The most Useless character in ASoIaF

[Cosmic Maintenance Man]

Penny for sure. Hate her!

[Slurms McKenzie]

That All-for-Joffrey bloke....he was pretty useless.....

[Queen Cersei I]

Is anyone else waiting for Jalabhar Xho to jump out of the background and do something awesome/ heroic/ interesting?

Wasted opportunity, with that one. At the very least, he could be making constant wisecracks and fistbumping Tyrion, and/ or shouting "oh, Snaaaaappp!" each and every time somebody insults Cersei, since he's apparently the Westeros equivalent of "the token black guy" archetype.

[digiFemme]

Sansa wasn't saving her own ass when she persuaded Joff not to kill Dontos. That's def. true. But, at the same time, in the text it says that she felt a "giddy courage" and wanted to get on Joffrey's nerves, despite the risk, b/c she hated him so much now [for killing her father and Mordane etc.].

Yes, but she's still pretty much afraid of Joffrey when she begs for Dontos' life- in the text, she still watches his face nervously for signs of anger, inwardly sighs with relief when he seems appeased, and yes, she still prays that whatever she says or does doesn't anger him. Momentary spurts of giddiness at being able to annoy him doesn't change how cautious she still is around him, overall. That said, I honestly think that one can have (in this context) a self serving motive and still be somewhat brave and kind, given his/her capacities. I know it's a contradiction but this is ASOIAF where things aren't that simple.

Sansa is not as badass as Arya, so for her to even speak up to Joffrey for a man she doesn't know is a selfless thing. She's almost always quaking with fear in ACOK and has

no fighting skills (like Jaime, etc)

no flight skills (like Arya)

no power (legion of soldiers/sellswords/bannermen who'd fight for her)

no money

no spy network

no magic

All she has are her songs and stories. It's pathetic, but she tries to make do. Given all that, for her to even speak out for anyone is a big deal, given her passive existence.

I agree that overall she is a sweet girl, but let's be honest, she is also incredibly snobby. I believe that she calmed the frightened ladies whom Cersei left because a) she felt it was someone's duty, and no one else was stepping up to the task; b.) she wanted to show herself as a better woman than Cersei by calming down the hens; and c) she only really comforted Lancel, and I think that's b/c Lancel derided Cersei for letting Joff leave the field like a coward. She prob agreed with that, and also she had always viewed him as "comely". We know that even in ADWD, a man's looks affects how she acts towards him. But, I listed her reasons for trying to comfort the ladies in order of importance in her own mind, as I see it.

She wanted to show she was better than Cersei, but perhaps not in a 'Hehehe, I am so much better than you, everyone look at me!!!' kind of way, but a 'I was taught that this is how a queen should behave- she should comfort her people when they need it, and since you and no one else will do it...I will even if I'm scared' kind of way. Sansa is a character who was pretty much shaped by the courtesies and ladylike training highborn women of her time received. Can't really separate that aspect of her character just yet. I suspect a lot of highborn women like her had a similar outlook, which can be viewed as snobbish and somewhat selfish but doesn't signify that they aren't capable of compassion or caring.

The Kind of like how people of society would note if someone had a title of lord or earl, etc.

How is it that Arya was able to see right through Joffrey, while Sansa was not, for example? Because, like I said, Sansa was very shallow and only saw Joff's appearance, despite multiple instances of him acting like a total psychopath. Arya, who was younger, saw right through him even tho she spent much less time with him than Sansa did. She also saw Cersei's true nature.

True, she judges people by appearances which isn't a good thing...it's also a part of her learning curve, GRRM wants to show us a character who is incredibly influenced by how she was brought up (and all the ideals that come with it) and have- one by one, these ideals shattered and for her to turn into a better person because of it. At least, that's how I interpreted her character. Arya doesn't start of with the same ideals but she has her own story to tell.

Comparing them doesn't work because they're clearly made out to be different people, as different as 'night and day' as you say. Their observation skills are different, the way they pick up on things is different and also, the way they are influenced by their upbringing is different (Arya is a rebel and not everyone is, so whatever ladylike BS she was taught she rejected whereas Sansa embraced it) For me, it's not so much an age thing but a personality thing. Also, if I compare real people to both, I know a lot more young people like Sansa than Arya.

