Catelyn: A hugely misunderstood character!

[brashcandy]

Robb looked relieved, smiled at Jon and said "Good". This doesn't look like someone who doesn't believe what his brother just told him.

He believes it, but he's relieved because he was probably expecting to hear that she was nasty given what he knows are her feelings towards Jon. In reality, what he really suspected was the truth: Catelyn had been nasty, but Jon chooses to not place more burden on Robb.

[LOBROD]

....What? :stillsick:

Jon wanting to go to the Wall had very little to do with Catelyn, this is an assumption that you (and many other posters) have done with little or no facts to back it up. Catelyn not being 'motherly' to him being used as an excuse, Jon's acknowledgment of being a bastard cannot solely lie at Catelyn's feet for not being 'motherly' enough at him. Regardless of what she felt, society would still see him as a bastard.

ah no if you look back at my posts about this there is plenty of evidence that she wanted rid of him and thought badly of him for no better reason than the fact of his existance.

I never believied that she should be tucking him in at night with cuddles but her sustained dislike, even as her childern grew up with him, loving him as a brother showed her unreasonable predjuice against him.

Jon already knew what his place was and that as a bastard what his expectations could be. he did not need the constant reminder.

I think she took the easier option and instead of giving Ned hell, she took it out on jon.

[David Selig]

If Jon went to the Wall and thus decided his whole future because Catelyn gave him him mean looks, he's even dumber than I already consider him to be.

[ElizaMartell]

ah no if you look back at my posts about this there is plenty of evidence that she wanted rid of him and thought badly of him for no better reason than the fact of his existance.

I never believied that she should be tucking him in at night with cuddles but her sustained dislike, even as her childern grew up with him, loving him as a brother showed her unreasonable predjuice against him.

Jon already knew what his place was and that as a bastard what his expectations could be. he did not need the constant reminder.

I think she took the easier option and instead of giving Ned hell, she took it out on jon.

How is not liking someone unbelivable prejudice? She was uncomfortabel with his presence and had to live with it. Its not like she signed him off to the Nights Watch as soon as he turned 13. Jon being reminded was a Bastard logically has very little with Catelyn not liking to him.

And again, it seems most of this criticisms appear to be what you assume has happened between Catelyn and Jon instead of what has been shown/implied and clarified by GRRM.

He believes it, but he's relieved because he was probably expecting to hear that she was nasty given what he knows are her feelings towards Jon. In reality, what he really suspected was the truth: Catelyn had been nasty, but Jon chooses to not place more burden on Robb.

And again, not loving the fan favourite doesn't equal evilness/cruelty/child abuse/nastiness. Its human. Catelyn's 'nastiness' sums up to her ignoring and being uncomfortable around Jon. Goodness me.

[LOBROD]

she could have "lived with it" with a bit more grace and made her life a bit easier.

Can you accept at least that It was HER problem that she was uncomfortable with him and not through any fault of Jons. there is no reference to him causing any trouble within the family or his personality or manner being anything but what would be expected of a child of Winterfell.

therr is nothing Jon could have done to please her but to go away.

I am not assuming anything I have quoted are from both Jons POV chapters and Catelyns.

How is not liking someone unbelivable prejudice? She was uncomfortabel with his presence and had to live with it. Its not like she signed him off to the Nights Watch as soon as he turned 13. Jon being reminded was a Bastard logically has very little with Catelyn not liking to him.

And again, it seems most of this criticisms appear to be what you assume has happened between Catelyn and Jon instead of what has been shown/implied and clarified by GRRM.

And again, not loving the fan favourite doesn't equal evilness/cruelty/child abuse/nastiness. Its human. Catelyn's 'nastiness' sums up to her ignoring and being uncomfrotable around Jon. Goodness me.

[LOBROD]

If Jon went to the Wall and thus decided his whole future because Catelyn gave him him mean looks, he's even dumber than I already consider him to be.

I never said i liked Jon, he is a bit of a moaner. I am just focusing on Catelyn now

[Ghost Rider]

At the feast, Jon specifically asked Benjen to take him with him when he went back to the Wall.

But Jon wanted to go to the Wall. Catelyn wasn't the one who introduced the idea, it was Jon himself. And when people like Benjen advised him to think toherwise he still wanted to go. This has nothing to do with Catelyn secretly scheming to get Jon away and nore is it spiteful. Jon himself wanted to go so how is it spiteful that he got what he wanted? It wasn't Catelyn scheming to get him away.

Yes, I never claimed otherwise. I said he didn't really want to go:

"Take me with you when you go back to the Wall," Jon said in a sudden rush. "Father will give me leave to go if you ask him, I know he will."

Note the "sudden rush", this is a spur of the moment decision. When he reflects on it, he basically thinks that he has no other choice but to leave, because Winterfell is no home to him. (Thanks to who, I wonder?) That Jon didn't really relish the prospect is also shown in the following Bran chapter where Bran notes that Jon's in a very bad mood and not the best company atm. (thus he decides to go off climbing, oh well...)

Catelyn wasn't scheming, but she was a huge factor that compelled Jon to make this decision. And he didn't even know then that his father would be leaving.

I agree that Jon didn't really know what he was getting into, but I think it's clear it's something he wanted to do.

He obviously wanted something quite different: An place where he could fight for the good of the realm, where he could apply his abilities, where he would be accepted and honoured, excitement and adventure. Surely that doesn't describe the NW!

The dwarf comment is completely unfair. Cat didn't arrest him because he was an "evil dwarf" she arrested him because the evidence she had pointed towards him (evidence given to her by the man who used to be so in love with her he fought a duel with a man twice his size and quite a few years older). But though Tyrion gave her some doubts I really don't see how "I didn't do it because I'm not stupid" goes very far to convince her of his innocence.

Cat herself had her doubts concerning Tyrion's guilt. She wasn't convinced of his innocence because he was such a fitting suspect. Else you have the word of Littlefinger claiming something (that could be checked btw, why didn't they?) against the word of Tyrion claiming something else, but his argument made sense from the logical POV. I'd think siding with caution would be the best choice of action here, not boldly going with the initial plan.