Ser Lepus Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I dislike when they make every country in a fantasy novel a copycat to a real world country; I think that´s just lazy...but GRRM is NOT doing that, fortunately; the Free Cities are not Italy, Dorne is not Spain and the North is not Scotland...they are medieval-like countries that may each share some features with several real-world countries...GRRM has even wisely avoided making Essos an asian/oriental copycat; the ghiscarians, qartheen and Ti Yi has no real corresponce to real-life oriental people, and he has it made it clear not giving them arab/asian/indian/whatever features (the ghiscarians are red-haired, the qartheen milk-skinned, and the Ti-Yi have bright colored eyes), and I think it´s for the better...I really HATE when the people in a fantasy novel start in a Europe-like country and then travel to a Arabia or China copy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurms McKenzie Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Whoa someone called Rome a shithole? They had bloody sewers and toilets! It's nowhere near medieval towns/cities where people just chucked their stuff onto the streets.Yup. Never underestimate the civilizing power of soft lavatory paper and a proper sewage system..............................................and good dentistry too! :whip: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooqueen126 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Not really 'linguistic similarities' other than they have some similar names. Other parts dont't seem to fit. For example, the only Valyrian example we have. I would say the names and words look like greek passed through latin and words reminiscent of Brythonic but passed through different transliterations.It's Greek passed through Latin and given a smattering of Generic Elf Language (especially the vowels)And Valyrians themselves have a Generic Elvish appearance.Rather than being genuinely sexy, like the Greeks and the Italians:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I dislike when they make every country in a fantasy novel a copycat to a real world country; I think that´s just lazy...but GRRM is NOT doing that, fortunately; the Free Cities are not Italy, Dorne is not Spain and the North is not Scotland...they are medieval-like countries that may each share some features with several real-world countries...GRRM has even wisely avoided making Essos an asian/oriental copycat; the ghiscarians, qartheen and Ti Yi has no real corresponce to real-life oriental people, and he has it made it clear not giving them arab/asian/indian/whatever features (the ghiscarians are red-haired, the qartheen milk-skinned, and the Ti-Yi have bright colored eyes), and I think it´s for the better...I really HATE when the people in a fantasy novel start in a Europe-like country and then travel to a Arabia or China copy...I strongly disagree with this — multiple parts of Martin's world have fairly obvious connections to ours, however loose. And I think he's said that most of the foundation story was inspired by the Wars of the Roses, which, as a pretty voracious reader of European history, I can plainly see. I don't think this makes him a weak or lazy or bad writer. I just disagree with you that none of the places in the novels seem to have historical equivalents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooqueen126 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I strongly disagree with this — multiple parts of Martin's world have fairly obvious connections to ours, however loose. And I think he's said that most of the foundation story was inspired by the Wars of the Roses, which, as a pretty voracious reader of European history, I can plainly see. I don't think this makes him a weak or lazy or bad writer. I just disagree with you that none of the places in the novels seem to have historical equivalents.If't is subtly done rather than simplistic, fantasy counterpart culture is fairly fun.Considering the skill with which Martin portrays the Wars of the Roses in a fantasy world, I would expect that if he researched the Italian city states and Middle East during the Wars of the Roses he would do an excellent job of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 The North: Scandinavia/Saxons.Dorne: Meditteranne.The Vale: Northern Europe, or Canada.Westerlands: Italy.Riverlands: Baltic.Stormlands: England, Ireland, Wales, Scotland.Reach: France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrakis Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Bulgaria-Dragonstone we have a custom when people walk and dance for hour above fire touching it without any pain or wounds.But seeing historicaly how our rulers have ruled in the past its almost equal naive as Stannis Baratheon did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelican Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 So interesting to see all the different interpretations -- I had never thought of Westeros as all the various kingdoms of early Britain. I tend more toward a broader European view. The only one I would toss in that maybe wasn't mentioned is the Riverlands as Belgium -- beautiful, productive, and completely vulnerable to invasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urine Greyjoy Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 GRRM doesn't really make one sided interpretations of his creations imo. Like he doesn't say "oh this is based on this...that is that..." so on and so forth, but rather takes bits and pieces from various sources and incorporates them into his vision. Although it's clear what the primary inspirations are in his work.The North, the Iron Islands, Dorne, the Free Cities and Essos are fairly easy to interpret, the rest is a grey area. The Reach, the