Nausicaä Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Could Selmy not want to discourage Dany from going to Weteros.Would she be discouraged from going to Westeros once she hears what her father did? I don't think she would, since she's been raised with her family taking back the throne in mind, and Barristan would realize that. It's more likely that Dany would want to go and set things right or whatever than be confused and consider giving up her quest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 It wasn'T Aerys it was Tywin who brought peace to the people at the beginning of his reign. It is just people always praise the King even if he didn't do anything at all. Just like those who remember fondly Roberts dais prais Robert , despite the fact that he didn't do much, it was jon Arryn who was managing the Kingdom. How did he sais? The king shits the Hand cleans it up?And Aerys did kill countless people. It wasn't just Brandon and Rickard he killed, but all of their entourage as well.Brandon and Rickard's entourage was made of countless people? :PMy point is the OP made it sound as if pretty much everyone in Westeros hated Aerys and wanted to see him dead, when that wasn't the case at all. He angered some of the most powerful families and was overthrown as a result, that's it. Thre's no indication he was hated by the smallfolk, and plenty of nobles supported him in the rebellion too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevumar Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 My point is the OP made it sound as if pretty much everyone in Westeros hated Aerys and wanted to see him dead, when that wasn't the case at all. He angered some of the most powerful families and was overthrown as a result, that's it.I suspect that the opinions of commoners were probably colored by the relations of their overlords with the Iron Throne. The Kingswood Brotherhood benefitted from substantial help from common people right in Aerys's own backyard, until Arthur Dayne convinced Aerys that he could isolate the Brotherhood by treating the smallfolk more humanely.And the point stands that Aerys had a cruel streak and would've killed as many inhabitants of King's Landing as possible had Jaime not intervened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Ser Barristans boldness is entirely physical. Emotionally and morally, he is a craven. There is another character like that - King Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 just to be a little pricky... but we are not 100% sure if Aerys killed the rickstark and his heir for sportRight, Brandon and Rickard went to KL with Brandon calling out the crowned prince to come out and die. Which, IMHO, wasn't the smartest thing to do being that Aerys was known as the Mad King. If Lyanna were kidnapped, maybe level headed negotiations with the Hand of the King might have saved lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damar Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The reason why Rickard was in his armor in the first place was because they agreed to a trial by champion over the life of Brandon with Rickard expecting to fight one of the Kingsguard...and Aerys instead chose fire as his champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern light Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Aerys didn't "kill countless people". In fact, there are some among the smallfolk who remember his reign fondly and there's no indication he was considered a terrible king by most people.True. But he surely intended to do so....anyway he was still a nut job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Barriston does tell her basic truths he just sugarcoats them like when he spoke of Rhaegar/Elia and Aerys/Rhaella. Dany just doesn't know the details of the rebellion."Your father always had a little madness in him, I now believe. Yet he was charming and generous as well, so his lapses were forgiven. His reign began with promise...but as the years passed, the lapses grew more frequent, until..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Barriston does tell her basic truths he just sugarcoats them like when he spoke of Rhaegar/Elia and Aerys/Rhaella. Dany just doesn't know the details of the rebellion.Your quote is where I really see the similarities between Henry VI and Aerys. Henry VI had a mental breakdown as an adult and had long stretches where he was, to use the technical term, nuttier than squirrel poo. He wasn't sadistic like Aerys, but the mental imbalance is present in both of them. Henry also had a habit of playing favorites, promoting people who didn't deserve it, alienating his nobles (though not by executing them) and generally just being way in over his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bronn Stokeworth Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 just to be a little pricky... but we are not 100% sure if Aerys killed the rickstark and his heir for sportRegardless of his reasons, the deaths were dirty and unjust.Rickard demanded trial by combat and was burned alive. Using "fire" as your champion goes against the Westeros justice *system.Brandon was put in a device that choked him to death. The only way he would have survive was to relax and watch his father suffer a horrifying death.*While I certainly agree that the Westeros system can hardly be called just, it still is a tad more just than setting the opposing side on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I think that part of the reason Barristan won't say anything is because it puts complete doubt over the idea of a kingsguard. He stood by and let Aerys burn innocent people, and made no effort to stop him from raping his wife. Barristan is a very weak man.And obviously Martin doesn't want Daenerys to know the truth yet, anyway. And when Barristan attempts to tell her some of this stuff, she changes the subject or ignores him or says she doesn't want to hear it. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make her drink. I don't remember this. Have you got a quote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melpomene Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Gotta be honest, I'm one of those people that wished Dany was told more about her father. Didn't have to be detailed, long or everything immediately covered on the spot or anything, just *something*.For me, it's just a matter of basicly educating herself more about Westeros. If she understood more about Westerosi laws, understood how previous nobles felt about past Targ rule, how court life worked, how her father succeeded and failed, she might be more prepared in the long run. She will know what to expect if/when she returns, and will know how to handle the situation better.It just wouldn't seem right if she appeared and said:Dany: Hi! Now, I know everyone here LOVED my father.Westerosi Population: ............Dany: and how he was a perfectly capable and great ruler, especially towards the end.Westerosi Population: :stunned:Dany: Worry not, for I shall follow in his footsteps!Westerosi Population: :excl: :excl: :excl:*shrugs* I dunno, perhaps it is just me, but I feel like if she walks in blindly, people would think she was a fool for not understanding some things, or feel worried. If she learned, perhaps instead she can say along the lines of "I know what happened, but it's alright, I'm not like that - and I'll prove it" or however.I personally wouldn't want to be ignorant about something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I don't remember this. Have you got a quote?My book's not on me, but it's pretty clear that Dany has a habit of being in denial over what her family's done. For someone who thinks she's going to rule Westeros, she doesn't seem terribly interested in knowing that much about it. Superficial things like, say, jousting and knights don't count. She's liable to land somewhere and have absolutely no clue how to make use of or approach the political climate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
master Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I personally think that selmy isn't supposed to tell her about her father. thats jaime's job.I can just imagine it now.selmy: what are you doing here traitorjaime: me a traitor. what were you doing after the tridentdany: answer to your crimesjaime: you know, I was standing guard the night you were concoeved. your mother was screaming. and it wasn't your fathers name. wanna know what she said.dany: whatjaime: stop it you hurting me,. wanna know what dayn saidetc.etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noimporta Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Barristan stood by while Aerys, Robert and Joffrey did their thing, with a token objection now and then, it doesn't seem so atypical of him to stand by while Dany does her thing either. The most interesting part of his story in ADWD is when, at the absence of his queen, he finally decides to take matters on his own hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Barristan stood by while Aerys, Robert and Joffrey did their thing, with a token objection now and then, it doesn't seem so atypical of him to stand by while Dany does her thing either. The most interesting part of his story in ADWD is when, at the absence of his queen, he finally decides to take matters on his own hands.Yep. Something tells me he's the one who's actually going to clean up the Meereenese mess, not her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evamitchelle Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I don't remember this. Have you got a quote?In her last chapter in Storm Barristan explains that he didn't reveal himself to her at once because he wanted to see if she was mad like her father, but she tells him that The Mad King is a lie the Usurper made up. A little later Barristan asks her if she has more questions for him, she asks him if her father was truly mad but she stops him before he can really say anything. There are other instances in ASoS when Arstan brings up her father's "madness" and she tells him that it's not wise to make an enemy of the king. In ADwD as well he tries to tell her that Ned was a good man because he opposed her assassination attempt and resigned over it but she replies that he was a traitor and deserved a traitor's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavosBolton Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Barristan has too much tact to say it so bluntly. And he planned on telling Dany about both the good and the bad of her father. But just plain mocking Aerys would not achieve anything productive, so he would never do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 In her last chapter in Storm Barristan explains that he didn't reveal himself to her at once because he wanted to see if she was mad like her father, but she tells him that The Mad King is a lie the Usurper made up. A little later Barristan asks her if she has more questions for him, she asks him if her father was truly mad but she stops him before he can really say anything.There are other instances in ASoS when Arstan brings up her father's "madness" and she tells him that it's not wise to make an enemy of the king. In ADwD as well he tries to tell her that Ned was a good man because he opposed her assassination attempt and resigned over it but she replies that he was a traitor and deserved a traitor's death.Thanks. My dad's reading my copies of the later books now (coincidentally, he too thinks Dany's turned into an annoying pill) so I couldn't look anything specific up, but I knew there were at least a few instances of Barristan trying to tell her something and her shooting him down or ignoring him or telling him she doesn't want to hear it.ETA: Here's the line from the Storm of Swords:[barristan tells Dany he wanted to make sure she wasn't nutso, and says that Viserys was his father's son.]"His father's son?" Dany frowned. "What does that mean?"The old knight did not blink. "Your father is called 'the Mad King' in Westeros. Has no one ever told you?""Viserys did." The Mad King. "The Usurper called him that, the Usurper and his dogs." The Mad King. "it was a lie.""Why ask for truth," Ser Barristan said softly, "if you close your ears to it?"So there you go, a solid instance of Dany writing off Barristan telling her flat-out what her father was and Barristan calling her on it. In her defense, she decides to keep him around partly to tell her about Westeros, but she doesn't seem to act on this. She wants to know "where she came from," but only if it's the blowing-sunshine-up-the-ass version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bronn Stokeworth Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 My book's not on me, but it's pretty clear that Dany has a habit of being in denial over what her family's done. For someone who thinks she's going to rule Westeros, she doesn't seem terribly interested in knowing that much about it. Superficial things like, say, jousting and knights don't count. She's liable to land somewhere and have absolutely no clue how to make use of or approach the political climate.This is why I'm on the fence about whether I think Dany will be a hero or not. I mean would you consider the daughter of the Mad King who comes back to claim the throne with an army made foreigners (many of whom consider her some sort of goddess with the whole "Mother" thing that she actively encourages) and has no real care about Westeros values or correcting her family's mistakes? None of that would say noble ruler to the people of Westeros. Or even a stable one.I forget. Do we have much on Aegon's opinion of the his grandfather and those who oppose him? I kinda blazed through DWD, so I don't remember 100%. If we don't I'm really curious where he stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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