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Edmure's child


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I was wondering. Edmure is legally married to Roslin Frey. And she might be carrying his son.

We all hope that in the end Riverrun will be run by Tullys again. But think if at that time Edmure will in fact have a son with a woman who was in on the plot to murder his family. Do you think he could/would set that son aside or a Frey will ultimately be the heir of Riverrun?

That would be just not right.

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We all hope that in the end Riverrun will be run by Tullys again. But think if at that time Edmure will in fact have a son with a woman who was in on the plot to murder his family. Do you think he could/would set that son aside or a Frey will ultimately be the heir of Winterfell?

You mean Riverrun? Edmure has no claim at all to Winterfell, so no child of his would ever inherit. It'd go to the Karstarks or some other cadet branch.

This conundrum is kind of the reason why I think that Roslin and the baby, sad as it might be, won't make it. I think Riverrun will end up in Sansa's hands.

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You mean Riverrun?

Uhr. Thank you. Edited that. I probably would be more OK with Roslin and the baby not making it than that baby becoming the lord of Riverrun. All the Frey blood I want to see there is spilled blood. I never quite thought about this situation in great detail. Just wished all the Freys would become pies. But then the next step would be for Edmure to come back and possibly suffer to see how he must put up with his "wife and heir". Maybe someone has any ideas how that could work out. Is it possible to just set Roslin aside?

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From the perspective of common sense and not the I hate-perspective I would say that Edmure should not distance himself from Roslin for several reasons. The number one is that since the Blackfish is refusing to have any kids it falls to Edmure to ensure that the Tully line continues and then casting away the presence chance for a kid in the hope of a dramatic change of fortune seems like a stupied risk and its better to play safe as he's not likely to be allowed to marry someone else in the near future. Furthermore that while Roslin comes from a family that are not well regarded right now they do still have power and that fact could work against the possibility of something sneaky happening to a prespective heir to Riverrun of Tully stock.

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I am personally hoping that the Frey's find themselves dispossessed by whatever King/Queen takes the Iron Throne just as the Tully's were by the Lannister pretender.

Technically the Tully’s being booted out of Riverrun and everything else the Lannisters decreed is illegal because Joff and Tommen are nowhere in the line of paternal succession, they are pretenders. Cersei had a claim by marriage to hold regency but she conspired to kill Robert she knows full well her children do not have any right to the throne unless Lannister interests can keep a grip on where they are.

The fall of Lannister is going to be a beautiful moment when whoever takes over does, no line of succession and treason is such a neat and tidy argument that allows the slate to be wiped clean just like Robert Baratheon did (albeit he missed two or three Targaryen heirs).

Unfortunately the fact the Lannisters possess the Iron Throne has helped them mask the lie about Cersei’s kids and makes everything they do legal! (For the moment) Absolute monarchy is a pain in the arse like that – if everyone had their shit together and done things legally and were not interested in treason they would have supported Stannis and there would have been no room for Cersei to hide her secret and gain support from anywhere.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. Oh Renly you douchebag, you should have installed Stannis then poisoned his arse or sent him boar hunting rather than run off like you did like a douchebag. :rolleyes:

Edmure should be able to do the same with Roslin, the fact that the wedding and the rest happened was treason against the Iron Throne.

Again, everything hinges on who wins and who dies…. Anyway I am rambling… :)

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From the perspective of common sense and not the I hate-perspective I would say that Edmure should not distance himself from Roslin for several reasons. The number one is that since the Blackfish is refusing to have any kids it falls to Edmure to ensure that the Tully line continues and then casting away the presence chance for a kid in the hope of a dramatic change of fortune seems like a stupied risk and its better to play safe as he's not likely to be allowed to marry someone else in the near future. Furthermore that while Roslin comes from a family that are not well regarded right now they do still have power and that fact could work against the possibility of something sneaky happening to a prespective heir to Riverrun of Tully stock.

I guess Edmure needs to wait out the Lannisters and keep Roslin and his heir sweet.