Surely, at the start she wasn't as sharp or as bright as her little sister- doesn't mean she can't get there eventually.

It's particularly annoying when she always notes that someone is a "bastard" ("her bastard half-brother Jon", "Mya Stone was a bastard", etc.) I think it's a good form of poetic justice that now she has to be the bastard, even tho she's still treated like a de facto lady.

I don't know, it strikes me as similar to how Catelyn noted that Brienne was an ugly woman, and pitied her for it- which I don't think was cruel, per se. More like 'Oh, from what I know, the world is a cruel place to women of no beauty so I feel sorry for how I think people treat you.' I don't think Sansa has anything against bastards; her noting one's status and place in life again strikes me as how a highborn lady would think- it doesn't necessarily imply any ill feeling. In fact, it reminds me of a lot of the books I've read in a regency setting, where people's titles were often noted in elite society. Snobbish, but doesn't indicate that you're a bad person.

She killed to survive, and she used her hate of terrible people as a sort of "fuel" to keep her going through the incredibly tough times.

Both Arya and Sansa are my favorite characters. I certainly don't fault Arya for how she turned out though I don't necessarily agree with all her actions...same with Sansa's behavior. Point is, they both have to rely on what they have to keep going. Arya has her training under Syrio Forel, her ability to slip in and out without notice, her tough demeanor to get by. Sansa doesn't have that but she has her own set of gifts- her courtesies (which can be kind of fake, but can also be used for political reasons when you think about it) and ladylike behavior to survive. Whether we're talking about having an angry vengeful disposition or a snobbish ladylike one, it's part of who they are.

Also, she may not have known she was betraying state secrets, but she certainly knew she was doing something wrong. In GOT she reflects that she had never felt so "wicked" as she did the day she went to Cersei and told her of Ned's plans. She knew what she was doing was wrong, but she did it anyway.

Well, yes- kind of like the way sneaking out at night to see a boy is wrong, but a lot of young women do it anyway. I think one's perception of wrong should be taken into account and is very important. If Sansa knew the cost of her actions and still did it, it would be a different story. Knowing something is wrong and still doing it, applies to you and I just as much as her.

People know that if she hadn't had so much tragedy befall her, she would have had the same immature views as she had in the first book.

Isn't that hard to predict? If that specific set of tragedies didn't befall the Stark family, can we say that there's no possibility other events (maybe not as nerve wracking but meaningful and significant in a more subtle way) could have happened? There's always the chance something else would have happened and she would have matured. Kind of like how a lot of us mature from being spoiled selfish youngsters. Also, can we not say this for other characters as well? If Jaimie Lannister hadn't been imprisoned in the dungeons at Riverrun and ultimately separated from Cersei's clutches, would his views on life and attachment to his twin still have been there? Not attacking Jaimie- just making a point that this goes for a lot of other characters too.

[digiFemme]

That doesn't make him not a pervert. Just shows how perverted previous societies were.

Yes, although to be fair it's also another gray area. In Sense and Sensibility, Marianne Dashwood was only 15 or 16 when Colonel Brandon fell in love with her and yet Austen portrays Brandon as a good guy. In Dangerous Liaisons, Cecil de Valounge was 15 and was being married to a 36 year old lord. Which she understandably found disgusting but was viewed as ho hum by the rest.

[Blackfyre Bob]

I think Rickon is eventually going to prove more useful... possibly as the Stark heir? and as for Penny, she adds some insight into what commoner dwarfs in the rest of the world have to deal with. I suppose she is pretty useless though, as Tyrion already has to put up with so much BS... but at least he's rich

[dark sister]

Yes, but she's still pretty much afraid of Joffrey when she begs for Dontos' life- in the text, she still watches his face nervously for signs of anger, inwardly sighs with relief when he seems appeased, and yes, she still prays that whatever she says or does doesn't anger him. Momentary spurts of giddiness at being able to annoy him doesn't change how cautious she still is around him, overall. That said, I honestly think that one can have (in this context) a self serving motive and still be somewhat brave and kind, given his/her capacities. I know it's a contradiction but this is ASOIAF where things aren't that simple.

Sansa is not as badass as Arya, so for her to even speak up to Joffrey for a man she doesn't know is a selfless thing. She's almost always quaking with fear in ACOK and has

no fighting skills (like Jaime, etc)

no flight skills (like Arya)

no power (legion of soldiers/sellswords/bannermen who'd fight for her)

no money

no spy network

no magic

All she has are her songs and stories. It's pathetic, but she tries to make do. Given all that, for her to even speak out for anyone is a big deal, given her passive existence.

Indeed...I don't think we disagree here...?

She wanted to show she was better than Cersei, but perhaps not in a 'Hehehe, I am so much better than you, everyone look at me!!!' kind of way, but a 'I was taught that this is how a queen should behave- she should comfort her people when they need it, and since you and no one else will do it...I will even if I'm scared' kind of way. Sansa is a character who was pretty much shaped by the courtesies and ladylike training highborn women of her time received. Can't really separate that aspect of her character just yet. I suspect a lot of highborn women like her had a similar outlook, which can be viewed as snobbish and somewhat selfish but doesn't signify that they aren't capable of compassion or caring.

The Kind of like how people of society would note if someone had a title of lord or earl, etc.

Again, I don't disagree. I feel like you kind of just expounded on my first point when I said that "it was her duty". Not that there's anything wrong with that.

True, she judges people by appearances which isn't a good thing...it's also a part of her learning curve, GRRM wants to show us a character who is incredibly influenced by how she was brought up (and all the ideals that come with it) and have- one by one, these ideals shattered and for her to turn into a better person because of it. At least, that's how I interpreted her character. Arya doesn't start of with the same ideals but she has her own story to tell.

Comparing them doesn't work because they're clearly made out to be different people, as different as 'night and day' as you say. Their observation skills are different, the way they pick up on things is different and also, the way they are influenced by their upbringing is different (Arya is a rebel and not everyone is, so whatever ladylike BS she was taught she rejected whereas Sansa embraced it) For me, it's not so much an age thing but a personality thing. Also, if I compare real people to both, I know a lot more young people like Sansa than Arya.

Surely, at the start she wasn't as sharp or as bright as her little sister- doesn't mean she can't get there eventually.

I wasn't the one who compared them, another user did. I was responding to her/his post, and like you, I didn't think it was a good idea to compare them either. She/he also started talking about age, etc. etc.

I don't know, it strikes me as similar to how Catelyn noted that Brienne was an ugly woman, and pitied her for it- which I don't think was cruel, per se. More like 'Oh, from what I know, the world is a cruel place to women of no beauty so I feel sorry for how I think people treat you.' I don't think Sansa has anything against bastards; her noting one's status and place in life again strikes me as how a highborn lady would think- it doesn't necessarily imply any ill feeling. In fact, it reminds me of a lot of the books I've read in a regency setting, where people's titles were often noted in elite society. Snobbish, but doesn't indicate that you're a bad person.

I agree that Sansa gets a lot of her views on people from Catelyn, but I actually understand what Catelyn meant when she felt pity for Brienne. Most people say "omg what a bitch" but a REAL bitch would have had a thought like "that is so disgusting, what kind of woman would think she could be a knight...ugh she is so ugly." I have had the same sorts of thoughts when I've seen someone esp. homely or, say, in a wretched state, and it's a humbling experience which does fill me with pity. I think that pity is a very misunderstood word. Pity does not equal contempt. Pity is a feeling of deep compassion for someone who is in a sorrier situation than you are. I wish people would understand that about the scene. I kind of view Catelyn as a fully matured Sansa. I hope this is the kind of woman Sansa will become, in time.

Both Arya and Sansa are my favorite characters. I certainly don't fault Arya for how she turned out though I don't necessarily agree with all her actions...same with Sansa's behavior. Point is, they both have to rely on what they have to keep going. Arya has her training under Syrio Forel, her ability to slip in and out without notice, her tough demeanor to get by. Sansa doesn't have that but she has her own set of gifts- her courtesies (which can be kind of fake, but can also be used for political reasons when you think about it) and ladylike behavior to survive. Whether we're talking about having an angry vengeful disposition or a snobbish ladylike one, it's part of who they are.

