TrueMetis Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Well, my only problem is that 8000 years ago there was no Valyrian steel in Westeros. I don't think its impossible though, but I find it hard to believe.My guess would be dragonbone, but I see the point others have made (like its hard to forge or you dont make a sword from a material that is used to make bows).And there is another question: were there any dragons in Westeros 8000 years or more ago? Mayhaps.BTW, Arya compares the dragonteeth to sharp swords and daggers in AGOT. Maybe the dragonsteel sword was nothing but a tooth with a handle.That's cause Valyria didn't exist back than, that doesn't mean the technique to make it wasn't known though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Know Face Man Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Does anyone know when the first Valyrian Steel sword was made.I think the oldest one i can remember was Ice 400 years and Longclaw 500I could be wrong.But if we dont know how long Valyrian Steel has been made we cant say for sure it isn't Dragon Steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaylee Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 My personal problem with "dragonsteel" is that it seems to predate not only Valyria, but also steel. Or even iron. How could the First Men call something "dragonsteel" if they didn't have a word for steel?Perhaps this word is in fact much younger and the original "dragonsteel" had absolutely nothing to do with steel. But it might have had something to do with dragons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rydis2 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 guys we are thinking about this all wrong. What if Valaryian steel is actually Dragonsteel? and not the other way around. It would appear that Valaryia had it first..only because of how old the information is compared to what they know. I mean..they know virtually nothing of dragons..that only died out but a mere few hundred years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Dragonsteel is a term for weapons forged with dragon fire. Just like dragonglass (obsidian) are made in a volcano (were dragons live). I believe that GRRM has given a magical aspect to obsidian in the sense that because it was created by dragon fire, it retained some magical properties which allows it to be harmful to the Others, or to burn.Though the Others don't like normal fire, it doesn't kill them like obsidian does, and thus regular swords have no effect on them. But swords forged in dragon fire do. And Valyrian steel qualifies.I also have a theory that if one were to light a Valyrian steel sword on fire, it would not damage the steel. In fact, the magic in the steel will sustain the fire for much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I don't see why its so hard to believe Dragonsteel is Valyrian Steel.Other than the fact that the Long Night precedes the development of Valyrian steel (or at least, the steel that the Valyrians themselves used; like Catastrophe suggested, someone else might have figured out the method) by like three thousand years?Valyria emerged as a power something like, what, five thousand-ish years ago. Even if you accept some fudging in the dates, the Long Night was way, way before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Lady Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Hrm...I always assumed dragonsteel was forged using dragonfire, whereas for "normal" valyrian steel they used spells and a special style of folding the metal, not necessarily dragonflame. The term dragonsteel could simply have been "renamed" after the Valyrians cultivated the technique, or refer to the valyrian blades that were forged in dragonfire.But where would the needed dragons have come from before that? IIRC nobody tamed dragons before the Valyrian empire, but I see now that the Long Night where that dragonsteel would have been used was looong before that! The timeline of this series is making me nuts. Somebody warging dragons? :D One more thing to throw on the questions-that-need-answering pile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marclee Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Would you use material that's good for a bow to make a sword? They require traits that would be the polar opposite of what you would want in the other weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Winterfell Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I wonder what metal the Others' fancy looking swords were forged with, or was it just ice? Also does anyone think their own weapons could kill them (ie. can they kill each other? Or if someone killed one and took its sword, could that person then kill the other Others?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You know what an alloy is yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladywhiskers Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I always figured the two were related, perhaps dragons are involved with the forging of Valyarian steel. Maybe dragonsteel is an archaic name for Valyarian steel, forged in a similar fashion, and the Valaryians just popularized or became known for it much later do their name was used instead.The 1000 year old documents make reference to dragonglass too right? So whoever wrote it must've known about dragons, maybe there were some beyond the wall way back when.I always assumed that dragonsteel and Valyrian steel were the same thing, and that they were forged in dragon fire, perhaps combining some alloys that wouldn't be possible to forge without the extreme heat dragons can deliver. Maybe the red color even comes from adding some dragon blood to the mix.Same with dragon glass. I just assumed that it's the same as obsidian only with dragon's fire instead of volcanic fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Tobi Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You know what an alloy is yes?What