The Gravedigging Hound - Complete analysis

[josh112233]

wouldnt brienne notice if the gravedigger had a half burned face?

[A wilding]

It was established that Brienne could not tell that one of the brothers had had his ear bitten off and was wearing bloodstained bandages over it, until the man took his cowl off. So it would seem entirely possible that Sandor's burns could be covered by his cowl.

(As indeed the first post of this thread says.)

[Cas Stark]

I do think its the Hound, and much as I love his character, I hate that he, too, was brought back from the dead via a fake cliffhanger and multiple unreliable accounts of his death.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Sandor is not the only one hiding out on Quiet Isle, So is Ser Arhur Dayne, Ser whent and rhe 5 northern lords who accompanied Ned to the Tower of Joy,remember then brothers who had thier faces covered, they are waiting for the 7th ruby. Just kidding.

LOL. Tyrek Lannister is there too.

[Bad Hound!]

I do think its the Hound, and much as I love his character, I hate that he, too, was brought back from the dead via a fake cliffhanger and multiple unreliable accounts of his death.

It wasn't brought back from the dead as he never physically died in the first place, unlike Catelyn or Beric. It was hardly a fake cliffhanger to let him rot when Arya left him, there was nothing to say he was dying for sure, just that he was left wounded and unable to move, hardly the same thing.

[Cas Stark]

It wasn't brought back from the dead as he never physically died in the first place, unlike Catelyn or Beric. It was hardly a fake cliffhanger to let him rot when Arya left him, there was nothing to say he was dying for sure, just that he was left wounded and unable to move, hardly the same thing.

What about the brother who tells Brienne he is dead? Or did I dream that? Doesn't the guy say he died and he burried him? Eh, too many tricky tricks. If he had left that part out...and we had been left with the Hound seeming to die...and then Brienne had glimpsed the guy digging the grave, that would be one thing...that's dropping hints for your audience. Not purposely misleading them and then changing it up.

[1234567]

What about the brother who tells Brienne he is dead? Or did I dream that? Doesn't the guy say he died and he burried him? Eh, too many tricky tricks. If he had left that part out...and we had been left with the Hound seeming to die...and then Brienne had glimpsed the guy digging the grave, that would be one thing...that's dropping hints for your audience. Not purposely misleading them and then changing it up.

Only the chapter where the EB says the hound died is the same chapter we see the gravedigger in, so it's hardly a trick death.

[Bad Hound!]

yeah, I see your point - the burying part was a bit too misleading

[Cas Stark]

Only the chapter where the EB says the hound died is the same chapter we see the gravedigger in, so it's hardly a trick death.

Maybe its cumulative "you thought he/she was dead, but they aren't" fatigue.

I feel it has been done too many times, and there are still at least two books to go. And we got the Jon Snow cliffhanger, which will be either near death or death and resurection of some kind. Plus, who knows who else could pop up? After Conington and "Aegon" came out of nowhere, anyone could show up. People even think Robb Stark is alive, that to me is a sign that the dead not dead has been done too much.

Benjen Stark is still out there too, somewhere, doubtless he is not dead either.

[KOM]

Maybe its cumulative "you thought he/she was dead, but they aren't" fatigue.

I hate that he, too, was brought back from the dead via a fake cliffhanger and multiple unreliable accounts of his death.

Even given all the Stranger details, and this well put together account in the OP, I resisted. Getting wounded and dying seemed pretty "gritty/realistic" to me. Seemed like there would be multiple other potential war survivors that could wash up on QI.

However, I think the following pieces helps seal it for me. (I looked for a mention of this earlier in the thread and didn't see it; apologies if it was already mentioned.)

As Arya rides away from the wounded Hound, her last words are “You should have saved my mother.”

Just before that, during his final rant, Sandor mentions Sansas, the pretty bird, "And

the little bird, your pretty sister, I stood there in my white cloak and let them beat her. I took the

bloody song, she never gave it."

The song Sansa sings the Hound is The Mother, text here (taken from the UnKiss wiki http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/UnKiss)

Mother song: ^[1] “ "Gentle Mother, font of mercy,

save our sons from war, we pray,

stay the swords and stay the arrows,

let them know a better day.

