Jump to content

Is Aegon VI fake?


ReekRhimesWithSneak

Recommended Posts

I've been going through some topics here on the forum and I noticed a lot of people seem to think Young Griff is an imposter. I've read ADWD and maybe I missed something about this. Can anyone please tell me why people think he is fake. Is there some evidence of this somewhere or at least hinted at it in the books? I personally hope he is real and kicks some ass in TWoW.

This is also my first post here so apologies in advance for crappy wordscrafting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been going through some topics here on the forum and I noticed a lot of people seem to think Young Griff is an imposter. I've read ADWD and maybe I missed something about this. Can anyone please tell me why people think he is fake. Is there some evidence of this somewhere or at least hinted at it in the books? I personally hope he is real and kicks some ass in TWoW.

This is also my first post here so apologies in advance for crappy wordscrafting.

Well, I think he is fake because I don't think anybody could have foreseen that Tywin was going to kill Rhaegar's toddler children (Rhaenys was 3, Aegon <2). Even if they had, the logistics of a "baby swap" are a nightmare - all the servants would have had to be dismissed or trustworthy (most people will eventually talk, especially to to curry favor with a new king). And, Elia would have had to go along with the plan. How would Varys convince her to do this?

Why did Elia "fight like a tigress" against Ser Gregor to save....a peasant child switched with Aegon, not even her own son?

Why the hell do Varys and Illyrio care that much about a dynasty that they are not connected to (Targaryens)? Why did Varys feed into Aerys' madness if he wanted to protect the Targaryens?

Also, YG was introduced in book 5 out of 7, and we expect that somebody we've known from Book 1 will be playing a major part in the ending of the novels and in who gets the Iron Throne (after the Others are defeated, or sorted out).

ETA: Also, I think partially it is based on the fact that Tyrion guesses YG's age to be "around 15", while Aegon son of Rhaegar should be closer to 18 (and you can usually tell the difference between those two ages, but not always, of course).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well besides the reasons Silmarien laid out, there is the additional repeating by GRRM of the history of the Blackfyre rebellions, and the fact that Illyrio's lover was a woman named Serra who had the Targ features of purple eyes and silver blond hair.

So the odds that 'Young Griff' is in fact the last scion of the Blackfyre rebels disguised as a Targaryen go way up in my book.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ETA: Also, I think partially it is based on the fact that Tyrion guesses YG's age to be "around 15", while Aegon son of Rhaegar should be closer to 18 (and you can usually tell the difference between those two ages, but not always, of course).

Well, Tyrion guessed Jon's age to be twelve, when they first met. I think that he is same as Brienne in this. For people of abnormal size is harder to guess the age, at least according to GRRM.

Of course in real life even people with ordinary hight sometimes suck in this, myself for example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, Tyrion guessed Jon's age to be twelve, when they first met. I think that he is same as Brienne in this. For people of abnormal size is harder to guess the age, at least according to GRRM.

Of course in real life even people with ordinary hight sometimes suck in this, myself for example.

Well, I did say partially.

Tyrion also seems generally skeptical of YG and crew, anyway ("Maybe he is a Targaryen after all..." after YG knocks over a Cyvasse board and pieces after losing a game). That is probably a factor moreso than just the age guess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think one of the biggest reasons for doubt is the fact that the only people whose word we have for who he is are inveterate liars, schemers, and usually do nothing that does not first benefit themselves in some way. The idea that they are doing all this to restore the "rightful monarchy" or "for the good of the kingdom" is a bit hard to swallow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To accept Aegon as Rhaegar's son, we have to trust Varys. Varys, who is the most untrustworthy source of information, together with Littlefinger. Varys, who left his Pentoshi home to serve a foreign king in foreign Westeros for still unknown reasons. Varys, who can't have a family himself, but whose oldest and closest friend, maybe as close as a brother, had a wife with Targaryen features. Said friend is deeply involved in the whole Aegon/Dany/dragons/whatever affair for unknown reasons. And he acts a bit weird during the Tyrion/Haldon/Duck conversation.

If Aegon is Illyrio's son (and maybe a Blackfyre) Varys' and Illyrio's motivs are explained. The big unknown for four books suddenly makes sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and the fact that Illyrio's lover was a woman named Serra who had the Targ features of purple eyes and silver blond hair.