If he escapes he needs Roslin to die ASAP so that he can remarry a non-Frey ASAP. and after said non-Frey has produced a male heir Edmure needs to cause Roslin's child if male, to become a Maester or Septon, whilst a female child can simply be married off.

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I guess Edmure needs to wait out the Lannisters and keep Roslin and his heir sweet.

If he escapes he needs Roslin to die ASAP so that he can remarry a non-Frey ASAP. and after said non-Frey has produced a male heir Edmure needs to cause Roslin's child if male, to become a Maester or Septon, whilst a female child can simply be married off.

:( poor old Roz, I feel bad for her. It is death or being set aside for her................. unless, Edmure petitions the Crown for the Twins to go to Roslin as Regent it will then pass to their second born son effectively putting the Twin's in Tully hands. This protects Roslin and all her children. It will fix the Frey problem whilst serving as a lesson to the rest.

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I guess Edmure needs to wait out the Lannisters and keep Roslin and his heir sweet.

If he escapes he needs Roslin to die ASAP so that he can remarry a non-Frey ASAP. and after said non-Frey has produced a male heir Edmure needs to cause Roslin's child if male, to become a Maester or Septon, whilst a female child can simply be married off.

It warms my heart to know there are such humaniterians among us. I'd say give Roslin a break because she hasn't made anything to warrent such hostility toward her.

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It warms my heart to know there are such humaniterians among us. I'd say give Roslin a break because she hasn't made anything to warrent such hostility toward her.

Roslin is not an individual.

She is a member of a clan that murdered Edmure's sister, and deprived Edmure of his lordship in a base act of trickery. Which she knew of btw.

So whilst Roslin is personally a nice person, she is not a suitable wife to the Lord of Riverrun and her son is not suitable for future lord of Riverrun.

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I don't think Edmure has it in his heart to do anything bad against Roslin(I liked the girl despite her family). I'm afraid that if she has a boy, the Lannisters might kill him, while a girl would save the day and give poor Edmure a break. But that's not how GRRM writes... If they should survive the war(Edmure, Roslin and possible babyboy) and placed in Riverrun... well, we might have to live with a frey heir(he IS part Tully btw).

My solution for Edmure would be to lock her up in a tower, so the world can see that she is punished, but at the same time be kind to her. Edmure would probably have her give him heirs and not allow the children to see their mother very often, so no one could say that they'd grow up to become Frey's...

I think Edmure would be devastated if anything happened to Roslin and the baby... it's the only thing he has left at the moment :crying:

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Roslin is not an individual.

Thats BS and you know it as well as I do.

She is a member of a clan that murdered Edmure's sister, and deprived Edmure of his lordship in a base act of trickery. Which she knew of btw.

So whilst Roslin is personally a nice person, she is not a suitable wife to the Lord of Riverrun and her son is not suitable for future lord of Riverrun.

I'm sorry but I do not accept guilt by association or by family. As regarding to her role in the actual RW my view of it is that it was trivial that it had very little importance and that she doubtless were under severe stress to do it. Thus being guily by association is for my no basis to say that someone deserves to die and we cannot say anything about her offsprings possible suitability or not. Remember Boltons? Most people tend to think very low about Roose yet his son with Ryswell seems to have been a very likeable sort of person. Don't be so fast to judge people based on their parents.

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We all hope that in the end Riverrun will be run by Tullys again.

Well, I personally am very careful in having high hopes for an outcome that tastes as just and that fits in sympathies one might have. Didn't GRRM say the ending of the cycle could be seen as 'bittersweet'?

Sometimes my skin crawls at what sometimes is said on this forum about Roslin. Some find her and her child not fit to live because she was born in House Frey.

There is reference in the text that she didn't know or condoned what happened.

As a female she would not have had a say in what happened one way or the other. To me it seems not just to blame her or think she is evil or bad because of her 'blood'.

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So whilst Roslin is personally a nice person, she is not a suitable wife to the Lord of Riverrun and her son is not suitable for future lord of Riverrun.

