Devouring their children: Portrayal of mothers in ASOIAF

[LuisDantas]

About the changes of the concept of childood and the mother's role in it read Elisabeth Badinter "le conflit - la femme et la mère", don't know the English title

It looks like it will be "The Conflict: How Modern Motherhood Undermines the Status of Women"

[Zmeischa]

And we should not analyse the author so much, he is entitled to his privacy

If we analyze him in the "Why is he so mad at mothers?" way, than it is extremely tactless indeed. If, on the other hand, we shall try to understand what he wants to tell us by depicting mother's love the way he did, and we start by determining the exact way it is depicted, and compare it to some other sorts of relationship in the series... I see nothing disrespectful in that.

[brashcandy]

Great thread, Queen Cersei.

My concern with GRRM's portrayal of mothers in the text is he has all of the most prominent ones - Catelyn, Cersei, and Lysa - depicted as going mad/ becoming completely unstable by their love or obsession with their children. You are completely right in your assessment that a mother's love is portrayed as something dark, primal and animalistic, and ultimately, if it does not consume the child, it consumes the mother.

It can't be a coincidence that these three women are almost exclusively defined by their role as mothers, and are punished most severely in the narrative for the varying ways in which they have perverted the "normal" mother to child relationship. Cersei is certainly portrayed as the most monstrous of all - she literally (as your title references) devours Robert's children by eating his sperm, and takes a twisted delight in this action. Unable to stand the thought of giving birth to her husband's spawn, Cersei creates her own breed of "monsters" - through the culturally repulsive method of incest, and it's little wonder that her first born turns out to be the sadistic, morally vacuous Prince Joffrey.

The almost crazed allegiance to their first borns is indeed what dooms these women. Lysa - having suffered through a forced abortion, and subsequent miscarriages indulges and coddles her child excessively, and Cat (with the exception of her attention to Bran in AGOT) refuses to leave Robb's side during the war, worries constantly about him, and ultimately dies with him at the Red Wedding. In constrast, the father's relationship to his firstborn son or male heir is not depicted as all consuming or irrational.

This is a bit ironic given the patrilineal structure of Westeros too. Randyll Tarly ships Sam off to the wall, Mace Tyrell seems to prefer his more dynamic son Loras, Balon Greyjoy mocks Theon's hopes, and Tywin Lannister outright tells Tyrion he will never get Casterly Rock even whilst knowing that Jaime refuses to leave the KG. Of course these examples are not absolutes - Tarly has a second son that he sees more promise in, and Willas is still heir to Highgarden, but he is lame. Balon sees Theon as more Northerner now and views Asha as a true Ironborn, and Tywin has serious doubts that Tyrion is even his real son. However, their attitudes are still notable in comparison to the almost hysterical relationship the mothers have with their sons. Even Ned's love for Robb is placed in conflict, with his clear devotion to his bastard son Jon, and even though Robb is the heir to Winterfell, Cat is never fully secure in this knowledge.

To come back to where I started - my concern is with the madness that each of the central mothers descends into, and is punished for. I don't like Lady Stoneheart - not simply because I never liked the original Catelyn - but moreso because she is truly a mocking manifestation of psychotic motherhood unleashed upon the world to exact revenge. I consider it a punishment, not for the Freys as GRRM would have us believe, but for Cat herself. There is nothing noble about Lady Stoneheart, not even her quest for vengeance. Cat deserved to rest in peace after such a traumatic experience, but GRRM chooses to bring her back as trauma personified, her throat slashed, her voice a croaking mess, and her general appearance utterly horrific.

In similar fashion, both Cersei and Lysa are shown to be respectively unstable/mad and are punished accordingly. Cersei rants and raves throughout AFFC and commits some horrific acts in trying to get rid of Margaery who threatens her control over Tommen and her own security as Queen. Lysa is thrown from the moon door after trying to do so to Sansa, and Cersei is made to do a walk of shame where her body is the focal point of her disgrace and shame. Stretch marks and saggy breasts tell the truth of what lay beneath Cersei's outward glamour, and Lysa's soft body, and milky scent do not endear her to readers, or we would imagine, to Littlefinger. These bodily signs of rampaging motherhood are only the outward show of an inner degeneracy that these women have already succumbed to, GRRM seems to be suggesting, and that such punishments are therefore fitting/necessary.

Whether we as readers agree or disagree is what matters at the end of the day.