I don't fault Arya either. I was responding to another poster who said that basically Arya is losing her humanity by killing and joining the FM.

Well, yes- kind of like the way sneaking out at night to see a boy is wrong, but a lot of young women do it anyway. I think one's perception of wrong should be taken into account and is very important. If Sansa knew the cost of her actions and still did it, it would be a different story. Knowing something is wrong and still doing it, applies to you and I just as much as her.

I disagree; I think that this was a little different from sneaking out to see a boy. If Sansa had done something like that, no one else would get in trouble from it. By revealing all to Cersei, she was possibly endangering her father, who plannted the escape, Arya, Septa Mordane, Syrio Forel, and Stark guardsmen. By sneaking out to see a boy, the worst that could happen is getting raped, or having sex and getting pregnant -- all of which is kind of against Sansa's character. I personally believe that if Lady had been alive at that point, she may have led Sansa out of that disaster before it began...but that is only speculation on my part.

Isn't that hard to predict? If that specific set of tragedies didn't befall the Stark family, can we say that there's no possibility other events (maybe not as nerve wracking but meaningful and significant in a more subtle way) could have happened? There's always the chance something else would have happened and she would have matured. Kind of like how a lot of us mature from being spoiled selfish youngsters. Also, can we not say this for other characters as well? If Jaimie Lannister hadn't been imprisoned in the dungeons at Riverrun and ultimately separated from Cersei's clutches, would his views on life and attachment to his twin still have been there? Not attacking Jaimie- just making a point that this goes for a lot of other characters too.

Yes it's hard to predict. I still think she would have changed due to other life-shaping experiences, but definitely not as quickly. It's human nature to stay the same after a certain period, personality-wise. Part of the reason it's so hard to treat people with personality disorders is because the personality is so intractable after a certain age. People tend to mature and change into the person they will be during adolescence, but after that, only an effort of will can stop bad habits. So I imagine that if Sansa had stayed in Winterfell during her formative years, she would have changed/matured, definitely, but not necessarily for the better, because she would have been treated the same. Don't get me wrong, I do not think that Sansa is a bad person at all -- unlike my opinion of Cersei -- she was just an annoying person. I'm not sure what point you were trying to make, but I just looked at the number of posts you've made and realized you're new here, so I understand that you had some corrections to make on what I said. So welcome to the boards.

[Revan Baratheon]

Is anyone else waiting for Jalabhar Xho to jump out of the background and do something awesome/ heroic/ interesting?

Wasted opportunity, with that one. At the very

least, he could be making constant wisecracks and fistbumping Tyrion, and/ or shouting "oh, Snaaaaappp!" each and every time somebody insults Cersei, since he's apparently the Westeros equivalent of "the token black guy"

archetype.

Yea...he's so useless...why the producers cast him and NOT TULLY!!! grrr :bang:

I want edmure and brynden dammit!! Dont give a shit about reeds...except meera...cause i think she's kinda hot..

[verona stark]

So we all have characters we despise,characters we appreciate,"meh" characters and "grey" characters.There are also characters who are generally boring and painful to read but serve some purpose towards the completion of the plot.

And then there is that one completely useleas character that has no impact on the story watsoever,usually relegated as a pathetic plot device,can be easily subsituted by another..

I want you guys to tell me that person:for me it was penny tyrions "soulmate" gods wat an aweful character,we already know tyrion can be good to women(sansa) so why was this character there?

Excuse me - but what? Tyrion is one of the worst people in the entire series when it comes to women. He's horribly mysoginistic. He gets drunk and violently has sex with hookers, treating them like garbage. Even his treatment of Penny and comments towards her are awful. Yes, he's brutally honest with her so that she'll toughen up, but he hates her for what she is: a dwarf. He might be one as well, but he was raised in the luxary, wealth, and power of Casterly Rock and the Lannister name. Having Penny around serves to remind Tyrion consistently that he is a dwarf as well, and now he has no power to his name. I do like Penny - and I do like Tyrion, perhaps with the exception of ADWD and his "Where do whores go?" routine.

Also, I don't think Quentyn was that useless either, but that might be because I have/had an incredible soft spot for him. I was heartbroken when he died. The poor kid was trying so desperately to make his father proud and help his country when he clearly didn't have what it took. He stuck it out, did everything he could, and died for it. For me, that was a tragic hero story.

I don't like to think that any characters are useless - I want them to have reasons - but for now, if I have to think of one, I'd probably say... Robert Arryn (although his death would trigger some things in the Vale) or Aeron Damphair. That guy is a nut job. He's just running around and no one knows what the hell he's doing except for preaching against Euron. That's...cool.

[digiFemme]

Indeed...I don't think we disagree here...?

I'm glad you can see beyond Sansa's flaws and acknowledge that she is getting better as the series progresses. But the impression I got after reading the trail of posts where-

Zalim said Sansa was a useless character, and Raksha replied that she wasn't useless because she saved a man's life (among other things)...then Zalim said that she wasn't saving their lives, she was 'saving her own ass.'

Your post that came after that, seemed to imply that yes, perhaps it was good she spoke up for Dontos and that she wasn't 'saving her own ass', but at the same time, she had a motive...she wanted to annoy Joffrey. My point was that whatever elation she felt didn't make it any less an act of selflessness because she was still overall, afraid of him. So, I just disagreed with how her wanting to piss him off was of any significance, given that she was still pretty much terrified of him and his rages- and because of that, that instance can be counted as an act of (at least trying to) save another person's life. Not saving her ass, as the other poster said. :)

I wasn't the one who compared them, another user did. I was responding to her/his post, and like you, I didn't think it was a good idea to compare them either. She/he also started talking about age, etc. etc.

Sorry, I wasn't implying that you were the one who originally brought up the age factor. You and I both agree that they shouldn't be compared. But in your first post, you said you couldn't understand why Sansa defenders used age when Arya who was two years younger was etc, etc...it struck me as a bit of a comparison itself. Just pointing out that Arya's advantages over Sansa probably shouldn't be used as a rebuttal to those who cry 'age' because they're different people- hence, my point about personality and all.

After all that, I'm not entirely sure we can discount age either...for one thing, even if Sansa is two years older that Arya, one can still argue that she has a different maturity level. Even people who grow up in the same household mature (age) at different rates, too. Another thing for consideration.

Again, I don't disagree. I feel like you kind of just expounded on my first point when I said that "it was her duty". Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Yup, I'm not entirely disagreeing ...it's just that, the same with how the posts went above- Raksha brought up Sansa's comforting the women in response to Zalim's saying she was useless and only thought of herself. Your post thereafter implied she had a selfish motive and just wanted to show she was a better person that Cersei...just wanted to address I had a different view on this one thing. To me, it wasn't a 'I am a better person than you' but a 'What you're doing is wrong, so I'll do what i think you should be doing as a queen...'

It just sounded to me like you were saying that Sansa's actions aren't entirely good because she always has a bad motive- in keeping with her spoiled, snobby character...IMHO, Sansa is spoiled and she has her moments of selfishness, but for those acts - we should be giving greater weight to how she didn't really want to do them in the first place (even if there was a self serving factor to a degree); recall that at that time during Blackwater, all she wanted to do was go back to bed.

I disagree; I think that this was a little different from sneaking out to see a boy. If Sansa had done something like that, no one else would get in trouble from it. By revealing all to Cersei, she was possibly endangering her father, who plannted the escape, Arya, Septa Mordane, Syrio Forel, and Stark guardsmen. By sneaking out to see a boy, the worst that could happen is getting raped, or having sex and getting pregnant -- all of which is kind of against Sansa's character.

To clarify- I'm not saying that they are the same situations...only that to Sansa, they are. She had no idea what the consequences were when she did that- we do, so her sneaking out to tell Cersei (who she thought was a good person) so she can be with her 'love' Joffrey forever and ever and ever is (again, to her) like a young woman sneaking out for her true love. Only pointing out that this view on the situation clearly shows she isn't a malicious character who would do something while fully knowing the consequences.

