The Official Cersei Lannister Appreciation thread

[Ser-Arthur-Dayne]

Also Arthur, I must say, that for a self-proclaimed Lannister hater, you seem to enjoy a bit too much Cersei unleashing hell ;)

Ah my dear friend, you must've missed my post #24 in the I don't like ___ because ___ thread. See I hate the Lannister HOUSE, yet I love Cersei. And hell, I love Cersei unleasing hell. That what makes her.... so.... intriguing.

[Greybeard]

I don't like Cersei as a character, but at the same time, she has a strange fascination... reading her POV chapters in AFFC is like watching a train crash in high-definition ultra slow-motion. :devil:

[Jamie Lannister]

She's a proud, vain, and arrogant person... but even so, I'm not surprised she thought she could do a better job at ruling than the batshit madman and the drunk wifebeater that preceded her. It's a slight shame that she's proved even worse, with even less longevity in office than either of them.

I hesitate to call it derailment, because that's not really fair in this case; the presence of Tywin and her status as King Bob's (practically) powerless queen was holding her back. Cersei's rule in AFFC marked the first time she had been given free reign to do as she pleased, but she simply proved ineffective. I suppose I simply wanted more from her character: more competence, more shrewd and sharp manipulation, and slightly less megalomania. A pity.

I still like her though, and I don't think she's done quite yet.

[Raksha the Demon]

I definitely don't think that the Lady of the Lions is done yet; she has plans. Big plans. Septas Unella and Scolera and friends, and the High Septon, and Margaery, and other Tyrells, had better look out.

[Greybeard]

I definitely don't think that the Lady of the Lions is done yet; she has plans. Big plans. Septas Unella and Scolera and friends, and the High Septon, and Margaery, and other Tyrells, had better look out.

Given that the stock response to any threat thus far has been "Hulk Cersei smash!" you could be right.

On the other hand, Jaime has become slightly more self-aware since hitting his personal low point in ASOS, so it may be possible that there's a redemptive mini-arc in store for Cersei. She's probably going to die a tragic death anyway, but a reformed Cersei biting the dust would be an interesting plot twist.

[LadyoftheNorth72]

So, I think most of us agree that Cersei is nowhere near done playing yet. Varys was nice enough to rid her of two of her past hinderers; the two she definitely could not seduce, or turn against each other.

What do we think she will do first? Because I have a very hard time imagining her sitting there, just waiting for her trial, especially when yet another powerful Lannister and their own Maester have been murdered.

If I were Cersei, I would get some documents ready for the king to sign, stripping down some of the Tyrell power and restoring some of my own (very, very carefully). I would have already had Qyburn working on some minions for Robert Strong.

I also think she will be doing her damndest to seduce someone, athough I am not positive who. I think I would try for Tarly. If she can get him, her position has just shot up exponentially. Convince him that since he is the far better soldier he should not have to bend the knee to Mace, and if he helps her sort things out, he won't have to in the future.

[Ser-Arthur-Dayne]

What do we think she will do first? Because I have a very hard time imagining her sitting there, just waiting for her trial, especially when yet another powerful Lannister and their own Maester have been murdered.

Hug UnGregor? I mean, he might just prove her innocence.

[Zar Lannister]

I also think she will be doing her damndest to seduce someone, athough I am not positive who. I think I would try for Tarly. If she can get him, her position has just shot up exponentially. Convince him that since he is the far better soldier he should not have to bend the knee to Mace, and if he helps her sort things out, he won't have to in the future.

Is Tarly even in KL at the moment?

With a dead Lannister and Pycelle dead, I think Cersei will come to realize she has to get it together and be composed. She's going to be around Septas all the time, so seducing (after her confirmed sins) is going to be kind of difficult in her current position. She will definitely not stay still, but I feel her moves will be more accurate but subtle. Her best bet is to get Tommen on her side again, so she'll be working on that while she lets Qyburn work on his little projects.

[Queen Cersei I]

My impression is that Jaime's reason for ignoring her plea is very much one of "she's made her bed, now she can lie on it" - not that he thinks he could do nothing to help her.

Clearly, he couldn't fight for her, but he is at the head of an army, and would have been in a position to put pressure on the Small Council to rescue her.

I don't think it's entirely down to sexual jealousy on his part. I think he's also furious at the mess she's made of things.

Not really. If the interactions with Auntie Genna are any indication, poor Jaime's too damn stupid to even realize how much of a mess Cersei made until he gets her letter. Of course, I'm exagerating a bit here, but not hugely.