[headtrip_honey]

This is a bit ironic given the patrilineal structure of Westeros too. Randyll Tarly ships Sam off to the wall, Mace Tyrell seems to prefer his more dynamic son Loras, Balon Greyjoy mocks Theon's hopes, and Tywin Lannister outright tells Tyrion he will never get Casterly Rock even whilst knowing that Jaime refuses to leave the KG. Of course these examples are not absolutes - Tarly has a second son that he sees more promise in, and Willas is still heir to Highgarden, but he is lame. Balon sees Theon as more Northerner now and views Asha as a true Ironborn, and Tywin has serious doubts that Tyrion is even his real son. However, their attitudes are still notable in comparison to the almost hysterical relationship the mothers have with their sons. Even Ned's love for Robb is placed in conflict, with his clear devotion to his bastard son Jon, and even though Robb is the heir to Winterfell, Cat is never fully secure in this knowledge.

Let us not forget that Theon was not the firstborn. He had elder brothers who died as ironborn, and whose memory is probably sacred in Balon's mind.

[brashcandy]

Let us not forget that Theon was not the firstborn. He had elder brothers who died as ironborn, and whose memory is probably sacred in Balon's mind.

True, but Theon was his heir regardless, and his dismissive attitude is therefore strikingly strange, even if we can understand it.

[headtrip_honey]

True, but Theon was his heir regardless, and his dismissive attitude is therefore strikingly strange, even if we can understand it.

I don't think it's strange at all - his elder sons were adults (I think?) when they died, so he'd had years thinking that they would inherit. Theon was never a part of that equation. And then when he *did* become part of that equation, he was taken by Northerners. Balon never had time to relate to Theon as a firstborn. He only had Asha.

[brashcandy]

I don't think it's strange at all - his elder sons were adults (I think?) when they died, so he'd had years thinking that they would inherit. Theon was never a part of that equation. And then when he *did* become part of that equation, he was taken by Northerners. Balon never had time to relate to Theon as a firstborn. He only had Asha.

I don't disagree with you. My point is only that even with all of this - Theon going to the North as hostage, Balon's bond with Asha etc - he still treats Theon in a careless, dismissive, negligent manner that whilst we can understand based on aforementioned separation etc, fits into the larger pattern of most of the prominent lords in Westeros not viewing their firstborns or male heirs in a positive light. I think it is a little ironic, and this lack of affection from the fathers - seems to make the mothers overcompensate, leading to the portrayal of what Queen Cersei is critiquing in this thread.

[Woman of War]

If we analyze him in the "Why is he so mad at mothers?" way, than it is extremely tactless indeed. If, on the other hand, we shall try to understand what he wants to tell us by depicting mother's love the way he did, and we start by determining the exact way it is depicted, and compare it to some other sorts of relationship in the series... I see nothing disrespectful in that.

Agree, of course I meant the personal private history of the author

[headtrip_honey]

I don't disagree with you. My point is only that even with all of this - Theon going to the North as hostage, Balon's bond with Asha etc - he still treats Theon in a careless, dismissive, negligent manner that whilst we can understand based on aforementioned separation etc, fits into the larger pattern of most of the prominent lords in Westeros not viewing their firstborns or male heirs in a positive light. I think it is a little ironic, and this lack of affection from the fathers - seems to make the mothers overcompensate, leading to the portrayal of what Queen Cersei is critiquing in this thread.

I don't disagree with your overall point - I was just pointing out that Theon doesn't really fit the pattern as he WASN'T a firstborn, and that Balon seemed to have bonded with his true firstborn just fine. He's a bit of an exception, is all.

[brashcandy]

I don't disagree with your overall point - I was just pointing out that Theon doesn't really fit the pattern as he WASN'T a firstborn, and that Balon seemed to have bonded with his true firstborn just fine. He's a bit of an exception, is all.

:) Ok. But the way I see it is that it doesn't matter if we're talking simply firstborn male heir, or male heir after firstborn son is unavailable for whatever reason. I think it is implied that Balon had an ok relationship with his two elder sons, but Theon remembers these boys as little sadists - beating him, telling lies etc. I think the separation from his family certainly impacted on the relationship between Theon and his father, but I'm not sure if they would have ever developed a close connection even if Theon had remained in the Iron Isles.

[Howlin' Howland Reed]

I think it is a little ironic, and this lack of affection from the fathers - seems to make the mothers overcompensate, leading to the portrayal of what Queen Cersei is critiquing in this thread.

GRRM portrays the fathers as lacking in affection. He then have the mothers overcompensate. Finally he punishes the mothers for this behavior. I do not follow this logic. Do you really mean that he punishes mothers for trying to fill the void of absent fathers?

Whether we as readers agree or disagree is what matters at the end of the day.

Matters how? This is not a disagreement, I'm just not sure in what way it matters whether we agree or disagree. :)

Frankly, I'd say that if Cersei, Lysa, and Catelyn are the examples we can come up with, I don't think there's much of a bias against women in these books. (Although, there could be of course, I'm just not sure the examples that have come up are as obvious as "you" [not specifically you, brashcandy] seem to think.)

Cersei is a villain, sure. Lysa was crazy, but we have been given some of the reasons she ended up the way she did, and in the end she felt more pitiable than anything. The guy who pushed her out the Moon Door is a real villain. I wanted to push him out. Catelyn (arguably) made some mistakes but overall she came across as a basically decent human being (warts and all). She was punished for... something. Her son's mistake I believe it was. She and a about a gazillion other people.

The number of men who murder, rape, mutilate, scheme, and abuse in ASOIAF far outnumber the women. I'd rather have Cersei as a babysitter, than Ramsay living in the same town. Or country.

Everyone and their mother (heh) are punished. Even the classic good guys. Davos lost his sons. Ned, his head. Quentyn was dying from severe burns in a total of three days.

[brashcandy]

@Howlin' Howland Reed,

Whether or not we agree that the punishment accorded to them was necessary or appropriate.

[Zmeischa]

Mother's love and father's love are really depicted differently, but the whole structure of the society, the family in that society and even the Faith makes it understandable. The Father is asked for justice, the Mother - for mercy. Father is the master of his children, but a mother is dependend of them, because in her life childbirth and raising of children takes an enormous space. Having children is a woman's main purpose, raising the children and tending the house are her main duties, and, to make things worse, there is always a threat that those children will be taken away from her. Even if we forget about the children's mortality, boys are sent to be squires and girls are married at a very young age. So, if the mother's love in the series looks hysterical, there is a reason for that.

On the other hand, the way people treat their children in the series is just the way their personality shows itself. Lysa clings to her love of Petyr with the same scary fervor as to her son. Cersei treats Tommen the way she treats Jaime and the realm: he is hers and he'd better do what he is told and remember it is all for his good. Tywin's children are his tools as much as Gregor Clegane is, only their purpose if different.

[James Nicholls]

Cersei is a villain, sure. Lysa was crazy, but we have been given some of the reasons she ended up the way she did, and in the end she felt more pitiable than anything. The guy who pushed her out the Moon Door is a real villain. I wanted to push him out. Catelyn (arguably) made some mistakes but overall she came across as a basically decent human being (warts and all). She was punished for... something. Her son's mistake I believe it was. She and a about a gazillion other people.

The number of men who murder, rape, mutilate, scheme, and abuse in ASOIAF far outnumber the women. I'd rather have Cersei as a babysitter, than Ramsay living in the same town. Or country.

That is a very good point, but isn't it true that you somehow expect it of the men in this book to rape, steal and murder? Women are generally portrayed as second-class citizens, in as much as they are all very dependent upon men to enact their will upon the world. Cersei is the obvious example, Catelyn too. Even really strong women like Asha are still tied to convention somewhat (Asha's claim to the Iron Islands is hampered by her lack of a penis, and marriage is discussed with her in mind often). Men have a lot more scope to make waves. I'm not saying this is sexist, because I think it's a pretty accurate portrayal of quasi-medieval society (and to a much lesser extent modern society).

The number of morally pure role models in this book is zero, but the closest we get to that is Ned - a man who is honest and true to his principles, and only lies in an attempt to save his children (which is really just the prioritising his "I love my kids" principle over "I want justice for this land" principle, which one can't blame him for). And one has to point out that although Ned's intentions are good (sound familiar?) the effect it has on his children is: Jon gets sent to wall, Robb declares war on Iron Throne, Arya goes missing, Sansa taken hostage, Bran and Rickon left alone in the north. I think there's a fair argument to be had that Ned neglects his family in the pursuit of his duty (although somewhat spurred on by Catelyn).

[nanother]

Actually, Tywin/Cersei might be one example of damaging fatherly 'love': we don't know many details of his parenting techniques, but it seems like he was genuinely fond of his daughter, yet he screwed up really bad. On the one hand he totally didn't give a shit about what she wants or how she feels about his plans, on the other hand I suspect that her pride and sense of entitlement results from Tywin filling her head with crap about Lannister pride and how she's supposed to marry Rhaegar etc

Also, I wonder how Randyll Tarly's favoured son will turn out - I wouldn't be surprised if he turned into as much of an asshole as his father is...