I like Sansa myself. I think relative stupidity (compared to brighter Arya, etc.) is the only thing I fault her for at this point in the series.

Yes it's hard to predict. I still think she would have changed due to other life-shaping experiences, but definitely not as quickly. It's human nature to stay the same after a certain period, personality-wise. Part of the reason it's so hard to treat people with personality disorders is because the personality is so intractable after a certain age. People tend to mature and change into the person they will be during adolescence, but after that, only an effort of will can stop bad habits. So I imagine that if Sansa had stayed in Winterfell during her formative years, she would have changed/matured, definitely, but not necessarily for the better, because she would have been treated the same. Don't get me wrong, I do not think that Sansa is a bad person at all -- unlike my opinion of Cersei -- she was just an annoying person.

It kind of depends...I know people past their 30's who change and become more humble simply because their financial situation has changed (not even because they become poor* but because they're not as rich as they were before); I know women who become street smart simply after having had a manupulative mother in law/in laws or an unfaithful husband. I think it's reasonable enough to say that if all of that hadn't happened and Sansa had been married and relocated elsewhere like ladies of her kind usually do...she would be more exposed to the realities of life. I don't think something as tragic as what has happened is needed for her to change...but then again, that's because I truly think of her a good person. Just spoiled, and selfish. But good and genuinely capable of compassion. Life has it's ways of rearing it's head even if you are sheltered.

Or maybe GRRM made her that way because he wanted all of that to happen to her...

I don't know...I just find it hard to believe that she'll become a bad person if it all didn't happen. She'll have her moments of selfishness, but nothing so drastic as for us to put her on the same level as the morally derelict.

I'm not sure what point you were trying to make, but I just looked at the number of posts you've made and realized you're new here, so I understand that you had some corrections to make on what I said. So welcome to the boards.

New, but a long time lurker - thanks for the welcom :) My replies are towards yours, but they're based on my interpretation after reading a long line of posts (in this thread) related to Sansa. I realy got the impression you were saying you could understand those who hate Sansa...I do to, but I disagree (with them) on several things- and feel they judge her way too harshly. Your post started off saying something like 'maybe the haters see her that way because' Just saying that I don't see it the way Sansa haters see it at all. On those specific things.

[Vastro]

I'll stick with pov's as I don't remember names well.

Arys oakheart - Useless, he did only two things getting fucked by arriane and getting killed by areo hotah.

Daario naharis - Useless, fucking dany and bragging.

Some of you mentioned rickon he's just a kid he was 3 in AGOT that's why we don't get to see him often besides what do you expect him to do ride shagy and kill freys and boltons. and areoh hotah at least he killed arys oakheart, I believe we'll see him killing some more. and the sand snakes seems a dangerous bunch, now that dorne is making it's move we might get to see them do some awesome killing stuff I guess.

[Lady Olenna]

I know that Penny and Damphair have uses but I have to give them my vote since I cringe when I read their names.

[Call me Odie]

I'm not holding my breath for Penny to become the Third Mrs. Tyrion Lannister, or even to survive the next book, though.

Ohh God, please NO!!!! :D

[Raksha the Demon]

A Tyrion/Penny marriage would be the last thing that either character needs!

[wyman's cook]

penny, did have a use, even though ,unfortunately, that was to make tyrion useless :(..

anyway..there are no "useless" characters..we can't judge for that untill the end, when all will have settled...and even then, i'm pretty sure that martin will have tied all the loose ends, as he does seem to enjoy interwieving tie-ins..for example, even maester marwyn and mirri maz dur (?) connected..why ? who knows ? maybe he'll make something out of all these loose ends, maybe he will not..we'll just have to wait and see

EDIT: and then Jalabhar Xho gets mentioned some posts below and i totally change my mind.. lol

what's with him anyway ?

[Reeahlia Sand]

Is anyone else waiting for Jalabhar Xho to jump out of the background and do something awesome/ heroic/ interesting?

Wasted opportunity, with that one. At the very least, he could be making constant wisecracks and fistbumping Tyrion, and/ or shouting "oh, Snaaaaappp!" each and every time somebody insults Cersei, since he's apparently the Westeros equivalent of "the token black guy" archetype.

Yes I hope he comes back and does something so mindfuckingly awesome. He may have already, we just didn't recognize him.

[Fred Baratheon]

Not sure what purpose Pyp and Grenn have other than as a tribute to LOTR's Merry and Pippen. If ever they could have made themselves useful it would have been at the end of,Dance with Dragons.

[Buster]

I hope Penny is the prologue POV in Winds.

[boojam]

I think Rickon is eventually going to prove more useful... possibly as the Stark heir? and as for Penny, she adds some insight into what commoner dwarfs in the rest of the world have to deal with. I suppose she is pretty useless though, as Tyrion already has to put up with so much BS... but at least he's rich

Rickon is like the Others.

In 5 novels we still don't know squat what the Others are or what they are after.

If Rickon is important to the overall plot, seems he is going to have to do some growing, like putting 5 or so years on him.

George has two novels to explain all this and tons of other stuff, I don't think he can do it.

[Woman of War]

I do not see Sansa as useless character at all, on the contrary, I 'd predict a huge plot importance for her. Though not necessarily as actively acting character but as Most Important Pawn but maybe still pawn.

Of course I can feel empathy with a little girl that had to watch her father executed and then had to look at his head - the worst that ever happened to her and everything else, even sexual assaults, are imo less horrible compared to that event, in its horror hard to imagine. And I already feel the shock when one day she will realize that she unknowingly and naively had a part in it. The worst imaginable fate for a child. And the realization may have an enormous impact on her especially if used by LF to manipulate her.

Apart from the different sexual assaults, two guys refrained from raping her, one with knife at her throat already, all her family murdered.....Who would not feel empathy!

But what is Sansa's part in the story?

I see a certain development in Sansa's personality from total dreamy naivety towards wrapping herself into the protection of growing emotional numbness, the example might be her very detached concerns about Robin. That goes along with more general awareness of small things and signs, she develops a certain selective perceptiveness. And she clearly has more survival skills and cleverness at the expense of "goodness" in the last book . She has to! She cannot continue to dance through the storyline as a running gag of a fairytale princess, as a quotation magically transferred from whatever childrens' book. Martin should better do something about it otherwise her character loses all credibility. But the author has started with that already!

The Sansa character has an enormous potential as story catalyst. Her chapters are immensely valuable for their insight into background views, a different angle at political events where the reader is not supposed to know everything. Having a LF POV would tell us far too much, would reveal secrets that are to be unveiled much later in the books, so we get the outside look through Sansa's POV. This is her purpose as Martin's story tool. So she cannot be too fleshed out as a person herself, she has to stay an observer, her withdrawal into herself gives Martin the room to put all those important events into her POV without distracting the reader by too many activites from Sansa herself.

Apart from that her POVs are often wonderfully written - snow castle, so much magical winter beauty, the descent from The Eyrie and her growing courage in it.

I hope she will not end as a gift package served to the winner of the game. Another future story development for her would be as important villain accomplice: the Ice Princess, Galadriel if she had taken the ring, Sansa as instrument used for bringing desaster and destruction, warging into a dragon, burnig down Kings Landing ...... something like that. Though she might be the metaphorically Virginal Queen of some plot deciding purity, Arwen-like (without Aragorn so far, virgin, remember. Although Aragorn-Arwen sex must have been the least erotic archetype couple in fantasy history imo ;) ) That would grant her an at least somewhat independent identity. Though her downward spiral may only have started and Martin will force her to eat dirt, freeze and starve or worse like so many other characters, to end her lady dreams and her clueless nobility arrogance. I can see her in dirty rags, humiliated, damaged but so much wiser. And that would mean taking her seriously and not only as plot device.

Or Martin grants her a future as the simple girl she is so far, which certainly would solve her personal problems, make her maximum happy, with garden and doggies.

Edit: Penny may be slowing down the story, she may be condescendingly written only to develop Tyrion's character, she may be annoyingly naive and passive - but I can't bring myself to dislike her!