TruMetis want to say is:crossbows are made of Spring Steel, while Swords are made of tempered carbon steel.although both substances have "steel" in their name, their characteristics are as different as wood and glassif you can carve s.th. aut of dragonbone you can´t make a sword out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always_En_Garde Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Perhaps dragonbone is the secret of Valyrian steel? After all the Valyrians had access to a great number of dragon bones back in Ye Olde Country; it makes sense that they would find ways to make use of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rydis2 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hrm...I always assumed dragonsteel was forged using dragonfire, whereas for "normal" valyrian steel they used spells and a special style of folding the metal, not necessarily dragonflame. The term dragonsteel could simply have been "renamed" after the Valyrians cultivated the technique, or refer to the valyrian blades that were forged in dragonfire.But where would the needed dragons have come from before that? IIRC nobody tamed dragons before the Valyrian empire, but I see now that the Long Night where that dragonsteel would have been used was looong before that! The timeline of this series is making me nuts. Somebody warging dragons? :DOne more thing to throw on the questions-that-need-answering pile.Maybe it wasn't. Maybe it was just created by volcanic activity. Others can die by normal fire (as seen when Jon did this) so it makes sense that the glass made from fire would work as well (in that fantasy sense). The CotF had obsidian which it gave the NW, which means there is volcanic activity going on beyond the wall (maybe this is what happened to Hardhome). Has there been any descriptions outside of Valayria about volcanoes in the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuron Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Maybe it wasn't. Maybe it was just created by volcanic activity. Others can die by normal fire (as seen when Jon did this) so it makes sense that the glass made from fire would work as well (in that fantasy sense). The CotF had obsidian which it gave the NW, which means there is volcanic activity going on beyond the wall (maybe this is what happened to Hardhome). Has there been any descriptions outside of Valayria about volcanoes in the world?I don't remember an Other every being killed by normal fire. Is my memory shot or were you thinking of Wights?I had a thought once that Dragonsteel was a sword that had flame properties, like Lightbringer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Lady Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Others can die by normal fire (as seen when Jon did this) I think you are confusing Others with wights, the thing Jon killed was a reanimated corpse, a wight.The CotF had obsidian which it gave the NW, which means there is volcanic activity going on beyond the wall (maybe this is what happened to Hardhome). Has there been any descriptions outside of Valayria about volcanoes in the world?Thats what I think too, Hardhome was destroyed by a volcanic eruption(?), a bit like the doom of Valyria (although other events might have played a part there too). And I don't recall any talk of volcanoes either.So I did some more thinking, and I think it might be posible that dragonsteel is made of dragonbone. Not carved, but forged. Their bones contain a high percentage of iron, maybe the bones could be melted somehow to use the iron like the normal stuff. The "magic" of the dragons could still have been in there somehow, making it a very strong weapon.I know, sounds impossible, but we are talking about dragons after all :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtwebster Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What if more extreme heat was required for the creation of Valyrian steel - of a temperature only found in dragon fire, or volcanic sources.I think reforging existing Valyrian steel, while difficult, could be accomplished at lower temperatures (i.e. Ice). In metallurgy, steel can be 'worked' and its properties changed at much lower temperatures than those needed to actually melt and homogenize component metals to create the 'alloy'. This ability is currently lost in the realm due to lack of dragons, no volcanic activity (other than that which ultimately destroyed Valyria?) Could this have been what caused their doom - delving too deep for some precious components?Would be a bit of a nod to Lord of the Rings, sort of a combination of Moria/Mount Doom - If I recall the one ring could only be unmade/melted in the cracks of Doom or by Dragonfire.I tend to think dragon steel and Valyrian steel are one in the same, for these reasons - the naming is different because of different historical sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rydis2 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I don't remember an Other every being killed by normal fire. Is my memory shot or were you thinking of Wights?I had a thought once that Dragonsteel was a sword that had flame properties, like Lightbringer.You are correct, i was thinking wight. We haven't seen any others yet that I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev yn Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You are correct, i was thinking wight. We haven't seen any others yet that I recall.Prologue of A Game of Thrones. It has both Others and a wight (possibly several wights, but we only see the one actually moving). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rydis2 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Prologue of A Game of Thrones. It has both Others and a wight (possibly several wights, but we only see the one actually moving).Really? I was under the impression those were just wights also. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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