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Too many half-witted characters being added


lyvyathan

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Wait, what about Tyrion? He might not have sixteen bastards but it surely isn't for lack of effort. As prostitutes the Seven Kingdoms over could attest... Surely he is the biggest slut in the series?

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No no no, Robert is the biggest slut in the series. I bet he had to whore around quite a lot to get himself 16 bastards all over the country.

You have a point. Battle at noon, who can whore up the Seven Hells the fastest is granted the official title Slut of The West, with accompanying jeweled thong.

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Wait, what about Tyrion? He might not have sixteen bastards but it surely isn't for lack of effort. As prostitutes the Seven Kingdoms over could attest... Surely he is the biggest slut in the series?

Not been around long enough. If we were basing this on effort Theon would win.

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Wait, what about Tyrion? He might not have sixteen bastards but it surely isn't for lack of effort. As prostitutes the Seven Kingdoms over could attest... Surely he is the biggest slut in the series?

I've actually wondered before if Tyrion might not have a bastard or two hidden in some brothel. Oberyn and Robert both have a lot of children (9 and 16, most of them by different mothers) to attest to their whoring ways, but Tyrion doesn't even have one ? Was he aware of some sort of contraception that no one else knows about, or are all the women he could have gotten pregnant too adverse to the idea of having a dwarf's bastards and getting rid of them ?

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I've actually wondered before if Tyrion might not have a bastard or two hidden in some brothel. Oberyn and Robert both have a lot of children (9 and 16, most of them by different mothers) to attest to their whoring ways, but Tyrion doesn't even have one ? Was he aware of some sort of contraception that no one else knows about, or are all the women he could have gotten pregnant too adverse to the idea of having a dwarf's bastards and getting rid of them ?

Honestly, I think he might be sterile. It doesn't make sense to me otherwise... there is no way that Shae would have been taking any contraceptive measures, for example (she told him how she could give him sons).

It is possible that he sired a dwarf or two that was promptly drowned at birth or sold to a mummer's troupe, but all in all, I doubt it. Tywin asks him if he is capable of fathering children and he says that he believes so but cannot prove it, though not for lack of effort.

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Achondroplastic dwarfism, which from his description Tyrion seems to have, usually does not inhibit fertility rates. However, many people with one of the various forms of dwarfism can also have hormonal issues, which can affect fertility. It may very well be that Tyrion is sterile or at minimum, has a very low fertility rate.

Or maybe when Cersei tried to twist it off when he was an infant, she screwed up his plumbing.

Just for kicks, here is a note from Wiki that I would pay dearly for Tywin to have read about:

"Research by urologist Harry Fisch of the Male Reproductive Center at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital indicates that this defect may be exclusively inherited from the father and becomes increasingly probable with paternal age; specifically males reproducing after 35."

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I think the fact that that's all you have to say about them is exactly the OP's point.

Why? Minor characters do not need to be incredibly fleshed out. That would just make things too complicated.

Right now, all we know about the Sand Snakes is they are passionate, fierce, and devious. (and sexy) I don't see why we need to know more than that.

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Plus, are all the Dornish women all sluts who spread open their legs the moment they see an opportunity? Isn't anyone else bothered by this?

Wait... are you saying that women should not like or have sex? Or the Martin is painting all the Dornish with one brush?

If its the former: Can someone please explain to me why its bad for women to have/like sex? Because I do not understand the problem.

If its the later: I think it goes with the rest of Dorne's culture. Dornish men are promiscous also. Hot weather + good wine = fun naked times! Dornish women also get to inherit. They don't have to worry about being disgraced if they fuck around, so they do so more often.

In the rest of the story, the only female virgin that isn't a child is Brienne, so Dorne isn't that different, just more open about it.

I'm also team Robert for biggest slut. 16 is quite an accomplishment.

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If its the former: Can someone please explain to me why its bad for women to have/like sex? Because I do not understand the problem.

Oh, I can help with this. They are probably 13 year old boys who have never seen a pair of breasts in their lives, let alone actually had sex. And the only way to deal with their fear and intimidation of women and sexual women is to denigrate them through misogynistic slurs like slut and commentary about spreading legs.
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Oh, I can help with this. They are probably 13 year old boys who have never seen a pair of breasts in their lives, let alone actually had sex. And the only way to deal with their fear and intimidation of women and sexual women is to denigrate them through misogynistic slurs like slut and commentary about spreading legs.

The thing is too, the Dornish aren't even that promiscous. They're just portrayed that way. None of the Sandsnakes are referenced as having sex, only Arianne is, and that occurence is no different than Cersei or certain other young ladies endeavors.

The only real Dornish "slut" is Oberyn anyways. But then again, most lords are

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No, I never said say that women should not enjoy sex. Far from it, but it does seem a gross caricature to have an entire nation of promiscuous women. I mean raise the bar GRRM. First we have Cersei who lick the cum off Robert's cock to destroy the chances of having his children - and then we have Arienna and the Sand Snakes...

What gives you the idea that all the Sand Snakes are "sluts" (also considering that 4 of them are like under 14) ? Arianne had a 6-month + relationship with Arys, and that's about all we saw of Dornish women's "slutty way". The Sand Snakes didn't have any relationships known to us in the series. Sarella for example is getting involved in the Citadel, she's probably not very "slutty" there since everybody's supposed to think she's a guy.