That said, I do find it odd that in all three 'fleshed out' mothers their instinct to nurture/protect is portrayed as something almost sinister. Although, I think Robin and Joffrey are only partly Lysa's and Cersei's fault, respectively - the bad parenting excerbated problems they probably would have had anyway.

[RevengeOfTheStarks]

This is an awesome topic of discussion, Queen Cersei. Can I just "like" everyone's posts on here because so many excellent points have been brought up?

I firmly believe that Robin suffers from hydrocephalus and his emotional and intellectual maturity were arrested because of this, not because of his mother.

:cheers: Fo' Sho'!

And the way I see it all love in this series is portrayed as damaging or at least potentially so. Robert loved Lyanna and it destroyed him from the inside out. Cersei loves Jaime and Jaime loves Cersei, just look at what they are now. Ned loved his children to the point where he allows his daughter to have swordfighting lessons, basically the equivalent of allowing her to walk around naked, and then confesses to treason to save them. Tywin loved Joanna so when Tyrions birth killed her he died a little himself. Aerys and Arianne, Lysa and Petyr, Dany and Drogo, there are countless examples of love, romantic or not, consuming both the holder of the torch and the one who is loved. It's like a wildfire, beautiful to see but utterly devastating to that it touches*. Even Loras, the paragon of fairy tale love, allows it to destroy his judgement.

Generally agree with this. GRRM demonstrates various types of emotional attachments untempered by reason and pragmatism, that have bad results. I think it's an immutable aspect of human nature, to be consumed by these emotions, and GRRM knows it which is why he peppers his story so liberally with these situations and uses them as plot devices. He's just keeping it real.

One teeny thing I take issue with: I think Ned was very much influenced to let Arya learn swordplay because he saw first hand what happened with Lyanna and their father restricting Lyanna's, eccentricities, shall we say? He doesn't want to do the same thing to his daughter, who so resembles his beloved sister. He lets her be her whole self, to the extent that he can in that society, and I love him for it. Also, that sword skill saved Arya's ass a few times if I recall, rather than hurt her.

I think GRRM just portrays mothers realistically. Unfortunately, not all mothers are loving and great influences on their children. Some are abusive (whether they know it or not). Others are just neglectful. I don't think ASOIAF portrays mothers differently than anything else - the running theme of moral "grayness" and "life is not a song" (ie, not all mothers are good mothers). Just IMHO.

In ASoIaF, when a father is "evil", or emotionally deviant, or overwhelmed with responsibility, their abuse toward their children (even if they think they love their kids) takes the form that all of their interactions prior to that have taken, minimal, perhaps distant - because they are the "providers", gone from home, hunting, working, warring, etc... When a mother is "evil", or emotionally deviant, or overwhelmed with responsibility, their abuse toward their children (even if they think they love their kids) also takes the form that all of their interactions prior have taken - "nurturing" (smothering) - staying close (too close), being protective (too protective), thinking that "mother knows best" (keeping them under lock and key, as Lysa does with her son).

So, I would argue that the mothers who abuse their children, whether intentionally or not, are not necessarily worse (in potential) than the fathers who do so, but that they are worse (in effect) than the fathers, simply because the mothers, in the traditional stay-at-home, nurturing role, are in closer proximity to the child, and their "love" (twisted as it might be) takes the confusing form of nurturing. Specifically, in the cases of Tommen and Robert (Arryn), they don't realize that their mothers are crazy, and do not realize that their mothers' love, however unintentional, is effectively poisonous to them.

Yes. The extremity of the divide between the MO of bad mothers and bad fathers is very clearly the product of gender roles in Westeros society. (I think the MO differences still exist to an extent in our society, because those roles still exist to an extent, plus the fact that mothers physically bearing and birthing children just adds an extra element to the mothering dynamic.) Women don't have the option of first getting married and bearing children, and then running off and abandoning them for the Game of Thrones. Either they have awesome adventures as single ladies (Brienne, Arya, Asha), being outliers in their society and getting varrying degrees of crap from people for it, or they do the "normal thing" and become mothers. When they take the latter route, their entire futures, their ambitions, their energy, is given over to, vicariously realized through their children. Naturally, if you're going to be a bad mother, it's going to be because you're smothering, and crazy obsessive, rather than neglectful.

That he is smart? :D

I believe it was Jung who said that it is very difficult to analyze authors of the good fiction using their texts, because their talent is getting in the way :D.