Oh snap. Shit just hit the fan for me. :stunned:

So that's why Illyrio actually seemed to be caring about another human being like Young Griff for once...Doih!

And that's also why I feel dismayed after reading these forums sometimes. :dunce: I technically do know everything that people are theorizing about, but being clever/having the insights of cleverer people is almost like a huge spoiler. See, I'm lucky I'm so not-perceptive!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had also written a big long post on why pulling off a baby swap would be pretty much impossible, but now I cannot remember what thread it was in and I don't feel like going back through 500 posts to find it. The essence of it was that there have been plenty of times in our own RL history when swapping babies could have averted a ton of crap, but it was not done precisely because it is simply not plausible to pull off swapping a royal infant. They usually have their own households full of retainers, guards and nurses and wetnurses, so the baby ever being left alone and reachable is highly unlikely. Then there is the problem of getting past all these people while smuggling the baby you intend to swap somewhere on your person.

Also, the idea that all babies more or less look alike and the swap would therefore go unnoticed is obviously ridiculous. The people who had been caring for the real Aegon would have noticed the difference immediately and screamed bloody hell, that the prince had been kidnapped.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The matter is ex-Hand Griff is pretty darn certain that "young Griff" is indeed Aegon Targaryen. Griff is a POV character and therefore can not lie.

Of course, as ex-Hand Griff was exiled prior to the Trident and consequential murder of Aegon, there are plenty of rooms of opportunities for Varys/Illyios to do switch and bait.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it would be bad writing in GRRM's part if Aegon was fake. It was explained very clearly in the books about Aegon's background and how he survived the sack of Kings Landing. If GRRM was to turn the tables and say "oh wait, he's actually an imposter after everything you read" i would feel a little ripped off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it would be bad writing in GRRM's part if Aegon was fake. It was explained very clearly in the books about Aegon's background and how he survived the sack of Kings Landing. If GRRM was to turn the tables and say "oh wait, he's actually an imposter after everything you read" i would feel a little ripped off.

A 'mummer's dragon' has been anticipated since ACOK, so it's hardly a case of turning the tables. I'd be willing to bet a million dollars (if I had it) that Aegon is a fake and that GRRM has been planning it all along (or at least since ACOK).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had also written a big long post on why pulling off a baby swap would be pretty much impossible, but now I cannot remember what thread it was in and I don't feel like going back through 500 posts to find it. The essence of it was that there have been plenty of times in our own RL history when swapping babies could have averted a ton of crap, but it was not done precisely because it is simply not plausible to pull off swapping a royal infant. They usually have their own households full of retainers, guards and nurses and wetnurses, so the baby ever being left alone and reachable is highly unlikely. Then there is the problem of getting past all these people while smuggling the baby you intend to swap somewhere on your person.

Also, the idea that all babies more or less look alike and the swap would therefore go unnoticed is obviously ridiculous. The people who had been caring for the real Aegon would have noticed the difference immediately and screamed bloody hell, that the prince had been kidnapped.

Unless the baby was switched at birth, then there would be no differences to see. The only baby that anyone would know would be the fake one. Plus there are lots of secret passages that Varys knows about to sneak around in to swap the babies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think there's any reason why Dorne shouldn't have known about the baby switch.

Arianne called Aegon a pretender.

& we've seen how Gilly acted when her baby was switched. Someone should have noticed Elia's change in behavior.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I subscribe to the theory of Aegon being Illyrio & Serra's child and that Serra was a Blackfyre. It was mentioned specifically (in ADwD?) that the Blackfyres were extinguished only in the male line. There were some more detailed discussions about this in prior threads put together by more experienced hands. My posts are usually short & sweet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The matter is ex-Hand Griff is pretty darn certain that "young Griff" is indeed Aegon Targaryen. Griff is a POV character and therefore can not lie.

Of course, as ex-Hand Griff was exiled prior to the Trident and consequential murder of Aegon, there are plenty of rooms of opportunities for Varys/Illyios to do switch and bait.

Yes but he is a character who V+I know has very good reasons to WANT to believe it's the real Aegon (like unresolved regrets regarding not protecting Rhaegar, etc.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...