Why do people like Stannis.. I don't get it?

[1234567]

Or Rhaegar?

I can actually see it going harder with her had she yelled out Rhaegar. :frown5:

Robert is an a grade asshole. I actually think Cersei could have found some happiness with someone else (even though she still loved Jaime), if they had only, you know, marginally lived up to their side of what is expected of a husband....living up to that cloak of protection and all.

[Serie]

She could have shaved it for him, that would give that the time to discuss about their relationship (if Bob wasn't drunk yet).

Isn't he a beast? I could fall for him easily :P

seriously now women seem to like Robert despite his obvious flaws. Remember the whore in KL?

@Queen Cercei I: every time I read "King Bob" I picture Bob Squarepants with a beard and a crown... from now on with a hairy chest as well...

[Evamitchelle]

Or Rhaegar?

I think it wold have been worse if she'd called Rhaegar's name that Jaime. Robert already thinks Rhaegar stole his fiance, if he realizes that his wife fantasizes about him as well he'd have gone mental.

[1234567]

You just killed me, lol. I bet Robert wouldn't realize it though, he's not the brightest.

Good god, you have a point!

Cersei: Jaime! Ahhhhh!

Robert: Why are you calling for your brother? Barristan is guarding us tonight. Stupid women.....ah Lyanna..snore...snore.

[Slurms McKenzie]

Cersei: Jaime! Ahhhhh!

Robert: Why are you calling for your brother? Barristan is guarding us tonight. Stupid women.....ah Lyanna..snore...snore.

Sounds like you are you suggesting that Barristan is watching them perform the nasty?

[The King in the South]

Sounds like you are you suggesting that Barristan is watching them perform the nasty?

Why do you think most of the Kingsguard is celibate?

.

.

(hint: they saw robert naked)

[The Oncoming Storm]

I don't think having sex with Mel is a luck. That's what made him look so skeletal and prematurely aged. Siring shadows must be a tough job... and Mel is sucking out his life force in the process. She's still creepy, no matter how hot. And I think Stannis/Mel is dub-con at best.

What poor king would need would be a lady wife who gives him respect (unlike Selyse who only sticks with him because she likes power), knows how to win the people's heart (since Stannis sucks at PR), and can give him heirs. A real lady. (That leaves only a few women on Westeros...) I don't think Stannis is asexual, he's just seriously repressed. He's like a volcano under that cold surface, full of anger, bitterness and distrustful of 99% of people. (Wisely.)

[1234567]

Both he and Selyse needed different spouses. Selyse may well have been quite a nice young girl ( after all even if she married at 18, she'd be like 29 now) and has become the way she is over time.

Equally Stannis would have suited someone different.

Both of them needed someone that let them feel they were lovable and deserved to be loved and were loved.

[The Mother of The Others]

Who likes Stannis? People with younger brothers. Brothers who got a car in highschool when they clearly didn't deserve it. While the older brother had to do without because the parents were still figuring out how to wing it when the first kid was growing up, so they were too scared back then about the college savings thing to get anybody a car. That's who likes Stannis.

[Silmarien]

I think this is 100% misreading and whitewashing. Stannis has very strong emotions, as others have said, his bitterness, his desires to be loved, his jealousy of Robert. All of which are understandable (but not admirable). He judges things by self-interest just as much as any character in the book, not on merit. You think Imry florent got made admiral of his fleet based on merit? I think his decisions are generally awful but leaving that aside, whether they are good or bad, they are colored not by lack of emotion, but by the same mix of ambitions/desires that color every other character in the books. Stannis often has a hard time conveying his emotions, which is why he lets them out all at once in several davos chapters, but its not like he lacks them.

No offense, but this post seems to indicate a lack of familiarity with actual CEOs. The apprentice is a show, the winners don't really get anything, nor are the contestants representative of anything other than trying to get ratings. The only actual CEO on screen is Trump, who is the opposite of a robot, and is buffoonish in his over the top persona. In order to succeed in the business world, you have to tremendous people skills, the key is working with people. Nearly all ceos (the exception being those who founded their own companies) are described as being personally gregarious and charismatic. Someone like stannis, would flail out of the modern corporate environment quite rapidly, his rudeness would poorly rub off on his coworkers, his lack of deference would piss his boss off and anti-fun attitude wouldn't help him at office socials.

Nixon is the exception to the rule, every other president of the modern era (Kennedy, Johnson, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Obama) are described as being personally likeable and generally amiable.

IMO, the guy who'd be the equivalent to the modern day ceo/politician is renly. He's charming to those around him, gives off the impression of being in agreement, (even when he's not) generally is solicitous in other's wellbeing (even when he probably doesn't care about the individual in question in the slightest). A modern day stannis would likely be the type of high school teacher most kids hate (because he'd be a stickler for the rules, personally rude, and bitter that his genius wasn't fully appreciated), but a few devoted students (the davos's of the class) love. So basically Walter White.

LOVE the comparison to Walter White (from TV series Breaking Bad, on AMC).

