Why do people like Stannis.. I don't get it?

[The King in the South]

Kay, you're right. Take back everything I said about Selyse's loneliness, her mistreatment, the mockery of all of Westeros, etc. Her stache is clearly the outer manifestation of her inner corruption. Or something. :rolleyes:

:cool4: means sarcasm? Doesn't it...-.-

As for your point

Ehh. I don't feel any worse for her than I do Stannis. They both come off as hated, unattractive, awkward, etc. Which you'd think would make them perfect for eachother or something.

[LuisDantas]

I've finished ASOS (and ACOK) and I've hardly even seen Selyse. It is humiliating that Stannis left her behind, however.

On the other hand, I can't help but wonder what drove her to support Melisandre...

[seanbean4lyfe]

:cool4: means sarcasm? Doesn't it...-.-

As for your point

Ehh. I don't feel any worse for her than I do Stannis. They both come off as hated, unattractive, awkward, etc. Which you'd think would make them perfect for eachother or something.

I think Mel has played a part in making Stannis thinking he ISN'T in fact hated, unattractive, akward, etc.

well, jk. he knows he's hated.

but I think Mel is somewhat of a confidence boost for ol' Stanny, so he thinks he can do better than Selyse.

Being an unattractive woman in westeros is sooooooo much worse than being an unattractive man.

I think this was lightly touched in the thread about high born women being attractive...women who are unattractive essentially cannot do anything...they're there for us to laugh at their moustaches (guiilltyyyy!) while unattractive men (Sandor, Ser Jorah, even Stannis!) have some freaky following of women.

[LadyoftheNorth72]

OMG, Alcanis did not say a word about Selyse's appearance. Really, people? We can't even ask someone what they meant before the sarcasm-loaded diatribes?

Selyse could outshine Dany in beauty and still be a terrifying, offputting, morally disgusting woman. She is a religious fanatic of the worst sort, favors and encourages burnings as sacrifice, has no sympathy or empathy or concern for anyone or anything except *maybe* her daughter, and has been just as ugly to Stannis as he has been to her.

This is the woman, when told of thousands of starving women and children, who basically said "let them die, they don't matter.". Proving that not only is she a fanatic, she is a complete fool about her own chosen religion, who cannot add two plus two (or, in this case, thousands of starving people plus thousands of dead equals thousands of potential undead).

The fact that she is described as homely makes no difference to me. The fact that she is as self centered, cold, unfeeling and egocentric a character as exists in this series does. She is in a position where she could do a great deal of good in helping to resettle the wildlings and save lives, but instead she chooses to sit on her ass, looking down her nose at everyone, when she has done absolutely nothing to be proud about.

[seanbean4lyfe]

OMG, Alcanis did not say a word about Selyse's appearance. Really, people? We can't even ask someone what they meant before the sarcasm-loaded diatribes?

Selyse could outshine Dany in beauty and still be a terrifying, offputting, morally disgusting woman. She is a religious fanatic of the worst sort, favors and encourages burnings as sacrifice, has no sympathy or empathy or concern for anyone or anything except *maybe* her daughter, and has been just as ugly to Stannis as he has been to her.

This is the woman, when told of thousands of starving women and children, who basically said "let them die, they don't matter.". Proving that not only is she a fanatic, she is a complete fool about her own chosen religion, who cannot add two plus two (or, in this case, thousands of starving people plus thousands of dead equals thousands of potential undead).

The fact that she is described as homely makes no difference to me. The fact that she is as self centered, cold, unfeeling and egocentric a character as exists in this series does. She is in a position where she could do a great deal of good in helping to resettle the wildlings and save lives, but instead she chooses to sit on hervass, looking down her nose at everyone, when she has done absolutely nothing to be proud about.

these things are all very, very true. but all people ever pull out is that she is ugly and "poor Stannis" because he is married to her...because she is ugly NOT because she is a horrible/pretentious/crazy person.

i don't feel bad for her...i just think it's interesting

[JKeats]

OMG, Alcanis did not say a word about Selyse's appearance. Really, people? We can't even ask someone what they meant before the sarcasm-loaded diatribes?

Selyse could outshine Dany in beauty and still be a terrifying, offputting, morally disgusting woman. She is a religious fanatic of the worst sort, favors and encourages burnings as sacrifice, has no sympathy or empathy or concern for anyone or anything except *maybe* her daughter, and has been just as ugly to Stannis as he has been to her.

This is the woman, when told of thousands of starving women and children, who basically said "let them die, they don't matter.". Proving that not only is she a fanatic, she is a complete fool about her own chosen religion, who cannot add two plus two (or, in this case, thousands of starving people plus thousands of dead equals thousands of potential undead).

The fact that she is described as homely makes no difference to me. The fact that she is as self centered, cold, unfeeling and egocentric a character as exists in this series does. She is in a position where she could do a great deal of good in helping to resettle the wildlings and save lives, but instead she chooses to sit on her ass, looking down her nose at everyone, when she has done absolutely nothing to be proud about.

I agree that her attitude to the wildlings at Hardhome was quite cruel. She does have a deeply unpleasant personality, but I can't help wondering how she came to be that way.

I think I have a soft spot for Selyse for many of the same reasons I have one for Tyrion. Tyrion at least has legions of fans (myself included) because he is a major protagonist. We get to know him. If Selyse had a larger role in the story, maybe we could get to know her as well. But more bad luck for her, that will likely never happen.

[mediocre cheese]

OMG, Alcanis did not say a word about Selyse's appearance. Really, people? We can't even ask someone what they meant before the sarcasm-loaded diatribes?

Selyse could outshine Dany in beauty and still be a terrifying, offputting, morally disgusting woman. She is a religious fanatic of the worst sort, favors and encourages burnings as sacrifice, has no sympathy or empathy or concern for anyone or anything except *maybe* her daughter, and has been just as ugly to Stannis as he has been to her.

This is the woman, when told of thousands of starving women and children, who basically said "let them die, they don't matter.". Proving that not only is she a fanatic, she is a complete fool about her own chosen religion, who cannot add two plus two (or, in this case, thousands of starving people plus thousands of dead equals thousands of potential undead).

The fact that she is described as homely makes no difference to me. The fact that she is as self centered, cold, unfeeling and egocentric a character as exists in this series does. She is in a position where she could do a great deal of good in helping to resettle the wildlings and save lives, but instead she chooses to sit on her ass, looking down her nose at everyone, when she has done absolutely nothing to be proud about.

Good point melisandre is pretty vile. And she told jon not save the wildings too.

[Slychd]

Selyse deserves more sympathy than she gets, both from readers and from characters in the series.

I am mostly indifferent to her myself, but if she got more character development that may change. I don't see that happening though, as she's just not that important to the overall narrative.

I don't mean to derail this topic, but what are reasons Selyse deserves more sympathy than she gets? The only redeeming qualities I see in Selyse are her husband and child, and those are both marginal at best. I could say she has strong faith in her new religion as well, but nothing else comes to mind.

[RandomWanderer]

He hold Davos in higher esteem than highborn lords.

He prefers to hear the truth, even if it's unpleasant.

He defends the realm while other kings are busy backstabbing each other.

I have to admit I will give those three to him, those ARE things I do like about Stannis.

[JKeats]

I don't mean to derail this topic, but what are reasons Selyse deserves more sympathy than she gets? The only redeeming qualities I see in Selyse are her husband and child, and those are both marginal at best. I could say she has strong faith in her new religion as well, but nothing else comes to mind.

She is stuck in a loveless marriage. She has no friends. She gets mocked for something beyond her control (the infamous mustache). Fairly or not, women in her position are expected to bear male children, which she has failed at (again, not her fault). Her's is not a happy situation.

Basically I say she deserves more sympathy than she gets because she suffers, but nobody seems to care. We don't know if she has always been so cruel and bitter. She may have been different once, when her life still had some joy in it.

[seanbean4lyfe]

She gets mocked for something beyond her control (the infamous mustache).

well now, that's not true.

she could...shave.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

You say you like Davos, but who do you think saw Davos' potential and brought him up from a smuggler to a lord, based largely on merit?

Stannis.

I'm not a huge fan of the guy, but I think he has his strong points. Namely, a pretty unyielding sense of justice, however misplaced. He's the only one who takes the Night's Watch's pleas seriously (Davos urged him, but he could still have said no). He's a good battle commander and I think he's made of tougher stuff than Robert.

Plus, you know, he actually is the rightful heir to the throne.

[LuisDantas]

I could say she has strong faith in her new religion as well, but nothing else comes to mind.

Faith in the righteousness of burning people and other people's representations of faith is a liability, not an asset.

[James Nicholls]

I'm not gonna lie, the man has swagger. You just can't learn that shit, you have to be born with it.

[coldplums8]

Hold on, don't tell me Stannis was sleeping with Melissandre??! Mistress?! Nuh-uh...I thought the "red whore" stuff was just rumors based on their level of confidence and info-based intimacy.

But yes, Stannis is a lonely, somewhat bitter, tragic figure whose sheer depressing, sarcastic, blunt persona makes him great. And I like him because he makes me feel not alone sometimes. When, you know, you're the last standing person in the world who seems to care about truth and justice and rights when all around you people are betraying honor and oaths for stupid young notions of glory, charm, sparkly copper, gorgeous curls, whoring, gambling, and whatever saves their butts. It's frustrating that fake and superficial ideas are sometimes the most tempting ones, and that no one stands by what's right. So I guess that makes Stannis a champion of truth lol.

[LuisDantas]

Hold on, don't tell me Stannis was sleeping with Melissandre??! Mistress?! Nuh-uh...I thought the "red whore" stuff was just rumors based on their level of confidence and info-based intimacy.

She has a conversation with Davos in ASOS that might be of interest. And a line in ADWD, although I haven't reached it yet.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Storm_of_Swords-Chapter_25

I doesn't state outright that she is having sex with Stannis, but the implication is quite evident, all the more so because of the offer she makes to Davos immediately after.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

She has a conversation with Davos in ASOS that might be of interest. And a line in ADWD, although I haven't reached it yet.

http://awoiaf.wester...ords-Chapter_25

I doesn't state outright that she is having sex with Stannis, but the implication is quite evident, all the more so because of the offer she makes to Davos immediately after.

Yeah, there's a line in ADWD about how "with Stannis gone her bed had gone cold" or something to that effect.

Plus, gotta make dem shadow babies.

[coldplums8]

So Cersei gave up on spending her "purse" on Stannis without even a shot, but Melissandre is charming Selyse and banging Stannis? Holy crap.

[Slychd]

She is stuck in a loveless marriage. She has no friends. She gets mocked for something beyond her control (the infamous mustache). Fairly or not, women in her position are expected to bear male children, which she has failed at (again, not her fault). Her's is not a happy situation.

Basically I say she deserves more sympathy than she gets because she suffers, but nobody seems to care. We don't know if she has always been so cruel and bitter. She may have been different once, when her life still had some joy in it.

I can accept these as reasons for more sympathy for Selyse, she hasn't had things so easy as others, but she behaves rather poorly most of the time, and it is off-putting.

I do not think Stannis slept with Melisandre, I think her referring to the bed not seeing use refers to her not sleeping in it because she doesn't need sleep (being so magical or undead or what have you). It is just so out of character for Stannis to sleep around, but I don't know how shadow babies are made, maybe they come by a dark stork lol.

[Evamitchelle]

well now, that's not true.

she could...shave.

She actually tries to get rid of it frequently, but it just grows back all the time (as per the ACoK Prologue IIRC).