Personally I was hoping to see more intelligent women characters who are more noted for their wit, ingenuity than for their propensity to lift up their skirts each time they want something.

Its not about the sex Alexia - its how GRRM writes female characters with generally low intelligence that I find disappointing. But aren't you getting a little tired of that low brow stuff? Mayhaps you're not getting enough of it yourself? :D

You mean like Cat, Sansa, Arya, Dany, Asha, Melisandre, Olenna and Margaery Tyrell ? They're all very capable women in their respective domains.

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What gives you the idea that all the Sand Snakes are "sluts" (also considering that 4 of them are like under 14) ? Arianne had a 6-month + relationship with Arys, and that's about all we saw of Dornish women's "slutty way". The Sand Snakes didn't have any relationships known to us in the series. Sarella for example is getting involved in the Citadel, she's probably not very "slutty" there since everybody's supposed to think she's a guy.

You mean like Cat, Sansa, Arya, Dany, Asha, Melisandre, Olenna and Margaery Tyrell ? They're all very capable women in their respective domains.

I used the word "more" didn't I? We already knew that Dany was very capable except when her favourite sellsword is in town. Olenna seems very capable but we've seen so little of her so far. Hopefully we get to see more of her in the next book. Arya and Sansa are great too - but seem more like works in progress. I like Asha's story arc too and Mel, well great when she isn't squatting down and giving birth to supernatural monsters.

Ah, but why did you mention Catelyn? :D She's capable alright. Capable of getting everyone around her killed.

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Personally I was hoping to see more intelligent women characters who are more noted for their wit, ingenuity than for their propensity to lift up their skirts each time they want something.

I guess the problem I'm having is that I just can't see number of sexual partners have any significant correlation with competence, wit, ingenuity or capability. In fact, I would argue in a world like Westeros, sexual power is one of the few powers a woman with wit and ingenuity can wield.

With the exception of Dorne, women cannot inherit unless they have no brothers older or younger, in which case their husband actually inherits. Not every woman is built like Brienne, or can hold her own in fight with a grown man. We kinda got the shaft on upper-body strength. (nor can every women pull off Drag King like Allera Sand well enough to get into the Citadel) So, if you're not physically strong and you don't want to get married, your choice is the Silent Sisters, the Seven or prostitution.

Obviously, there is no power in church for women, so if you're ambitious and intelligent that isn't going to work for you. So, depending on your rank and circumstances, its going to be arranged marriage or prostitution. The only real difference between the two being monogamy (and then just maybe).

In male dominated societies through out history women have had to use sex to gain power. Have you heard of Aspasia? She was a Greek courtesan that taught Socrates rhetoric. The only reason she was allowed to walk around outdoors without a male escort and learn to read were because she was a prostitute. Such things would be unseemly in a married woman.

Here is a cute short list of some of the women who changed the world with their bodies because they weren't permitted any other resources. http://www.cracked.com/article_17126_5-whores-who-changed-course-history.html

As to the Sandsankes, you guys are right, they are not described as having any sexual relationships, just being beautiful. At first, through Arys POV I thought that Arienne was just using him, but in her POVs later it became clear that she had fallen for him, I don't see her behavior as slutty.I think it has been established that Dornish women are no more promiscuous that other Westerosi women, they are just less likely to be murdered for it so they talk about it more.

There is also no correlation between promiscuity and personal worth or competence, so I still really don't understand why calling the Sandsnakes sluts or whores is in anyway relevant or useful.

For the record, I think people frequently say really sexist things on accident. These ideas are pervasive in most cultures and just slip into the vernacular. When insulting a woman, slut comes to mind quickly and often said without considering what the word really means. I find it easiest for most people to avoid this with the: "would I say this about a man" test. If you would, than you should be okay. If not, its probably sexist.

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I've actually wondered before if Tyrion might not have a bastard or two hidden in some brothel. Oberyn and Robert both have a lot of children (9 and 16, most of them by different mothers) to attest to their whoring ways, but Tyrion doesn't even have one ? Was he aware of some sort of contraception that no one else knows about, or are all the women he could have gotten pregnant too adverse to the idea of having a dwarf's bastards and getting rid of them ?

Oberyn has more than 9 children. He has 9 daughters he acknowledges. We never hear of his sons, but I'm quite sure there are some out there. Even if their father displays no interest in them. Jaime said something along the lines that he has more bastards than Robert.

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I'd never considered that he might have more he hadn't acknowledged, but I guess that would make sense. Jaime said he had more bastards that Robert but I'm not sure anyone besides the reader knows that he has 16 (thanks to Maggy's prophecy). Varys the master of spies himself only knows of 8. (And actually there are only 8 Sand Snakes, I was always convinced there were 9, probably because I lump Arianne with them).

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I'd never considered that he might have more he hadn't acknowledged, but I guess that would make sense. Jaime said he had more bastards that Robert but I'm not sure anyone besides the reader knows that he has 16 (thanks to Maggy's prophecy). Varys the master of spies himself only knows of 8. (And actually there are only 8 Sand Snakes, I was always convinced there were 9, probably because I lump Arianne with them).

We don't even know that he has 16. We know that a spiteful woman told Cersei so but I could tell you that you have three sons and that doesn't make it so. We've only met or heard of 8-9 of them. ;)
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