The claim that Jaime was abandoning Cersei out of disgust of the mess she's made of things simply does not hold water, sorry. In AFFC, he is never truly infuriated by her dumb decisions, as he is with her sexual behavior-- he is put off and annoyed, and later frustrated and worried, however, Cersei's bad deeds do not get 1/8 amount of the attention that her sexual infidelities do in his mind.

Jaime is reflecting furiously about her sexual misdeeds throughout the course of the book. And it is after he finds out that she screwed other guys, rather than when he learns of her mistakes, that his feelings and opinion about her do a 180. It is then he decided he had never known her, starts referring to her as a whore constantly, and basically writes her off for good, having dreams about smashing her face in and commiting other violent acts against her after finding her in bed with another man. I'd say that the above is hardly evidence of higher morality or even a disgust at Cersei's incompetence.

So yes, Jaime's attitude is very much that "Cersei has made her own bed, and now she can lie in it." However, the reason he takes this attitude, and gives up on Cersei, is wounded pride and sexual jealousy. He surely would have come before he knew of her infidelities. He reflects in ADWD, "she was guilty of every treason they had accused her of." Interestingly, he himself is guilty of many of those same treasons... namely fornication with the married queen and having three of her children. But apparently we are supposed to overlook that enormous piece of hypocrisy and see Jaime's actions as righteous here.

Don't get me wrong. I certainly believe that Cersei was out of control in AFFC, and that her behavior was attrocious. However, the idea that Jaime abandoned her for that reason is ridiculous.

[Raksha the Demon]

I don't blame Jaime for being jealous and hurt that Cersei slept with other men; he has given himself to her and her alone. But it was immature, the action of an angry young man, to refuse to even see what kind of danger threatened her when she begged for his help; given that they had two young children who could not fend for themselves and needed at least one parent to look out for their interests. He was thinking of himself first; which is, almost constantly, what Jaime does.

[Zar Lannister]

I don't blame Jaime for being jealous and hurt that Cersei slept with other men; he has given himself to her and her alone. But it was immature, the action of an angry young man, to refuse to even see what kind of danger threatened her when she begged for his help; given that they had two young children who could not fend for themselves and needed at least one parent to look out for their interests. He was thinking of himself first; which is, almost constantly, what Jaime does.

Jaime doesn't see Tommen or Myrcella as his children at all. Sure, he sired them, but that's about as much parenting he's ever done for them. Of course, Cersei was only protecting her offspring by shunning Jaime, were it to become public that Tommen and Myrcella were Jaime's kids and not Robert's, it would have meant their deaths. It was however cruel of him to completely ignore these children simply because he wasn't allowed to.

[Evamitchelle]

So yes, Jaime's attitude is very much that "Cersei has made her own bed, and now she can lie in it." However, the reason he takes this attitude, and gives up on Cersei, is wounded pride and sexual jealousy. He surely would have come before he knew of her infidelities. He reflects in ADWD, "she was guilty of every treason they had accused her of." Interestingly, he himself is guilty of many of those same treasons... namely fornication with the married queen and having three of her children. But apparently we are supposed to overlook that enormous piece of hypocrisy and see Jaime's actions as righteous here.

You're taking that sentence out of context here. What he says is this : "Even if he had gone back, he could not hope to save her. She was guilty of every treason they had accused her of". He's just reflecting on the fact that it's harder to defend someone who's guilty because you can't prove the accusations false, considering that they're true.

[Ser-Arthur-Dayne]

Jaime doesn't see Tommen or Myrcella as his children at all. Sure, he sired them, but that's about as much parenting he's ever done for them. Of course, Cersei was only protecting her offspring by shunning Jaime, were it to become public that Tommen and Myrcella were Jaime's kids and not Robert's, it would have meant their deaths. It was however cruel of him to completely ignore these children simply because he wasn't allowed to.

Yes, but neither did Robert do much parenting :dunno:

[Zar Lannister]

Yes, but neither did Robert do much parenting :dunno:

Considering he always thought they were his kids, that is indeed true. But at least Robert was kind of sorry towards the end of his life and asked Ned to do him the favor of taking care of his heir.

[Ser-Arthur-Dayne]

Considering he always thought they were his kids, that is indeed true. But at least Robert was kind of sorry towards the end of his life and asked Ned to do him the favor of taking care of his heir.

Which was probably the biggest mistake in his entire life. People don't take care OF Joff, they take care to AVOID Joff.

[Zar Lannister]

Which was probably the biggest mistake in his entire life. People don't take care OF Joff, they take care to AVOID Joff.

No. His biggest mistake was going hunting for boar. It is known.

[salt]

Clearly the "boar" was actually a faceless man. It is known. By me.

Valar Boarghulis.