AMEN! I love GRRM's grasp on human nature and ability to create fleshed-out, dynamic characters of both genders. And to represent problems of the human psyche, really subtly but in a way that permeates the entire narrative.

[RevengeOfTheStarks]

@Howlin' Howland Reed,

Whether or not we agree that the punishment accorded to them was necessary or appropriate.

I don't think anyone is being punished here. Nor do I think mothers are overcompensating for anything the fathers are failing to do. Mothers are just doing what they're supposed to do in this society (see above post and Jon of House Snarkgayen's post), and sometimes going too far. I think this is a realistic portrayal of what can happen when you have such limited and constricting gender roles. I don't think it's good for any father-child relationship for a father to be expected to be so distant because of their duties in the outside world, but some people do better than others (i.e Ned). Similarly, I don't think it's good for mother-child relationships when the only outlet for a woman's ambitions and desires (to be remembered, to mold her world) are through her offspring. Once again, some women handle raising kids within this scenario, better than others. I just don't think these unfortunate circumstances, or the bad parenting resulting from them, are a punishment. They're observations of reality. That's just how things work out sometimes.

People have been commenting that the bad mother archetype in this series is worse, or more damaging than the bad father. I think that's been generally true. Even with Robert Arryn's disease, good parenting could have made him into a stronger, more independent and amiable person. Same for Joff. But why would the mothers be worse nut-cases than the dads? A distant or verbally/psychologically abusive father (Tywin) sucks but looking at it from the parent end, it's so much easier to be a crazy mom when you have no other outlets in this world beyond your children. Ambitious Cersei (and I am not knocking her for being ambitious, I love it, I just wish she was better at the Game), pours all her ambition and hope of ruling into Joff, and thne Tommen. She loves her children, but when your own interest and your childrens' are so intertwined, and you effectively end up having to play your kids like chess pieces, that love is not necessarily selfless. It can be downright damaging.

I personally, given my temperament and disposition, don't think I would make good choices if I had these kids I loved to death on one hand, and yet on the other my entire life and legacy and reason for being hung on them and my role as their mother rather than my own actions and abilities.

[voodooqueen126]

And the way I see it all love in this series is portrayed as damaging or at least potentially so. Robert loved Lyanna and it destroyed him from the inside out. Cersei loves Jaime and Jaime loves Cersei, just look at what they are now. Ned loved his children to the point where he allows his daughter to have swordfighting lessons, basically the equivalent of allowing her to walk around naked, and then confesses to treason to save them. Tywin loved Joanna so when Tyrions birth killed her he died a little himself. Aerys and Arianne, Lysa and Petyr, Dany and Drogo, there are countless examples of love, romantic or not, consuming both the holder of the torch and the one who is loved. It's like a wildfire, beautiful to see but utterly devastating to that it touches*. Even Loras, the paragon of fairy tale love, allows it to destroy his judgement.

*_{I totally stole this metaphor you guys}

Yeah but is that a good message? I think it's an extremely negative to believe that to be a good Septon, Maester, Defender of the Realm (The Night Watch), Defender of the King (The Kingsguard) one must give up love and attachment. Going on from their if, as these examples show, love makes you evil, it's not healthy.

[Raksha the Demon]

Good fathers:

Davos Seaworth - has advanced his children's status without compromising their - or his - integrity; seems to be fond of them, and their mother

Ned Stark - tried hard to be a good father, and was unconventionally imaginative in hiring a sword-master to train his daughter. Sacrificed his precious honor to save his other daughter's life.

Mace Tyrell - not the brightest man, but he does love his daughter and tries to protect her (and her interests)

Doran Martell - some fathers might have been far less kind to an heir who rebels against him and causes a dangerous political situation (not to mention nearly getting their royal ward killed); Doran has Arianne locked up for not too long a time, then explains his position and purpose to her and eventually releases her.

Oberyn Martell - he seems to have acknowledged all his daughters and cared for them well, and educated them to be very strong and self-sufficient

Controversial Fathers:

Hoster Tully - on the one hand, Hoster arranged excellent marriages for his daughters; on the other hand, he treated his younger daughter rather shabbily

Balon Greyjoy - treated his only daughter quite well for an Ironborn, teaching her how to fight and sail; but treated his long-lost heir, Theon, like dirt when Theon returned

Indifferent to Bad Fathers:

Robert Baratheon - sired all those bastards, and barely stays interested in them; relies on Varys to send birthday gifts to the one noble-born bastard; and doesn't even think to make arrangements that will keep them safe from Cersei. Not to mention his botch of parenting Joffrey, who will succeed him as King, or Tommen or Myrcella (who would have probably been delighted at some paternal interest).

