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What Country Does Each Kingdom Represent Historically?


I.Know.Nothing

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Said by an Englishman, who hate the French and basically anyone else who doesn't bow to that 300 year old queen of yours. Very hippocritical.

Scottish my friend, and trust me we know about not getting on with our neighbours.

And to the point Spain and France have had several wars throughout history dating back to the fifteenth century. They may get along now but when you look at medieval times (which is relevant to the books) then there was no love lost between the peoples.

And I quite like the French to be honest.

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Actually they did - the Scoti was the name given by the Romans to raiding pirates and slavers from Ireland. They later went on to invade northern Britain ....

And, of course, most famously, on one slaving raid into northern Britain (somewhere in Ystrad Clud, probably) they captured a young Briton name of Patrick. Saint to be ....

And the Vikings did later themselves establish settlements in Ireland - they founded Dublin.

But I agree, the Iron Isles is more closely akin to the 'traditional' Scandinavian Vikings -

good points. I always saw the Iron Islands as a mix of Ireland and Vikings. Rebellious islands off the west coast with a different religon to their conquerors. Also there was an Irish female pirate Grace O'Malley who Asha could represent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_O%27Malley

I agree with Dorne as Spain with the Moorish element.

Ghis is Carthage.

Valyria is Ancient Rome

Qarth is Damascus or Bagdad.

Free Cities are Italian city states.

Bravos being Venice.

The Reach is civalric France with elements of the Neterlands.

The Vale is Wales with its troublesome hill tribes.

The North is northern England / Scotland.

The First Men are celts, the Andals are Anglo Saxons.

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This is something that I have been wondering since getting into ASOIAF. Martin must have modeled them after some sort of culture in history. Here are my guesses for some of them:

The North=Saxon

Westerlands=Germany

Iron Islands=Vikings(Martin said that himself)

Dorne=Mediterranean

The Riverlands=England

Free Cities=Persia

The Vale=Scandinavian

Any other ideas?

The vikings comes from the area of Scandiavia which. Are you saying the Vale has the same culture as the Iron islands? :)

I think the most likely areas is:

The North = Scotland

The Vale = Habsburg (Austria)

The Riverlands = The lowlands (Neterlands and Belgium)

The Iron islands = Scandinavia

The Reach = France

The Stormlands = Germany

The Westerlands = Northern Italy

Dorne = Andalusia (Araba hispanic)

Volantis is the daughter of Valyria = Constatinople is the daughter of Rome

The walls of Quarth = Walls of Babylon

Slavers bay = Egypt

Old Ghis = Carthage

Bravos = Venice

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And to the point Spain and France have had several wars throughout history dating back to the fifteenth century. They may get along now but when you look at medieval times (which is relevant to the books) then there was no love lost between the peoples.

And I quite like the French to be honest.

Actually, france and spain did not have any major wars before 1492, it was only after france invaded naples when we really did oppose them. We even helped them destroying the english fleet at la rochelle.

Ps. I have seen a lot of people compare spain to dorne because of 711, but even after 700 years of occupation, a great percentage of the population in al andalus was still christian (they were called mozarabes), and assuming that all spaniards are hot-blooded is grossly stereotyping the country, a bit like saying that all scottish people just care about their money. And by the way, commenting on wars on the fifteenth century does not exactly cover the other 90% of the middle ages

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Wasn't that desert-ish back then, actually ancient Rome got a lot of corn from Northern Africa.

Stormlands: Baltic States (?)

Definetly not. Baltic states gone from tribal to very fast developed and vast pre feudal empire (the grand duchy of Lithuania) to union with Poland, so not really any parallels

Northern Free Cities: Russia(?)

again not really, although their partially submissive relation with Dorthaki is somewhat similar to relations between parts of medieval Rus to Mngol tribes

For some reason I didn't see the 10 pages of text and replied for a post from page one sorry :bang:

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North - Russia, Scotland (cold, vast (not Scotland), tough to beat)


Iron Islands - Scandanavia, Viking kingdoms (hawoooo!!!)


Riverlands - Belgium, and the low countries (Netherlands) (no brainer)


Westerlands - Switzerland (gold supply), England - (Casterly rock reminds me of the rocky shores in the south and the house colors are same)


The Reach - France (green, flowers, bountifull)


Dorne - Spain, Turks under Saladin, Moorish Morrocco and Spain (exotic, arrid and resiliant)


Stormlands - Germany (forrests, ferocious, strong and full of game)


The Vale - Italy, Switzerland and Austria (the Alps,alpine with gorgeous meadows)


other - Essos reminds me of Asia and Valaryia, or whats left of it reminds me on the map of Greece


Dothraki - Huns, Monguls, the worst of the worst


Ancient Valaryian Freehold/Empire - Egyptians, Babylonians, Persians who wer finally conquered under the banner of Alexander all to have it


collapse overnight and fracture suddenly.