I don't know how you can make an assumption on an unborn child based on the family of its mother. It would be a Tully, you don't call Edmure half Tully (he has a mother you know, a quater Tully (his father has a mother) or...). He would be 100% Tully. Don't forget also your implying they have a similar understanding of blood and genetics in westerosi society as we do today. You know half comes from mother, half from father. I'm not sure about the middle ages but I know in Roman society they belived the spirit of the ancesters flowed through the name so you would look and be like your father because you had his name. They believed adopted children would take on the adopted fathers traits once they took his name also.

In any case I would have thought having been born or the two principle families of the Riverlands would have made this child perfect to rule them.

n.b. I hate the Freys as much as the next person, but I don't consider this child to be a Frey. I suspect the child will be a boy and Rosilin will die protecting him from a Frey attack, perhaps thats a bit to obvious a redemption storyline for GRRM.

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I don't know how you can make an assumption on an unborn child based on the family of its mother. It would be a Tully, you don't call Edmure half Tully (he has a mother you know, a quater Tully (his father has a mother) or...). He would be 100% Tully. Don't forget also your implying they have a similar understanding of blood and genetics in westerosi society as we do today. You know half comes from mother, half from father. I'm not sure about the middle ages but I know in Roman society they belived the spirit of the ancesters flowed through the name so you would look and be like your father because you had his name. They believed adopted children would take on the adopted fathers traits once they took his name also.

:agree:

They think that the father plants the seed in the woman, and that the child is only his. The woman is like an oven, put the bread in and it gets baked

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Thats BS and you know it as well as I do.

I'm sorry but I do not accept guilt by association or by family. As regarding to her role in the actual RW my view of it is that it was trivial that it had very little importance and that she doubtless were under severe stress to do it. Thus being guily by association is for my no basis to say that someone deserves to die and we cannot say anything about her offsprings possible suitability or not. Remember Boltons? Most people tend to think very low about Roose yet his son with Ryswell seems to have been a very likeable sort of person. Don't be so fast to judge people based on their parents.

Roslin is not guilty by association, but as an accessory. She knew what was coming, and she kept silent. She had no say at all in what was going to happen, but they had obviously briefed her and she was terrified of what was about to happen. I do think that even if she had whispered to Edmure about what was going to take place, it would not have saved anyone. It's not really her fault that her family decided to use her wedding as a way to ambush the Starks.

I agree she should be locked in a tower for a time, for the sake of public opinion, but not forever, and he should treat her kindly. It's not her fault her family are creeps. They, not Roslin and not the baby, are the ones who should be punished for what happened. Roslin is the mother of his child, his legitimate heir. Edmure agreed to that wedding, and he was happy enough to have Roslin. As for a half-Frey inheriting Riverrun, well, that's how this feudalism stuff works.

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Roslin is not guilty by association, but as an accessory. She knew what was coming, and she kept silent. I cut her some slack because she was obviously terrified. I agree she should be locked in a tower for a time, for the sake of public opinion, but not forever, and he should treat her kindly. It's not her fault her family are creeps. And she is the mother of his child. As for a half-Frey inheriting Riverrun, well, that's how this stuff works.

I must have missed that. She was nervous, I recall. Can you refer me to bits in the text where it said she knew there would be murder?

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That's a good point Lady Whiskers: Roslin is an accessory. She could have tried to warn Edmure etc, in fact anyone who didn't agree to the plans could have, which makes all the Frey women involved accessories. Even if Roslin was forced to go along with the plans, it doesn't mean that the other Frey women weren't happy to go along with it.

Being terrified is a mitigating circumstance, but you are still guilty of being an accessory to a crime. The child though is guilty of nothing, but given the culture of Westeros and the ideas of good and bad blood, it could well mean that the child would be disliked no matter what they did.

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The child though is guilty of nothing, but given the culture of Westeros and the ideas of good and bad blood, it could well mean that the child would be disliked no matter what they did.

People tend to forget who the mother is in a society like that, but I agree to the fact that the child will probably encounter people, who won't be able to look past his Frey blood and people who might even think the child evil or tainted, since it was concieved during the red wedding while it's kin was being slaughtered :(

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