I agree with those who defend Selyse against attacks based solely on her looks. I actually feel really sorry for her, mostly. A loveless marriage, only one, disfigured child (doesn't mean Shireen is "worse" than a "normal" child, but it reflects on the woman in those times, and finding a marriage partner for Shireen, who is described as homely herself, might be difficult), what else did she have to turn to than some new, Red religious following? Not that it excuses her rudeness or brusque personality, but I still feel bad for her.

I also think Stannis perhaps has Asperger's Syndrome - though he seems normal enough with Davos. And he is able to lead a sizable army ( and fleet for KL) against both KL, and Winterfell.

I like the guy, overall. He's the only one who answered the NIghts Watch's distress calls. And he cares about justice and the good of the realm. And, he sees the value in a commoner like Davos, and raises him to Hand. I really love Davos, so I gotta love Stannis for that.

[Silmarien]

The reasons I like Stannis Baratheon...

He believes in unbending justice. While I am usually on the opposite side of the fence, (Chaos and evil!), I respect that he refuses to bend or manipulate justice to placate simpering lords and vapid ladies who want to get something out of him. He doesn't play the game of thrones the same way others do, he does it straight up and doesn't bother with the political crap that the others ensnare themselves in. And unlike Eddard Stark he recognizes that honour is good, but can be a hindrance and you should know when to operate without it, when to bide your time and when to pick the right moment.

His deadpan humour is hilarious. Tyrion and Jaime have the witticisms and character studies of others that show them in a funny light, but Stannis gets the uncomplicated yet hilarious humour. He can simply say something that another would say in anger or sarcasm and make it funny just by not allowing emotion to enter it.

He is willing to hear things he doesn't like and deal with them in a calm manner. Dany, Cersei, Robb, Joffrey and Renly all are, or were, incapable of this. They are, or were, utterly disinterested in hearing things that didn't benefit them or another's opinion on something if it disagreed with them or seeing the truth and not trying to ignore it because it isn't what they want to see. Stannis at first was the same but his trials have made him willing to listen to others, take advice and recognize the value of a dissenting opinion.

He is a real warrior. Dany has never touched a sword in her life and would never do so, Robb was more of a battlefield commander same as Tywin Lannister, Renly was something of a decent jouster, Joffrey was a coward and Tommen is a boy. Stannis is a real warrior and commander, he knows how to fight and can defend himself quite well. Which is the main reason I don't believe Ramsay Bolton's BS letter about killing him, Ramsay couldn't hope to cut through even the weakest of Stannis's knights let alone the man himself.

He knows that good acts do not erase evil acts. Other kings and queens are willing to pardon murderers, rapists, thugs and madmen if they can get something out of it. Stannis believes that you should pay for what you do, no matter how much money you offer to throw at him, how many swords you offer to pledge to his cause, or how influential you are. If you have performed an evil act, you should pay for it and accept it.

LotN

Since when did Renly joust? Ser Loras jousted, but I don't recall Renly ever participating.

Also, why are you knocking Dany for never getting training at sword-fighting? She's female. Not even her brother, Viserys, was trained to fight in battle. They were on the run as children, then she got married off to Khal Drogo. Why can't she still command from the rear? She's sensible and strategic about her battle plans.

There's nothing wrong with being like Tywin, or Ned, and commanding the reserve, instead of like Jaime or Robert, who love fighting.

[Serie]

Who likes Stannis? People with younger brothers. Brothers who got a car in highschool when they clearly didn't deserve it. While the older brother had to do without because the parents were still figuring out how to wing it when the first kid was growing up, so they were too scared back then about the college savings thing to get anybody a car. That's who likes Stannis.

Love this!

Both of them needed someone that let them feel they were lovable and deserved to be loved and were loved.

that's so sad. I'm *this*close to like Stannis (more than I already like him anyway) even though I dont have brothers.

[Stannis the Great]

Who likes Stannis? People with younger brothers. Brothers who got a car in highschool when they clearly didn't deserve it. While the older brother had to do without because the parents were still figuring out how to wing it when the first kid was growing up, so they were too scared back then about the college savings thing to get anybody a car. That's who likes Stannis.

Wow I'm the eldest child and my only sibling is a younger sister. Don't give up the day job.

[1234567]

Wow I'm the eldest child and my only sibling is a younger sister. Don't give up the day job.

I'm an only child...but I had a lot of imaginary friends when I was 4, so they might count! :P

[Queen Cersei I]

I can actually see it going harder with her had she yelled out Rhaegar. :frown5:

:devil: What do you mean by "it" when you say, "I can see it getting harder if she had yelled out Rhaegar"? Does "it" belong to Robert? Remember, Freud put rage up to frustrated, repressed desire. And we know that Robert was jealous of Lyanna and Rhaegar-- but the question of, who was he REALLY jealous of? :uhoh:..... Did Rhaegar steal his woman, or did his woman steal Rhaegar? Hmmmm...

And the whole- "I'm going to stick mah great, big, hard, symbolic hammer right into you, man!" thing could not get any more obvious, symbolically speaking. Two big manly men, poised on a symbolic river, swinging about phallic symbols and trying to "pierce each others armor" like there is no tomorrow. :spank: Homoeroticism abounds.