Gentle Mother, strength of women,

help our daughters through this fray,

soothe the wrath and tame the fury,

teach us all a kinder way". ^[1]

Thematically, saving sons from war, soothing wrath and taming fury all could tie into a moment of change for Sandor.

Right after Sandor mentions Sansa, he goes on about how he should've done grisly things to her, which goes against this taming idea.. but maybe Arya's mention of "mother" after that helps trigger the memory of the song.

This whole thing was tipped off by Tom o'Sevens song about the girl from Gulltown which foreshadows the UnKiss (which I tripped upon on another post).

Rapsie:

When Arya first meets Tom O'Sevenstreams in ASOS he is singing the following:

Quote

"Off to Gulltown to see the fair maid, heigh-ho, heigh-ho..."

"I'll steal a sweet kiss with the point of my blade, heigh-ho, heigh-ho."

"I'll make her my love and we'll rest in the shade, heigh-ho, heigh-ho.

By the end of the book Sansa is posing as Alyane, a maid from Gulltown and imagining a kiss taken by Sandor at Knifepoint.

If that kiss/song exchange was so important as to be foreshadowed by a song, then maybe it helps explain how it could be important enough to Sandor to bring him some peace.

[IRON BANK]

yeah pretty much gathered that from the evidence of the horse and desription that this is the hound trying to get his mind right.

[The Others Take Ya]

@Cosmic Maintenance Man: Love your post and your analysis! Just wanted to point out what may be another tidbit of evidence from ASOS. From when Sandor is preparing the boiling wine for Arya to pour on his wounds:

“Anyone wants to find us, all they need to do is follow my blood. Water and wood. But bring me that wineskin first.”

When he got the fire going, Sandor propped up his helm in the flames, emptied half the wineskin into it, and collapsed back against a jut of moss-covered stone as if he never meant to rise again.

So not only was he found by the Elder Brother in the woods, who is really good at healing people, but he still has half a wineskin of wine that the Elder Brother could use to do another treatment of boiling wine on him.

Solid theory and I'm inclined to believe it. Would like to offer a couple counterpoints though:

-Didn't they mention there was a ferry that ran from Saltpans to the QI? While it still may have been somewhat difficult to control the Stranger/Driftwood on the ferry, that would have been a better option that walking the twisty path. Since the twisty path could be avoided, I don't think the difficulty of walking it can be offered up as evidence.

-Rawney and Gillam were both injured by Stranger in separate incidents. Wouldn't you think that they would learn after the first time that he is dangerous and let Sandor handle him? Or even before the first incident, Sandor would have told them to not go near the horse.

IIRC wasn't one of the reasons one of the other brothers was approaching Stranger because they were going to geld him? I doubt it would be a procedure that Sandor would agree on, much less agree to do himself on his loyal horse. That's a conversation I would have loved to see in the books!

"You cut his balls off and I'll bugger you with them! #&$@^(^&^!!!"

edit: sentence structure, for clarity

[Khal Rhaggat - Cart King]

The name "Driftwood" is an abomination.

When Elder Brother said "When I died" I sighed and rolled my eyes at the obviousness of it all. But then, I have a hypersensitive Hound-dar, and was looking for him, so that may just be me.

I do think that when all of the evidence is laid out as you've presented it, OP, it's pretty hard to dismiss the theory.

Seriously, I would even have thought, ok, this sucks, but maybe the poor bastard has had it and will just stay on the QI and live in peace and harmony...maybe I could have considered that if not for two or three things.

A. Every little thing out of his mouth ( not the vomit) and action of his in the infamous "Bedroom Scene."

B. How distraught, unhinged, regretful, and disturbed he sounds when Arya leaves him regarding his Sansa memoirs.

C. Pretty much his non-stop blustering and thinking about Sansa in books 2 and 3.

Who knows what is going to happen, but I don't feel he will just stay in the QI forever, knowing she is out there somewhere after all he's said and done. Way too passionate about her for that, for good or bad.

I don't get the purpose of having him alive. What does he still have left to do in the series. With people like Moqorro or Victarion, they have a purpose to get Dany to KL or to teach her about Rhollor, but what good does keeping the Hound alive serve.

[MasterJack]

I don't get the purpose of having him alive. What does he still have left to do in the series. With people like Moqorro or Victarion, they have a purpose to get Dany to KL or to teach her about Rhollor, but what good does keeping the Hound alive serve.

He could:

-Save Sansa in a heroic way since she wanted a Floran so much.

-Kill unGregor since he stated this is his job

-Save Arya's mother(aka kill her for real), since she became a crazy vengefull zombie with no heart and Arya last word to him: You should have saved my mother.

[Khal Rhaggat - Cart King]

@ Cosmic - have you read this? http://www.towerofth...the_/index.html

:)

He obviously has since it is verbatim in several spots...

[Guynemer]

He could:

-Kill unGregor since he stated this is his job

This seems the obvious answer to me. Sandor is the valonqar. He will be the Faith's champion in Cersei's trial by combat.

[Warsaw]

Hi. Personally I believe (and hope) Sandor is alive. The theory just fits.

There was another tiny detail that caught my attention while reading, maybe you'll agree with me in that it supports the theory. It's the reaction of the Brother that receives them in QI:

“Lady Brienne is a warrior maid,” confided Septon Meribald, “hunting for the Hound.”

“Aye?” Narbert seemed taken aback. “To what end?”

Brienne touched Oathkeeper’s hilt. “His,” she said.

The proctor studied her. “You are... brawny for a woman, it is true, but... mayhaps I should take you up to Elder Brother. He will have seen you crossing the mud. Come.”

His reaction is definitely weird, too careful. He specifically asks why they want to meet the Hound, and doesn't seem to like the answer at all. I don't think he would've taken them to the Elder Brother so soon if they hadn't been searching for him. I think he knows Sandor is there and decides that the EB should tell them what story he saw fit. Because if the Hound was really dead, he would've just said "oh, sorry, you're late, he died already", or something.

On the other hand, I've seen a lot of comments about him finally slaying his brother (and some theories are really good). Well...

I dreamt of a maid at a feast, with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow.

This is a prophecy by the Ghost of High Heart. We know for a fact that the maid is Sansa; some like to believe the Giant is Gregor. It might not be, as there are many other possibilities, but it's fun to think about. For more info about that: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies/Entry/1823

[Khal Rhaggat - Cart King]

Hi. Personally I believe (and hope) Sandor is alive. The theory just fits.

There was another tiny detail that caught my attention while reading, maybe you'll agree with me in that it supports the theory. It's the reaction of the Brother that receives them in QI:

His reaction is definitely weird, too careful. He specifically asks why they want to meet the Hound, and doesn't seem to like the answer at all. I don't think he would've taken them to the Elder Brother so soon if they hadn't been searching for him. I think he knows Sandor is there and decides that the EB should tell them what story he saw fit. Because if the Hound was really dead, he would've just said "oh, sorry, you're late, he died already", or something.

On the other hand, I've seen a lot of comments about him finally slaying his brother (and some theories are really good). Well...

This is a prophecy by the Ghost of High Heart. We know for a fact that the maid is Sansa; some like to believe the Giant is Gregor. It might not be, as there are many other possibilities, but it's fun to think about. For more info about that: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies/Entry/1823

Thanks for this link. Very interesting stuff...! But, if Gregor is the giant, then Sansa kills him and the hound doesn't need to be alive anymore anyway. That would kill the Gravedigger theory. The only reason that it makes sense for Sandor to be alive is to kill Robert Strong, which means the Giant is LF. Otherwise, this all falls apart.

[Warsaw]

Why? Sandor isn't the Hound anymore. He doesn't live for the sake of killing his brother now. He's healing, and part of healing is leaving that obsession behind, why would he be in QI as a novice if it were otherwise? I think it makes perfect sense that he keeps on living without killing Gregor.

[Theda Baratheon]

you don't even know how much this theory means to me, haha.