Vale, Westerlands, the Stormlands are harder, they can be any nation in western europe really. France, Holy Roman Empire, Bohemia, Northern Italy, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecryptile Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 And there are American influences as well. Thanks to StagParty, I see as much Canada in the North as Scotland, and Mexico in Dorne, even a little California in the Westerlands (think 1849 Gold Rush, Hollywood, Nixon and Tywin) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm of House Tucker Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Go fuck yourself. If anyone fucks english up its Bostonians. Its a car not a caaaaar.This just made my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apekis Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Hi, Here is a collection I made from similarities btw westerosi/ossosi cities/castles and real-world cities/castles. http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5544/9c05.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viking warrior Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The North = Scotland, both have an independent lifestyle and both have their own way of doing things. And both have their own set of mountain clans/tribes. Riverlands = France, a potentially strong region divided by lords as mighty as kings and as disobedient as ones too. Dorne = Spain during the moorish period, a mixture of western and eastern. Iron Islands = Norway, poor country back home, ill suited for farming in most of the regions, forced to look outside of their homelands in search of wealth The Westerlands = Ireland(only with gold), due to the landscape, rolling hills. The Reach = also France due to the strong knightly tradition, the relatively warm climate and its waste size. The Vale = Italy, due to the climate, a warm country surrounded by mountains, Gulltown seems like venice to me The Crownlands = England, for some reason The Stormlands = Wales, some agriculture, They are weaker than their neighbours and have a long history of figthing with them. I don't know how heavily forrested wales are but could have a similarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleath56 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Whoa, the Lord of Light has brought this thread back to life again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser-Danken-for-twenty Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The North: Russia/Scotland, strange religion northern and coldThe Westerlands: England, coastal, well organized wealthyThe Riverlands: Germany (1600) fertile but ravaged by war by geographyDorne: Spain/Portugal, previous foreign culture(Moor/Rhyonar) and hot locationThe Reach: France, fertile populous and great climateThe Stormlands: Burgundy or Belgium, smaller versions of Reach(less wealthy)The Vale: tough one, probably Switzerland/Austria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser-Danken-for-twenty Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Here is my list:The North: Scotland. Adherence to old norms, and a fierce, somewhat savage but loyal outlook on life.The West: England. Cold, political, financially-driven. Perhaps even a touch of Holland.The Stormlands: Northern France. Think Romanesque cathedrals warding off Viking raids and constantly waring aristocratic factions.The Reach: Southern France. Think Alsace, or Nice.Dorne: Spain, with its dry climate, mix with a foreign people (Moors, Rhoynish) and isolation, both geographic and political, by the end of the 15th century.King's Landing: A mix of London, Rome and perhaps a bit of Constantinople.Oldtown: Alexandria, a bit of Constantinople.The Aerie: Romania, with a touch of England. Isolated, arguably bifurcated culture with savages and nobles both.Riverlands: Holland and Belgium. The lie between combatants and were victimized by Nazi Germany (Lannisters) the same way that Belgium and Holland were.Free Cities: Renaissance Italy. Weaker of sword arm and nobility, but powerful in terms of wealth, money-lending, science and the arts. Disparate city-states.Ghiscari: Arabia and North Africa.Southros: Africa proper.Dothraki: MongolsLahrazeen: Khazars or Tibet.Quarth: India.Valyria: Rome and Macedonia with a healthy mix of Pompei and or Atlantis.This is a great list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conna Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 This is something that I have been wondering since getting into ASOIAF. Martin must have modeled them after some sort of culture in history. Here are my guesses for some of them:The North=SaxonWesterlands=GermanyIron Islands=Vikings(Martin said that himself)Dorne=MediterraneanThe Riverlands=England IrelandFree Cities=PersiaThe Vale=ScandinavianAny other ideas?This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal BlackfyreO Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Wow, true true.Nah, Henry the VIII is Aegon the Unworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal BlackfyreO Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Deleted in favor of full post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleath56 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I think the best way to compare is via their government styles and archtecfure.A good comparison for the Free Cities is the Greek City States of Old Greece or the splintered Mediterranian of post-Rome.The Dothraki bear a likeness the Eurasian Steppes nations like the Golden Horde, the Huns, Magyars, and the early Rus.The Slaver's Bay seem to have a Aztec/Incan spiin with their Sun Pyramids or Babylonian Mesopotamia.Old Valyria is basically Republican Rome with dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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