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  • 2 weeks later...

The North - Scotland, Ireland: weaker feudal structures, lack of airs and graces, penchant for doomed rebellions, and the obvious link between Celtic religion/druids and the Old Gods/greenseers.


The Riverlands - The Low Countries: where wars are fought.


The Vale - Austria, the Old Swiss Confederacy: Jon Arryn's plotting with royal marriages before Robert's Rebellion, neutrality in the War of the Five Kings, Alpine geography.


The Westerlands - England: house colours and heraldry, power hungry, perfidious, money worshipping.


The Reach - France: beautiful/fertile countryside, highly populated, most powerful individual country, most gilded noble culture.


The Stormlands - Germany/Prussia: militarily adept, tendancy for in-house fighting, rapid rise from weaker kingdom to the strongest and just as rapid a descent.


The Crownlands - German Rhineland: individually weak, but the surrounding kingdoms fought over it for centuries (pre-Targaryens), especially the Vale (Austria) and the Stormlands (Prussia)


Dorne - Spain/Iberia: most culturally and ethnically mixed of Westeros, with aspects of the First Men (Celts), Andals (Vandals, Visigoths) and Rhoynish (Moors), separated from the rest of the continent by the Red Mountains (Pyrenees).


The Iron Islands - Scandinavia/The Vikings: raiding culture, ability to cause a lot more trouble than their low populations would suggest.


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The North - Scotland, Ireland: weaker feudal structures, lack of airs and graces, penchant for doomed rebellions, and the obvious link between Celtic religion/druids and the Old Gods/greenseers.

The Riverlands - The Low Countries: where wars are fought.

The Vale - Austria, the Old Swiss Confederacy: Jon Arryn's plotting with royal marriages before Robert's Rebellion, neutrality in the War of the Five Kings, Alpine geography.

The Westerlands - England: house colours and heraldry, power hungry, perfidious, money worshipping.

The Reach - France: beautiful/fertile countryside, highly populated, most powerful individual country, most gilded noble culture.

The Stormlands - Germany/Prussia: militarily adept, tendancy for in-house fighting, rapid rise from weaker kingdom to the strongest and just as rapid a descent.

The Crownlands - German Rhineland: individually weak, but the surrounding kingdoms fought over it for centuries (pre-Targaryens), especially the Vale (Austria) and the Stormlands (Prussia)

Dorne - Spain/Iberia: most culturally and ethnically mixed of Westeros, with aspects of the First Men (Celts), Andals (Vandals, Visigoths) and Rhoynish (Moors), separated from the rest of the continent by the Red Mountains (Pyrenees).

The Iron Islands - Scandinavia/The Vikings: raiding culture, ability to cause a lot more trouble than their low populations would suggest.

Oh I think you nailed it. I retract my earlier comment. :P

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The North: culturally like Scotland & N England (w/ Yorkshire accents) & Celts & Saxons (relatively untouched by Andal [Norman] culture; geographically like Russia


White Harbor: Hanseatic trade city


Wildlings: geographically like Siberia & culturally somewhat as well, though no reindeer; bride-kidnapping I think comes from the Caucasus


Iron Islands: Viking controlled islands off the coast of Scotland & Ireland


Riverlands: mixture of Ireland (conquered by Vikings; red hair; names like Brynden [brendan] & Catelyn [Caitlin] & Tully), Rhineland (geography) & Low Countries (geography; "cockpit of Europe")


Westerlands: culturally like Norman/Plantagenet England (Tywin as Edward I), economically like medieval Germany w/ its hilly terrain full of precious metals


Reach: France, duh


Vale: Alps/Scotland/Wales


Stormlands: stormy and thickly forested like Germany


Dorne: Greenblood is like the Nile or Jordan; equal primogeniture is Basque; gender equality is Pharaonic Egypt & Spain under Queen Urraca; spicy food and red mountains and poisonous snakes & scorpions are N Mexico/US Southwest



Braavos: Venice/Amsterdam, as everyone knows


Norvos: I think Siena: city that produces fine tapestries in countryside of rolling hills, terraced farms & small walled villages (Tuscany)


Qohor: Rus or Novgorod (high latitude; surrounded by forest)


Pentos & Tyrosh seem like they could be Genoa (lots of wealth but not much culture)


Lys isn't based on any real city, it's just one big brothel


Volantis: Constantinople (huge; heir to Rome [Valyria]; massive slave trade



Slaver's Bay has many influences: Carthage & the Barbary corsairs; the cities around the Black sea that sold Slavs "harvested" from the steppe by Crimean Tatars (Dothraki); Assyrians & Babylonians; touch of Aztecs; part of W Africa used to be called the "slave coast"



Basilisk Isles could be Zanzibar, an island which traded slaves captured from E Africa (Sothoryos)