Perhaps Cersei's good self control on the big night destroyed the only means of bringing passion back to this icy marriage.

[1234567]

:devil: What do you mean by "it" when you say, "I can see it getting harder if she had yelled out Rhaegar"?

The subsequent beating. By Robert. Of Her.

who was he REALLY jealous of? :uhoh:..... Did Rhaegar steal his woman, or did his woman steal Rhaegar? Hmmmm...

Given the way Rhaegar comes across as a poster boy for the Anime androgenous male..... :leer: ......you have an interesting point......

Edit: Also re "it" and "going harder", because Robert has no problem with domestic abuse and is a disgrace of a human being. Actually that is one of the most unrealistic character relationships in the series: Robert and Ned. What would make Ned friends with Robert in the first place as a person?

[The King in the South]

The subsequent beating. By Robert. Of Her.

Dam. I was hoping it was the other it...

[LordBloodraven]

The subsequent beating. By Robert. Of Her.

Edit: Because he has no problem with domestic abuse and is a disgrace of a human being. Actually that is one of the most unrealistic character relationships in the series: Robert and Ned. What would make Ned friends with Robert in the first place as a person?

I am not convinced with Robert's portrayal. Way too caricatural. The hero of the Trident who drinks and whores the rest of his life while holding on his throne and not giving a crap about his wife/kids/brothers/kingdom.

[Queen Cersei I]

Wow I'm the eldest child and my only sibling is a younger sister. Don't give up the day job.

I'd actually argue that Stannis has classic middle child syndrome. Sandwhiched between two handsome*, charming, popular, easy going brothers who seem to excel at everything he, Stannis, so clearly lacks, he has felt overlooked and unloved his entire life. (With, imo, some justification.)

Middle children often feel disadvantaged; neither as praised/ respected as the elder child, or as indulged, adored, and favored as the youngest. Of course, I am speaking in sweeping generalizations here, and I am by no means suggesting that this is true for all, or even the vast majority, of middle children. However, the fact is that it has been reported that middle children often feel overlooked, unspecial; generally overshadowed by their siblings. This is very much the case for Stannis. The fact that he is indeed far less glamorous, charming, and popular than his two brothers, and posseses a rather prickly, difficult personality makes this complex far, far worse-- and, to an extent, his feelings about being overlooked and unloved somewhat true.

IMO, Stannis losing his parents at age 13 was pretty much the worse thing that could have happened to him. He lost love, validation, and guidance when he needed them most. Though he was apparently sad, lonely, and over serious from the beginning (his dad told Cressen he was bringing home a fool to "teach Stannis to laugh"), I think that a lot of his harsh views on the world and justice were formed after this rather life shattering loss.

Though it is naturally horrible to lose one's parents during one's early teens, imo, this was in a way a far worse blow for Stannis than for Robert. Robert, a handsome, charismatic young man, pretty much embodies all of the qualities that his society most valued in men (he had strength, courage, endurance, skill at arms, toughness, valor, etc.), and thus would not have had such a hard time finding people to love him. Ned Stark and jon Arryn clearly adored Robert and seemed to have given him the sort of love and unconditional devotion one gives to one's family members.

Stannis is a different story, though. A difficult, shy, overly serious, socially awkward, suspicious, lonely, not particularly attractive boy with no great skill at arms would have had a far more difficult time finding a replacement family; people to give him the unconditional love and acceptance and support that he lost with his family. Stannis has been lonely all his life.

But, back to Renly, the younger brother-- IMO, we did hear Stannis's issues with Renly. However, IMO, Renly was far less of an issue for Stannis than Robert. If one of his brothers played a key role in Stannis's self-esteem, psychological development, and sense of self-worth, it was Robert. His comments in nearly every book illustrate that Robert, though dead, continues to play an enormous role in how Stannis views himself. His accomplishments, his failures, what he means to achieve-- all are measured, for some reason, against Robert's. Stannis seems to see Robert as he was, critisize him freely, and yet feel a sort of begrudging love and strange respect for him.

Interestingly, Robert never, ever mentions Stannis, and when Ned mentions Stannis to him, changes the subject. This is fairly sad considering that Stannis mentioned Robert (his past accomplishments, how he, Stannis, should imitate them, how Robert would know what to do, etc.) in nearly every scene he was in in ADWD alone.

[1234567]

Dam. I was hoping it was the other it...

Sorry. :ohwell:

I am not convinced with Robert's portrayal. Way too caricatural. The hero of the Trident who drinks and whores the rest of his life while holding on his throne and not giving a crap about his wife/kids/brothers/kingdom.

:agree: This is a great point. Robert has very little depth to his character. It maybe that the majority of him is seen through the first book, but he does come across as very two dimensional. Unlike Stannis, who has more interesting layers than his proverbial Hand. Neither Robert or Stannis sound like great husbands, but I'd rather be Selyse than Cersei, as I think it is more humiliating to have a husband who whores and sires bastards all over the seven kingdoms, than one who just doesn't sleep with you. Also I would think having your husband not sleeping with you, is far less worse than one who violently rapes you and hurts you in the process IMHO.

Although neither are great to be honest. :thumbsdown: