it in case you missed it

And I realized after I posted that I should have added that if you want a big ring and you can afford a big ring then, go for it. I am sure that my parents think that we are the most frivolous people in the universe for putting a hot tub in the back yard last year. Thing is, we've wanted it for years and we could afford it, so we did it.

How could I possibly be smug about not having a diamond when I just told you that there was no money to buy a diamond when I got engaged. I did get a ring. It was a garnet from a big chain jeweler that cost I think $150. It's mangled and bent, and I can't wear it anymore. One of these days I may have it reset. Maybe I won't.

As far as judging people, I actually don't give a flying fsck about anyone's engagement ring, shoes, car, house, zip code, clothes whatever. Does not matter to me one iota. I try not to judge people by appearances, really I do. I am much more likely to pass judgment on a person based on the grammar of their email than what brand of jeans they are wearing (if I could even tell what brand they had on in the first place).

As far as people judging me.... well, if people are going to judge me based on my jewelry, clothes, shoes, house, car, zip code, whatever, I really would prefer NOT to know them. I do realize that your outward appearance is a projection of who you are, and to that end I try to be neat and clean, well mannered and well spoken. Other than that, if someone doesn't want to be my friend because I happen to be wearing a sweater from Target along with my Boden skirt and Clarks shoes, then I really don't want to be their friend, either.

[Iskaral Pust]

I hate the engagement ring BS. The deck is stacked against guys. I think most women resist the brainwashing attempts about diamonds, but it's hard for them to ignore the competitive associations. Female competition is very inadequately discussed/exposed in mainstream culture, instead it is fanned and exploited by marketing juggernauts.

So I caved and bought a 1 carat solitaire for ~$5k. That was a large expenditure while we were young and relatively poor. Our entire wedding cost $25k to put it in perspective. I went for a 1 carat that scored very highly on the 4c's and was/is very sparkly. A 1.5 carat is overwhelming on my wife's hands, and 2 carats would be clown-shoes (great phrase Monday).

Of course, that same stone would cost a lot more today. Jewelry inflation is criminal. Even without the stupid gold bugs, the diamond cartel manages supply very tightly to push up prices, but they must be very good at bribing the anti-trust regulators.

At least now there is better access to jewelry wholesalers and on-line retailers. Anyone who pays retail at a mall jeweler is crazy. (I could find a wholesaler even then)

[IheartTesla]

Yet another industry with artificially inflated prices that have little relation to functionality of an item.

[kairparavel]

I am prettyvery judgemental, and would roll my eyes at something garish and look at me blingy. But you know what I wouldn't do? Smugly feel sorry for someone who was blissfully unaware at how flawed her diamond was as she prepares for her exciting new married life. People should be feeling sorry for me, if that was the case.

I have a simple hand-crafted band set with a 0.33 carat diamond that I was rather happy with, from Engagement 1.0. I wanted a ring but I didn't want to tie up gobs of money in it. Turns out it was money well not spent. This time around throwing a reception seemed a better use of money. I have a very simple white gold band with engraved edges that I wear. If we upgrade, we upgrade. If not, that is ok too.

[Daenerys Stormborn]

With diamonds i think any solitar over 2cts looks a bit flashy, but if youre going with a different gem i think size isnt a factor. I also second the previous statements of quality over quantity and taking the size of your hands into account with ct size.

My mother has an opal engagement ring. They were both poor students when they got engaged and mum loves opals so that's what dad got for her. Sometimes non-traditional rings have sentimental and financial reasons behind them. It's quite beautiful.

I too went the route of non-traditional, i've never been fond diamonds. I thought my mother and MIL we're going to have strokes over snubbing tradition (us being only children, we were their only shabang). I think my garnet is about 5cts, octogon cut, in a custom platinum setting (which is valued more then the gem). I get tons of comments on picking something so unique and personal. If you like the idea of designing your own ring and making it yours alone I'd recommend checking out some locally owned jewelry stores for examples of custom work, that's what we did.

[Iskaral Pust]

Yet another industry with artificially inflated prices that have little relation to functionality of an item.

We utilitarians find this world confusing and illogical, but you always have the choice not to buy the diamond/McMansion/dodgy financial security.

The inflated prices only stay inflated because enough people are paying them. Price inflation in necessities is a grave public concern. Price inflation in frivolities is self-inflicted.

[Whitestripe]

One final thought on jewel size, I honestly don't even know what a 1 ct stone looks like. Is it common knowledge? Did I miss some jewelery gene?