Summer Isles: Caribbean/Polynesia



Qarth: Babylon/Alexandria



Dothraki: Mongols/Comanche/Tatars

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  • 2 weeks later...
Maybe a bit late, but I'd like to comment. I think it is very hard to place these things as it's probably many rolled into one new one, but here I go:


Westeros:


The North - Anglo-Saxons - England pre Viking invasion,

The Riverlands - Low countries, especially the Netherlands (Netherlands is renown for farming and rivers),

Iron Islands - Viking people - Iceland landscape (not Scandinavia as it is in land and very fertile, unlike the Iron Islands),

The Vale - Scotland - Clans, mountains, etc,

The Westerlands - Britain (noble, powerful, richest country in the world in the past),

The Reach - France - fertility, open-mindedness (open backed dresses, acknowledge homosexuality), courtesies, etc,

The Stormlands - Prussia (forests and weather)

Dorne - Morocco (has a monarchy, flamboyant), and Iberian Peninsula - people think Dorne is Spain, however it is NOT. Dorne is made up of deserts and Spain is not, it has sand on beaches but not in land. The people are also very different culturally. Culture (food, clothes, etc) and gender equality is also similar to Egypt, Mexico and other places.


Essos, Sothoryos, other continents and Isles:


Summer Isles - Madagascar and Caribbean,

Braavos - Venice/Amsterdam (canals and bridges of Venice, weather of Amsterdam),

Lorath - Cicily (related in a sense of economic insignificance in comparison to other cities),

Pentos - Athens (architecture and clothing, etc), possibly Genoa

Tyrosh - Milan (very fashionable and also ancient), possibly Genoa

Myr - Belgium (known for lace),

Lys - Switzerland (known for perfuming and curling hair, however not so much poisons as Lys is),

Volantis - Rome (People say Valyria is Rome as the Holy Roman Empire fell, however Rome still stands and Valyria does not and Volantis held together the Free Cities after the Doom),

Qohor - Slovakia or Novgorod,

Norvos - Bucharest or Tuscany,

Valyria - Pompeii (Pompeii is famous for Mount Vesuvius which erupted and destroyed it, and plus it relates to the Holy Roman Empire which is what the Valyrian Empire is supposedly based upon),

Slaver's Bay - Ancient Egypt, Carthage and the Barbary corsairs, etc (The Ghiscari Empire is based on Egypt somewhat, however Egypt did not have an Empire, but did have rival empires and did fall to the Holy Roman Empire, plus they both have similar cultures such as clothing and use of pyramids),

Dothraki - Mongolian and Native American tribes,

Qarth - maybe Constantinople or Alexandria.

Ib - Inuits in Alaska and Canada (similar weather and whaling activities),

Yi Ti - Vietnam (dense jungles and similar culture),

Asshai - China and Nepal (assumed only as these places seem to be close to Asshai due to the sorcery from Asshai which can relate to these and also the red of China can relate somewhat to R'hllor),

Sothoryos - Africa (jungles, plagues, unexplored, unique animals),

Ulthos - Brazil (Amazon), or possibly Papua New Guinea (all that is known of Ulthos is jungles, rainforests, etc).


These are just my opinion, if they do not seem realistic please say so and give reasons so I can change my mind.

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Eh, some parts of Scandinavia like Denmark and southern Sweden, sure. I dare you to go to Norway and claim it's "very fertile", however.

No I didn't mean it like that. Norway is mainly fertile, I know it has Fjords and mountains that prevents this, but you can grow and harvest food their, and the Iron Islands are known to be infertile.

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No I didn't mean it like that. Norway is mainly fertile, I know it has Fjords and mountains that prevents this, but you can grow and harvest food their, and the Iron Islands are known to be infertile.

No, the Iron Islands are not infertile. Theon makes it perfectly clear that the Ironborn do farm, contrary to popular belief around these boards. It's just that the soil is thin and not very fertile, much like the soil in Norway.

As for "mainly fertile", you're just dead wrong. The total amount of land used for farming in Norway is 3 %. Yes, that's right. Not 30, not 13, but 3. It might have been slightly higher in the middle ages, but still, it's only a minute fraction of the entire land mass that is even remotely viable for subsistence farming.

If anything, the Iron Islands are MORE fertile than Norway, as they generally have a better climate.

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North: Anglo-Saxon



Riverlands: Germany



Reach: France (pretty obviously)



Vale: Scotland



Dorne: Spain



Westerlands: USA (get it? West.)



Iron Isles: Vikings (duh)



Stormlands:...(I don't think Martin spent as much time on the Stormlands.) Maybe Eastern European.



Crownlands/7 Kingdoms: Roman Empire



Braavos: Italy



Lys: Amsterdam (for sure!)



Dornish Marches/Red mountains of Dorne: Pyrenees Mountains



The Eyrie/Whatever Mountains they have: The Alps


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