Stannis Baratheon - makes sure his only chlld has food and clothing and shelter befitting her rank; that seems to be the extent of his interest in her well-being.

Randyll Tarly - no explanation needed

Craster - ditto

Roose Bolton - he might have been a decent father to the legitimate son who died; but he certainly hasn't been a good father to Ramsey; and he's not being a good father to his unborn child out of Fat Walda if he's already given up on the child's surviving his death - why couldn't he make some attempt to assure that Ramsey doesn't kill the kid?

Tywin Lannister - Paid no attention, apparently, while his daughter grew up resentful and vicious; then used her as a dynastic pawn and didn't mind that her royal husband beat and raped her (it's interesting that Ned Stark, who is usually a good father, has no problem with Sansa staying betrothed to someone who is at the minimum seriously unstable; until he finds out that the kid isn't actually the King's son...). And let's not forget that he ruined Tyrion, who had the best temperament and mind of his three children.

Good Mothers:

the Queen of Thorns: She may make fun of her son "Lord Puff-Fish", but she is devoted to the welfare of her grandchildren, not to mention their advancement

Catelyn Stark: even including her dislike of Jon Snow (she was not his mother), Catelyn tried hard to do the right thing for her kids. It wasn't all her fault that she was torn between threats to her children, threats to her husband, threats to all the Starks, and her father's illness; or that she was not the greatest politician and military strategist. She did not deserve to see her son butchered at a wedding...

Joanna Lannister - from the little we know of her, she was probably a good mother. She did take steps to address the burgeoning problem of Cersei and Jaime becoming sexually involved; and she had planned to marry at least one of them to a worthy consort (Oberyn and/or Elia).

Gilly - she tries very hard to save her baby, despite the infant's being the result of incestuous rape, she loves him; and misses him when she has to leave him. She is also sufficiently kind and maternal enough to be good to the infant she has been forced to take on in her son's place.

Val - seems to care about the child who has taken her nephew's place

Barra's mother - the young prostitute who gave birth to Robert's baby; poor thing died trying to save her baby; she could have lived if she hadn't fought for her child.

Controversial Mothers:

Cersei Lannister and Lysa Tully - even at their very worst, no one can say that these ladies are trying to do their children harm, or are indifferent to them. They are both very protective (too much so in most cases) and want their children to have good lives, which is more than one could say for Randyll Tarly. I wonder what Cersei would have done if Myrcella got herself pregnant by some low-ranked fosterling, though...

There are a lot of dead (Rhaella Targaryen, Cat and Lysa's mother) and off-screen (i.e. Lady Greyjoy, Lady Martell) mothers, aren't there...I wonder why absolutely nothing is known about the mother of Brandon, Ned, Lyanna and Benjen; not even her name.

[brashcandy]

I don't think anyone is being punished here. Nor do I think mothers are overcompensating for anything the fathers are failing to do.

I've already elaborated on how I think these women have been punished, so I'm not gonna go into that again, but just to address your statement on the mothers not overcompensating:

Cersei: Receives little to no help with raising Joffrey. Jaime sees them as nothing more than squirts of seeds, and Robert is no better than a dead beat dad essentially. He clearly has no idea of how to deal with Joffrey's early signs of sadistic behaviour and just lashes out in anger.

Lysa: Goes overboard in nurturing Sweetrobin as he is a sickly child and her only child at that. We don't get much evidence about Jon Arryn as a father, but I would imagine that a man of his age wasn't going to be the most attentive father. He also decides to take Sweetrobin away and have him fostered out, a decision that most likely encouraged Lysa to go along with LF's plans more eagerly.

Catelyn: Is genuinely paranoid over Jon Snow and her children's inheritances throughout the series. There is a clear conflict in her mind between the presence of Ned's bastard in the home, along with her first born son. Even though it is clear that Ned loves Robb and has no intention of disinheriting him, Cat can never feel secure due to Ned's refusal to tell her anything about Jon's parentage. I think this is in large part why she stays with Robb throughout the war. Not only because he is her son and she wants to make sure he is safe, but because now that Ned is dead, Robb needs to succeed to ensure his legacy of Winterfell is safe. When she learns that Bran and Rickon are dead, keeping Robb alive becomes even more paramount because his failure means the loss of Winterfell to her worst fear: Jon Snow.